The puppy options....

I do have a qestion...And please don't take this the wrong way.

You've gotten 2 dogs from the same breeder, and they both ended up passing away WAY before they should have. How are you willing to go to the same breeder?

Wondered too .......

It's a complicated situation, and I will not disclose everything on the internet. But neither one of those deaths have anything at all to do with the breeder. She has never ever lost a puppy other than those two in decades of breeding other than stillborns and the usual. The first situation was a complete fluke says the vets. There is no way to test for it, no way to know. Some sort of random thing, we still won't know what happened and we never will.

This second tragedy was due to the fact that someone in the background of the lines did NOT disclose all medical histories. It has nothing to do with breeder, she did everything right. It does have to do with information that was not disclosed about a great grandsire that she did not own, nor did the stud owner own.

The deaths are totally unrelated and very very bizarre. It just so happened we ended up with the two that had the problems. I'm not sure how that happened. If you're on the other side of this you actually will find people have been asking the opposite question- How can you keep adopting to these people that have let your pups die? The breeder is a great breeder and fairly well known, this is unheard of. Of course all the people within the breed were immediately looking at us and wondering why we were unsuitable owners. We had lots of people saying we let the dog get poisoned, which is very untrue.

It's been very touch and go and it's taken some understanding that sometimes even if you do things right, sh!t happens that has nothing to do with either party involved. You must also remember we've had three of the soundest, healthiest, well adjusted dogs from this breeder as well. I know every single dog she's produced in years. I've seen them and I know their owners and their health. Both my family and the breeder have been scrutinized repeatedly for any wrongdoings and we can find none with each other. People will probably disagree with us for going back (if we do) and I know people will disagree with her for selling to us again. We will all just do what we feel is best.

I think it's important for people to note that just because two events seem related, it doesn't mean that they are. And also to remember that a good breeder can have flukes show up and bad things happen no matter if they follow all the rules and do everything right.

I know of plenty of highly reputable breeders that have something terrible happen in regards to litters they produce. Imo it's how they handle themselves afterwards that shows true character.

Let Em's heart tell her which is right. They all souond good, if very different. I know which one I'd pick, but I'm not Em . . .

Same here! I will definitely let you guys know the decision.

I completely understand, Laur, and I'm sorry if you may have taken my question the wrong way. I've been wondering it since you had started looking for a new pup/dog.

I also understand that the BREEDER may haven't had anything to do with it. I was mainly saying the same lines. I'm sure the breeder has done everything in her power to correct the two terrible situation that has happend with your dogs, but I would be leary of the going with those lines again.

^^^ same here . I'm sure she wouldn't do a repeat breeding .

We were, until the new information came out from the great grandsire's owner. I don't know if you saw that thread but basically it can be concluded that Hiro's problems came from a shot sensitivity that was specific to his family that was imported from Japan. It shows up with the puppy shots apparently, we're not entirely sure which one. Basically it would've already shown up in any other pups so we are all pretty confident that Bernard is unaffected. He will not be bred so his possibility of carrying any sensitivity is moot. His great grandsire sired a litter that had two pups with the same problems and outcome. The other two pups are alive and perfectly normal. His owner did not hear about our situation until recently. Since that's come out, the heat's really been off of everyone as far as wondering who did something 'wrong' regarding the dogs.

The imported line is very extensive. A couple of the other dogs we're considering are also related, albeit distantly. Nowadays it's a hard line to get away from.

All our money was refunded for Hiro as well. Not that that is a terribly important thing at this point, but I think it does help prove the breeder's interests and intentions are right.

No, I didn't take it the wrong way and it's a valid concern, but I just felt like I should explain thoroughly.

Definitely not. She's vowed to never touch that bloodline again, even if they're the most winning dogs right now. The lines she used to use are a bit lacking in 'type' per say (Beau for example is a much coarser/British looking dog than the finely tuned JKC dogs) but they seem a lot sounder.

That clears some things up. I didn't see that thread.