Luna's first puppy class

Kind of like you're doing to this trainer?

Sorry, but this sounds an awful lot like what you are doing with this current trainer - the not listening to advice part
Then why even mention the issue with corrections and the fact that she is an all positive trainer. Why not just talk about LUNA and not the trainer, the methods or having to explain things to Doug? If you don't want to debate methods, don't mention them, don't ya think?

LOL - just saw the above post - great minds huh?

Not in the least. They come to me with issues they want solved. I am not going to her for issues and I told her that. We are going there for socialization only. So we already know our method of training we are doing and already know it works and she is doing well with it. Her issue is socialization and that is why we are going and she was informed of that right from the beginning.

If she's snapping at other dogs, she has more issues than "just" socialization, JMO

Because part of her experience was that part of class. But hey good advice. I just won't post about her classes or training anymore. I will keep it to picture updates. I just want to be like others who post how their dogs are doing and get to talk about it and such without debates happening all the time. I am tired of all the debates. I am not going to change how I train because I know my methods are sound and work and have changed so many dogs lives in the many years I worked in foster working with abused dogs. With all the drama in my life working with dogs is the one thing I can count on to keep me sane because it is where I am the most confident. It is where I find the least amount of stress.

She snapped at 2 dogs both larger then her. It has to do with very little confidence because of lack of socalization for her first 3 months. She was on a farm where there was only 2 women and 2 young children and never left the farm. She was also the runt of a litter of nine and was beat up a lot by her litter mates. Her nose still carries the scares along with a few other places. We couldn;t have her to the dog park or so on till she had her shots(since she had none when we picked her up) so considering she has only once been to the dog park and then to one puppy class and has only reacted three times(once at a very rude boxer who would not stop harassing her) and then to the bigger dogs at class we see the issue and are working on it. She had no issue with almost all the dogs at the dog park. So for us it is not a serious issue. She has to learn confidence and manners and she is doing just that. For what she has been through, having worked with dogs with MUCH bigger issues, she is doing exceptionally well.

Why are you on a discussion forum if you don't like discussions? Why do you want to tell us about what you are doing if you don't want people to discuss what you are doing.

Are you simply looking for an audience, one that can't provide any input?

I make threads and people go off topic at times, so what? Its what normal conversations do. You mentioned she snapped at another dog. Which I would take as a young dog feeling insecure. So it because in part a discussion about how ignoring the problem and correcting the symptom can back fire.

If you are as confident as you keep claiming, why does it bother you when other discuss their experiences?

Umm socialization is about confidence. Dog reactivity is almost always due to lack of confidence/fear. So instead of telling her to shut up and take it, why not teach her to be calm and relaxed around other dogs? IME correcting a dog who is telling you they are scared only teaches them that you won't help them and they need to look after it themselves. (ie escalate)

Maybe a blog format or something would kind of be more what you want to accomplish with these threads?
I get the feeling you don't really want people to comment and a blog would be a great way to keep up with Lunas progress and have it all documented and stuff

Or maybe just having one single thread with ALL lunas updates. The many many update threads bring on the same kind of debates/comments/questions, if they were all in one spot I think it would be easier..

This!


Give this trainer a chance, I bet if you do, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
You need to teach her WHAT do do, instead of WHAT NOT to do...

Because every time I step up I get attacked for my position, or it gets twisted, or I get accused. Just like I would talk to my friends about Luna's training I don't do it to start a debate. I do it just to let people know how she is doing and so on. Just like when I talk about my kids. If I have questions or if I have a problem I can't solve then I ask for advice. But I didn't ask for advice. I post how she is doing and people immediately jump on it to tell me I am wrong or I should just listen like I have no experience at all.

Like I said I have had enough drama go on lately that I have no desire to debate anything. It has nothing to do with not being confident in my training style or methods. It has to do with having no desire to debate anything.

I said confidence. Over and over agian I said confidence. I know what reactitivity is casued by. I have worked with enough dogs in foster with huge issues to know that. And I also know how to work with it. When to ignore it, when to correct the reaction and also when to give support. I know if you do any of those at the wrong times that you can also do more harm then good so you have to be able to not only read what your dog is doing but also what the others dogs are saying as well so you can respond properly. That is why Luna has progressed so fast in so little time. I have had a huge throat inffection the past few days(was at the hospital last night) which is why she has not been back to the dog park. The more socialization she gets the more her confidence will grow.

^ Excatly

We're not the type of community to just read a post and go "oh good job Good Job " we like to discuss, offer advice, constructive criticism, and *gasp* sometimes just plain ole criticism :rofl1:

Get used to it

When people are doing just fine without the critismim and are not looking for the critisim them why do it? Look very simple. I will just not post about her training anymore. Issue solved. If I am looking for advice I will ask, as I always do. I will keep the updates to her pictures. Thanks for the responses. I am done with this thread.

Once again, if you are as confident as you say why do you take it as criticism? You are happy correcting your pup, for what ever reason (you think it works better, its what you are familiar with, you like the feeling of power.. what have you) Why do you care if we all discuss (mainly for the lurkers and guests, often of which there are 3x or more as many on chaz as members) why its a bad idea.

If you believe you are doing the right thing, why sweat what ppl on the internet say?

And I already answered that. So I feel no need to answer it agian. My whole life has been one big episode of people telling me how to think, feel, act, live and so on. If I didn't listen my life was made to be a living hell. I had to fight hard emotionally and in many other ways to finally feel like I was entitled to the same rights as others to believe what I wanted, feel the way I wanted and so on. And this is still hard for me to do. I still feel at times that I have to please everyone. After spending so much energy doing that all my life I have no desire to anymore for things that I have full confidence in. I know I am a good trainer. I know I work great with dogs. I know what I am capable of and it gets exhausting constantly being talked to like I have no clue, or defending my position. As Doug said when he read this he said "your proof is laying under your desk." Sheena is the best trained dog I have ever worked with. I have helped many dogs, had articles published in magazines for my training and am confident in my style. I just do not choose to debate it any longer.

I think you are missing my point. I am not interested in changing your mind. I don't really care what you do.

I do care though that people who haven't made up their minds who read these threads get a more accurate idea of what will likely happen if they, for example, correct an insecure pup when it snaps.

I do however find it funny that you say you are sooo confident you are doing the right thing, but then get all upset if everyone doesn't just swoon over what you do. I could care less what you do, you obviously are uninterested in trying anything different and know better than everyone. Fine, we get that. So what?

ETA for what its worth I think Fran's idea of a blog is a good idea. You could post to your hearts content and not worry about people saying things that might upset you.

You can turn this into insults all you want(which is exactly how I took you last paragraph) but I will not lower myself to it. And I will not debate with you why I wish to not debate. AS my signature says I do not have to attend every arguement I am invited too. And it people choose to read that as me not being confident in my postiion that is there choice. But in actual fact it is me choose to not debate something when I see no point since I am confident in my postition in it since the proof is in the dogs I have trained and the many I have helped who otherwise would have been put down. Like I said I will no longer post about her training. Since I have no desire to debate training methods.

If you look for insults where none are intended you will find them.

Trust me if I was to insult you you would know. I actually find it amusing, so I wasn't insulting you. Just pointing out that either 'a' you are not as confident as you seem, or 'b' you are being really funny. Since I tend to take people at their word... its funny