Crate Rant!

k9krazee · Dec 8, 2013

I know the sorts that the OP is talking about.

I have a friend who has a Viszla pup and instead of teaching him not to lose his mind when friends come over she crates him. At that point it's an unnecessary training crutch.

I don't have a problem with crates during the day when you're at work or gone, as long as the dog is kept adequately stimulated & exercised during it's out times.

sassafras · Dec 8, 2013

But you know, even that... if someone doesn't care to train their dog not to go nuts when people come over and the dog has something to do in the crate and otherwise gets stimulation and exercise, I honestly don't think it's the worst thing in the world to crate for an evening instead unless they're having people over constantly and the dog is crated all night every night. It's not what I would do, but I don't think it's horrible. There are lots of things I don't care to teach or am not personally capable of teaching that other people probably think are "necessary" and I'm using crutches for. *shrug*

Opal · Dec 8, 2013

I suppose a lot of it comes down to whether or not you're happy with your dog and the relationship you've formed. As long as we're not talking about a public safety liability, why does it matter if other people don't find your dogs level of training acceptable? The kind of person I had in mind when I made the post, would likely not say they were satisfied with their dog or it's behavior - hence why it HAS to stay in the crate unless they're "working with it", or it's out in the yard. For these people (who are not at all satisfied with their dogs), I believe a good portion of the time, excessive crating helped contribute to the dogs undesirable, behavior. What's kind of ironic, is when they contact a professional (because yes, really they're NOT happy with their crazy puppy and have no freaking clue how he ended up like this), said professional would likely recommend the puppy be crated for it's safety and to prevent the reinforcement of undesirable behavior, until they could establish foundation skills and encourage meaningful interaction between dog and human. It's kind of a whacky sycnronicity....a cycle, of sorts.

I guess it's one of those case-by-case kinda dealio's ...

Taqroy · Dec 9, 2013

k9krazee said:

I obviously don't know your friend, but I often crate my dogs when company comes over. Because they do lose their minds a little bit and they can be incredibly rude. And sometimes the people coming over are not dog people and I don't trust them with the dogs. I suppose in this scenario I do use crates as a crutch because I'd rather enjoy our company than actually train my dogs when we rarely have people over. /shrug

For the main topic of this thread - I've never seen or heard of a regular pet owner overusing their crate the way it's being described here. I see a lot more people leaving their dogs chained outside, letting their dogs door dash, letting their aggressive dogs roam around, etc. On the scale of things I worry about it doesn't even register.

sassafras · Dec 9, 2013

Taqroy said:

Yea I usually leash mine until they settle down (which honestly sometimes is never) which is essentially the same thing as crating. Our location relative to our friends' and size of our home make it an inconvenient gathering place so we have company at our house very, very rarely and have few opportunities to practice nor is that how I want to spend my time. So I get it even in scenarios where something could be trained but people choose to manage.

Emily · Dec 9, 2013

Meh, I crate Blossom when people come over, generally speaking, for everyone's safety. She is what she is. We can make introductions but that assumes willing visitors who have to be okay, initially, with a dog who though restrained/controlled, is acting very aggressively towards them. Not everybody is down with that. Like say, my Grandma. LOL.

So there are definitely times when she is crated, either at home or in her car kennel, because I don't find modifying her behavior to be practical or worthwhile.

Guard dog is guardy. Big shock. Management is part of having a dog like this. It can be a part of owning a dog with any particularly intense behaviors, even if they're merely intensely friendly.

release the hounds · Dec 9, 2013

show me your relationship with your dog, I'll tell you if it is healthy. I don't care if they have 20 hours or no hours in a crate per day it doesn't really matter.

I've had situations where dogs or puppies have been in crates for much longer than I'd care to have happen, yet here we are, all completely happy and healthy. I'd post about some of the time frames we've had, but I think some are clearly excited enough by this issue, I don't need to add to the angst.

sillysally · Dec 20, 2013

Actually, I used to work with a woman like this. The dog literally was crated pretty much all the time unless he was let out to go potty, which were breaks of only a couple of minutes a few times a day. According to the owner she just kept him in the crate so much because he was "stupid" and would "get into stuff." He was a 12 month old lab and the whole situation broke my heart. If it hadn't been for fear if Sally not liking with him I would have offered to buy him from her. I'm not against crating--Jack is crated for a 9 hour work day still--but I do think my coworker's situation was definitely over crating.

adojrts · Dec 20, 2013

Opal said:

But if your puppy has NO manners (because it's always in a crate), isn't housetrained AT ALL, unless it's immediately released outdoors (after being crated for hours) and is either too fat or too thin (because it has no opportunity to develop muscle tone, what with being locked in the crate all the time, and such) AND YOU HAVE BEEN CRATING IT FOR HOURS each day since you got it 4 months ago. Perhaps, maybe...just maybe, you're doing something wrong.

Sounds like a grossly under educated puppy owner or someone that shouldn't even have a dog to me. So crating isn't the problem.

What about fire?

I have multiple dogs and when I am not at home, my dogs are in one room, in crates, visible from a window and beside a door. For one simple reason, fire.

Save the dogs first, they can be easily seen, easily and quickly removed to safety, no hunting for them because they can't hide. No choice to hide or move away, when the scary breathing masked person approaches. And can't run away or be lost after being removed from the burning house.

I don't have one adult dog that can't be left uncrated and very seldom are they crated when we are at home. Including my youngster, although she is crated at least once daily when I am home because she needs to learn to be comfortable and quiet when I am at home.

Every tool out there for dogs can be used in an uneducated and/or abusive way. Including a simple flat collar and leash when it is used by angry, frustrated uneducated hands as a weapon.

Greenmagick · Dec 20, 2013

Actually, I have known of people who pretty much crate 24/7 and let out for potty breaks or training and thats it. A lot of families I knew growing up actually did this. Dog was crated all day for work/school. Let out for potty break and maybe a romp but was so exuberant and over the top because of being crated so often they would scare the kids so yep, back in the crate. Or I knew a trainer who only took his dog out to work her or compete. Im not ok with either of those situations.

To each their own I guess but yeah, I am NOT cool with that. Yep, I would rather a dog be outside than in a crate constantly (and I don't like dogs left outside generally speaking either). I had to crate longer than I liked when I had dogs when I was younger, for work etc. BUT, they then had a lot of quality time with me outside of crates.

I totally understand the OP. Some people DO use the crate as a crutch, or more of a place to stick a dog when they dont want to deal with it (which yes, is valid, I do it) but then they turn it into a default. The dog lives in the crate and spends some time out...it should be the dog lives in the house and spends some time crated.

Some people crate more than I like but they have safety reasons and work their butts off to give quality outside crate time. Cool. Others are just lazy and like the idea of owning a pet but dont want to do anything so they stick it in a crate..not cool

mrose_s · Dec 23, 2013

Australia is very much still behind the times with crate training. Ofcourse all dog people use them because they're AWESOME! But working at a pet training club, most people don't know what they are and when they find out, at first they think its mean. Until we show them all our dogs sound asleep in their crates lined up along the wall.

Quinn is crated most days, a lot of the time when I take her to work she's crated between 4 and 8 hours. No biggy, it just means she needs to stop somewhere for a good run on the way home.

I also used it when she was a puppy to calm her, when she would be getting herself in a tiz and unable to control herself I'd crate her. You could almost hear her sigh of relief.

Like everything, great tool. Use it correctly.

AllieMackie · Dec 23, 2013

Regarding OP's, well, OP...

It doesn't sound like you have a strong opinion on this subject. You came in with a strong CRATES AS ADULT R BAD argument, but then agreed with everyone using them responsibly for their adult dogs...?

They're like almost any other tool out there. Crates, prongs, flexis, etc... people have some strong opinions in both directions, but it always boils down to using the tool safely and in healthy ways for your dog.

My dog is five, active, healthy, happy and would be a mess if I removed his crate routines. It works for us. And many.

Crate Rant!

k9krazee

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sassafras

mushinois

Opal

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Taqroy

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sassafras

mushinois

Emily

Rollin' with my bitches

release the hounds

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sillysally

Obey the Toad.

adojrts

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Greenmagick

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mrose_s

BusterLove

AllieMackie

Wookie Collie

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