Lab declared "not vicious" despite attacking a 3-yr-old

Mine are pretty tolerant.. but I don't take chances. Darien did get bit once. Totally my fault. He was 5 and started crying and saying Kaiden bit him. I ran in and he was holding his hand wailing. He was saying Kaiden bit him for no reason.. but as I cleaned his hand and calmed him down (there was a small bruise and scratch) it turns out he decided he wanted the ball that Kaiden had and went to take it from him. Seems that Kaiden went to grab it back and pinched his finger.......

I didn't see it happen. Like that mother I was 'there' just not looking at that moment. BUT Darien was old enough to say what happened. (and there wasn't even much reason to stick a cheering scobydoo bandaid on)

Not saying you're "wrong" ... but even in the case of small terriers I think it very much depends on the individual dog. My Dad's pack of mini-schnauzers were very tolerant ... both of humans (including young children!) and of the sometimes-clumsiness of Dad's GSDs when they were in that adolescent puppy stage.

My sister's Wheaten Terrier mix absolutely *loves* children, along with everyone else. Other sis's mini-schnauzer is the same ... but a bit more stoic in attitude. He would walk away before biting, and has never growled at anyone even though he was raised with two rambunctious little boys. Our Westie dude (granted, still a puppy as of yet) also loves children and gets along fine with other dogs and even cats. Stepson had recently stepped on the Westie's paw accidently ... he just yelped and took off ... no growl or snap.

But my cousin's Cairn did have a tendency to growl and give warning snaps when irritated, but she never actually bit anyone as she never connected skin. Her warnings were pretty assertive, but only warnings. Sis's friend's JRT has bitten a ffew people ... but snap bites, not full-on attacks. But sis says that JRT didn't recieve much in the way of training ... and is rather spoiled.

Hmmm...That's kinda the same thinking that says a GSD is going to round up all the kids...I've owned many herding dogs and not one of them has thought a human was livestock that needed herding. I would be mildly worried about a terrier who couldn't differentiate between a human and a raccoon. Ya don't see weims pointing at toddlers.

I've always had some kind of herding dog or herding mix... and they've never tried to "herd" people... but I always read that in their descriptions....

No but you do get a lot of JRTs in rescue that bite people. And the rescue will take dogs with bite histories. I do think breeding for independence, tenacity and a willingness to 'bring it on' can equate to dogs who are less inhibited at showing their displeasure. I am sure they know the difference between quarry and human. BUT its says on the main breed websites-NOT tolerant of children, will not but up with... etc etc. They are known for it.

Most terriers are not bred to be 'game' anymore. I have taught earth dog workshops and most terriers have no interest in the rat, and even many who do won't enter even a short section of tunnel to get the rat. Many JRTs will enter/work and get their first certificate first time seeing the set up... So comparing the terrierness of terriers isn't even all that accurate

Sport tries to herd Darien on his bike. If Darien runs around Sport demonstrates herdy behaviors, circling, crouching, etc etc. I am sure he knows Darien is not a sheep.

That is true. And it's seen in corgis as well, and probably some other non-terrier breeds.

Regarding JRTs:

Yes it does say that ... wish people would listen. I saw a general Q&A site quite a while back with a question from some woman. She went on about how she just loves the look of those little dogs like on the Frasier re-runs.

She had found out it was a JRT and her plan was to get one as the "perfect companion" for her "spunky" 3-yr. old son. :yikes:

Didn't sign on to the site but she had left an email link so emailed her with links to temperament descriptions of JRTs ... along with urging her to *please* not get a JRT as a companion for her 3 yr. old!! (Also suggested waiting on any dog, since as per her question the child was only 3, described as "spunky", and he had never had exposure to dogs before.)

Never heard back from her ... but hope she didn't get that JRT she planned.

i took herding classes for my sheepdog and corgi... the instructor told us that "herding people" isn't really a sign your dog will herd sheep/ducks, etc... it's more of a sign that your dog is a jerk. hehehe People EXPECT them to do that and let them get away with being pushed around - dogs throw their weight around just like people, and because it's in all these breed descriptions, they let their dogs do it.

Trey thinks he's master people-herder. He always has... it took a while to keep him from nipping at fast moving feet, lol.

I agree.

Gonzo would LOVE to herd people if he was allowed to... haha. But, of course, he isn't! It's not so much identifying "livestock" and "people" and "dogs" and whatnot, it is the motion that a herding dog is attracted to. Many herding dogs will herd cars... do you really think they mistake them for sheep? No. I find it kind of far-fetched to expect a herding breed to somehow know that a sheep is to be herded, but running dogs or people are not to be herded; you have to teach them that distinction.

As far as terriers being more apt to bite than Labrador Retrievers, YES, I completely agree. To be perfectly honest, if I owned a Lab... a Lab PUPPY... and he ran over and severely bit a child's face with no warnings, I would not be able to trust that dog ever again. Not only is that behavior going completely against the breed itself, it's going against the dog's age, and against any sign of self control or appropriate manners. By warnings, I mean, growls, snarls, shrieks, etc. Any stable dog is going to make a heck of a racket before even considering air-snapping at a child, and that's if they have no way of getting out of the situation, which this dog did. D:

When I was 3-4 years old, our Cocker Spaniel, Max, bit my sister in the face. He nearly ripped her cheek off, and she needed about the same amount of stitches as that toddler. She was petting him, and he had just gotten home from the groomers. Unbeknownst to my Mom, they had clipped him way too close and he had burns on his stomach. He didn't make any warning yelps, or any snaps, he just latched onto her face. My parents refused to blame him, and kept him. Shortly thereafter, he bit one of my sister's friend's in the face while he was politely petting Max. Max went back to his breeder. I'm not saying that a dog who inflicts this kind of bite cannot be managed and contained, or that they cannot be intensely trained and socialized, but I honestly feel that the "average" person will NOT do that training and will NOT dedicate the constant attention needed to keep their dog completely contained at all times; making a dog who has proven that they will, without warning, inflict potentially fatal bites a huge danger to society in general.

Does anyone know if the owners were punished, at all? Or the dog labeled as dangerous? I really hope something was done...

Typical!! The dog should have been PTS, no doubt if it was my dog then that instance it would have been pts, but I hate the fact if this was a molosser type dog then it would have been killed! Ive been bitten by 2 labs before (Im a dog trainer so it comes with the job) but ive also met many very friendly ones.

Sooo for all you who want to kill the dog with no indication that the dog is dangerous, no medical follow up, no evalutation.. just kill the dog. (and i THink saying if it was an other breed it would have been PTS so this one should be too is backwards.. i don't care what the dog was-in this instance there seems to be so much unknown I don't think ANY breed of dog should have been killed)

I got nailed by Dekka the other day. Not bad, just a tooth scratch really, but I was dumb and stuck my hand in her face when she was snarking at another dog. So what if the one dog was 'protecting' the child from the other dog and the child suddenly moved in the way? I know of quite a few people bit like that.

As I have said before maybe the dog did mean to bite the child, but how do we even know which dog did it? No one saw it.

Why do we hold dogs to a higher level than we do people? This is the part I really don't understand.

Thats different, if you put your hand infront of your dog when it was confronting another dog then it was an accidental bite! Be it a lab, pitbull, yorkie or a cross breed what ever dog bites viciously and intents on doing harm then it should not be allowed to do it again, because it proberly will, I do not blame the dog, I blame the owner/s, but it does not mean the dog can carry on to bite another person.

The point is that nobody can say exactly what happened at all, because nobody was watching......