Problems with Sarge persist.

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#1
Hey everyone.
I have yet another question about Sarge and what do to with him. For those who may not recall, I posted a thread about him biting my child. Sarge is now 11 weeks old.
New problem, or more of the same.

I cannot explain this dog. He is sooo wonderful most of the time, and then for no reason at all it seems he snaps.

To explain what we have been doing with him. He is on the NILIF program. He has to sit before he gets anything, and I am also teaching him the "down" command, to sort of mix it up for him a bit. He sits to go outside, come in, get petted, etc. The only time he's not required to do anything for something is when we are all in bed sleeping. He sleeps with my husband and I, as we both work and cannot tolerate the endless howling he does in a crate. If this is a major contributing cause to his behavior, his sleeping with us can be remedied..it'll just be a few nights without sleep for us!

Here are the issues: first, his growling at us when he's sleeping continues. Though it does seem to be primarily when he is on the couch. If he is sleeping with my husband and I at night, he climbs right up by our faces, and has no issues sleeping nose to nose with us. He seems to have the biggest issue with my daughter, who is four. This confuses me as she is the quietest and calmest of my three children. So for this we have been working with him enjoying us in his 'space' by use of treats. It goes great one time, and he growls the next. He is a different creature!

Second: Yesterday, Sarge was on the floor of the living room chewing on a pen, my husband ( I was at work) told him NO and took the pen away. Sarge growled. He then whopped him on the butt, and Sarge grew more aggravated and growled louder. My husband then picked him up and put him outside. I've spoken to him about striking Sarge, and how we cannot strike him it only encourages aggression, he said that it was his first response, and he did it without thinking. We're working on that. :eek:

The weird thing about this dog is he'll do these type things, aggressive/dominant behavior at one point, but then be the best little pup ever all the rest of the time. I have worked with Sarge to make sure he's not toy/food aggressive, and he's not been. This pen incident is the first sign of this, and he's been fine with both toys and food since. I'm confused.

Also, this may or may not be anything, but want it noted if it helps. When he plays with my older matriarch basset hound, he has his hackels up the whole time. Like no other puppy play I've witnessed. Like he's taking the "play time" seriously...only when she says they're done, he respects that and goes on to chewing on his toy or doing whatever he was doing before and is not overly rough with her. Just has his hackles up the whole time he play fights.

Here is my question. We really don't want to give up on this pup. We really like him (when he's not being aggressive) and when he's "good" he's really good!! But, is there a chance that this behavior is perhaps a mental thing. Like he's maybe got a screw loose? Or if we keep on keeping on, will it take care of these issues. I am willing to put the time and effort in to him, if he winds up being a respectful adult dog, but I cannot justify the time, energy and further love for this dog, if I will never, ever be able to trust him from one minute to the next.

I have been trying to find a behaviorlist in our area, and so far have come up empty. There's a vet's office I want to try tomorrow, so there may be some hope there. In the meantime, I appreciate any and all advice on this matter.
TIA


 

Brattina88

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#2
I'm not an expert, and I admit I haven't followed the other post closely, but IMO, if a dog is having any 'aggression' problems at all - they are to be off of the bed, and off of the couch. My suggestion (since you already are against the crate - which would be a useful tool in your situation, IMO) is to buy the pup his own bed and encourage him to lay there instead. This would be his bed, where no one can get in his face or bother him while he's sleeping - which would also aid in the couch-growling problem as well.

I doubt this is a mental thing. It sounds to me that he is getting mixed signals, and is taking advantage of it. Also, if your husband is striking him he may very well not fully trust or feel completely comfortable in your household, because if he does something wrong (and he's so young, how would he know that its wrong unless taught?) he is going to be punished...

As for the pen thing - I never advise anyone to take anything out of a dogs mouth, as its always a risk of being growled or snapped at. If you do a search here on Chaz, I'm sure you'll find lots of threads about "drop it" - the next time you find your pup has something, trade him for a higher value treat or toy ;)

Does your daughter ever participate in the training/NILIF? For example, have her make him sit, and then set his food bowl down. Behaviors like these will reinforce that she has say-so, too.

I don't think he's got a screw loose, or a mental problem. Sounds like a couple crazy, pain in the ... neck ... puppies I know :p Good Luck!

There are several trainers on here that may be able to find a good trainer/behaviorist in your area... Where in Wisc. are you located?​
 
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#3
Thanks for your reply. A couple things in response; just to clarify, my hubby doesn't go around hitting the dog, just in that instance he said it was a knee-jerk response, and he is attempting to change that response as he also knows it is not the right thing to do!! I know you didn't necessarily mean it to sound that way, I just wanted to be sure to clarify!! :)
Also, I'm not against crate training at all. I think it is a wonderful tool and we used it with our oldest basset. I just hoped we wouldn't have to with this boy, while we're home, because he howls like the dickens in it! Also, hubby and I both work (me about 32 hours a week, him full time) and Sarge is in his crate while we work and I feel bad having him "locked up" any more than he has to be. HOWEVER, as I stated in the first post, if that is necessary to make him a healthy, happy, trustworthy dog, then so be it. I am certainly not against it if it is for the better good!! Otherwise, we do have two spots in the living room where he can lay down on his fluffy blankies. One by my hubbies spot next to the couch, and one tucked semi-behind a door, where he can go to get away from everyone/thing. He does use them as well, just not at night. The reason for him sleeping in the bed initially, was so that he wouldn't have any accidents over night. He wakes me up by kissing me if he has to go during the night. Again though, if crating is necessary, I am willing to do whatever I have to do.

The "drop" or "give" is a wonderful idea and one I hadn't thought of. Whenever I take anything from him that he's not supposed to have I say NO, take the item (he's never growled or even offered to growl at me for this), give him his chew toy and tell him GOOD BOY and pat his head when he takes the chew toy. Is this ok? I will begin to incorporate the drop command with the action.

Yes, my daughter is an active participant in the NILIF program with Sarge. She is very proud of herself when she gets him to listen to her and he is getting better about it. The first few times he blew her off completely, but she got a little more assertive with him, and he is listening better. He simply gets nothing if he does nothing! She does fairly well, for four!!

Also, I am in a little po-dunk town about 75 miles north of Eau Claire, WI.
Thanks again for your response.
 

Zoom

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#4
Yes, until this dog learns all of his manners, he must not be allowed on either the couch or in bed with you. Tolerate the howling; giving in while he's fussing only reinforces the idea in his mind that the longer he howls, the better chance he has of getting out.
 
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#5
Real quick update, before I head to work. At the advice of Zoom (ty) we did not allow Sarge to sleep with us last night. He got his blankie next to our bed. There was very little whining, and he went to sleep. However, when I went up to use the rest room, I stepped over part of him, and he snapped at my leg. I told him NO. Then stepped back a few steps, called him to me, made him sit and then proceeded on my way. ARGHHH, I'm lost here. Was this the right thing to do? An issue a minute with this boy, it seems. thank you all for your continued help.
 

silverpawz

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#6
Whenever I take anything from him that he's not supposed to have I say NO, take the item (he's never growled or even offered to growl at me for this), give him his chew toy and tell him GOOD BOY and pat his head when he takes the chew toy. Is this ok? I will begin to incorporate the drop command with the action.
Scolding when taking away something can actually cause the dog to become defensive, and start anticipating the scolding before you even get to him. I never scold if my dogs get something they shouldn't, instead I call them over, ask them to sit and take the item. Then praise them for being such good dogs and for 'helping' me. ;)

Sometimes I even give the item back. Yes, I know you don't want your dog chewing on a pen, but the act of giving the item back even for just a few seconds builds trust.

Start approaching it in an upbeat manner instead of thinking how you can make him see that it's wrong. That won't do any good. Make him happy to show you his treasures and you've won the battle.

He's still VERY young, so you've got a great opprotunity to turn this into a fun game, instead of try to 'teach' him that taking items is forbidden. He's going to get stuff. That's part of being a puppy, no matter how much you puppy-proof your house he'll find something to chew on that he shouldn't be. What matters is how he reacts when you ask for it back.

However, when I went up to use the rest room, I stepped over part of him, and he snapped at my leg.
I would use the crate. It sounds like he just hasn't earned the right to be sleeping near you yet. That can come later if he learns how to control himself, but for now, dogs that snap sleep in crates.
 

Cheetah

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#7
I think he needs to learn a good "drop it." When my corgi was about 4 months old, he found a dead bird in the yard. I hadn't taught him the "drop it" command, and I didn't want him to eat the dead bird, so I got down and tried to pry it out of his mouth. This resulted in him CLAMPING DOWN on the bird and attempting to swallow it whole before I could take it away. I then was trying to pry it out of the back of his throat, while he growled, yelped, and bit my hand repeatedly! It was horrible!

From that day on I started in on "drop it" so I'd never have to do that again. >X.x;<

Also, he is still a puppy, and some puppies are nippy and growly because they don't know any better. My corgi was 4 months old and still guardy with high value items - your pup is a week young than my corgi was when I first got him. With training, it will get better. >^^;<
 

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