Thinking about a Mac?

Chewbecca

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#41
But anyhow, simply put: if you want longevity, functionality, and save money: Build a windows unit (preferably not vista, I'm still using XP. You can still get XP, they extended the life on it).

If you want an over priced, under powered, limited unit, get a Mac.

I think this is funny to say to save money and get a windows unit. Perhaps when compared to Mac (I have no idea, as I've never looked into purchasing a Mac), but Windows is extremely bulky, runs horribly, and is WAYWAYWAY over-priced. AND SUCKS.

To the O.P., if you don't get a Mac, get a pc and use Linux.
 

GlassOnion

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#42
I think this is funny to say to save money and get a windows unit. Perhaps when compared to Mac (I have no idea, as I've never looked into purchasing a Mac), but Windows is extremely bulky, runs horribly, and is WAYWAYWAY over-priced. AND SUCKS.
I think XP cost me 60 bucks. It does its job, runs fine, and I'm not sure what you mean by extremely bulky. I only have 11 processes running at the moment that's taking up 700 mb of my 2 gigs of RAM.

200 MBs of that is firefox by itself (yah firefox has memory problems, hopefully will be fixed in Firefox 3).

But when this hard drive finally does crash I'll be going to Linux. Just not going to make the move when everything else is working fine.

We don't have to replace hard drives or do extensive repair work.
We don't have to either. Last 'extensive repair work' I did was replacing a stick of memory. Only extensive because I had to open up my case to do it.
 

Buddy'sParents

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#43
Two individuals in a class of 13 at my school had to replace their hard drives within ONE year of buying a PC.... so it's great that YOU have not had to provide funding for such repair work, but unfortunately (for PC users, I guess) it does happen. I let one of them use my computer during class, the next week, with the discount, she bought a Mac. She hasn't regretted the new buy either. :D
 

Nechochwen

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#44
Two individuals in a class of 13 at my school had to replace their hard drives within ONE year of buying a PC.... so it's great that YOU have not had to provide funding for such repair work, but unfortunately (for PC users, I guess) it does happen. I let one of them use my computer during class, the next week, with the discount, she bought a Mac. She hasn't regretted the new buy either. :D
What brand of laptops did they buy? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it was Acer... They're known for being of poor quality. Granted, every once in a while hard drives DO fail, as not every product can be perfect.

I bought a budget Toshiba laptop for about $500, bumped it up to 4 gigs ram, and I'm quite happy with it. Yes, I am running Vista on this as well, and the sole problem I had was trying to install a version of a product that came out 5 years ago. I got a newer version and its worked flawlessly since then.
 

GlassOnion

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#46
Toshiba's are awesome. Love my Toshiba laptop (cheap too, $600).

Hard drives will fail randomly for no reason no matter which system you get, Mac or Windows. Some brands fail more than others but Samsung seems to be a great hard drive (the one I have).
 

DemitriousK

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#47
OK, so. Lets get a few facts straight.

the new macs run on intel hardware, that is to say that the hardware is PC compatible. You can also run windows on the new macs natively, if you wanted to. To say that they are PC's, however, is an entirely different matter. You will always be able to define PC in such a way as to compass macs, but you can also define it in such a way that encompasses a calculator, or an abacus. Niether of those are PCs but they are portable, affordable, usable by the average person, fit on a desktop, and make repetative work easier by the means of computation. So do we really need to go there? Is it really necessary for people to say "apples are pcs?" no, not really.

You also miss a key point in the whole apple experience when you do this. The term PC was really made a mass market phenomenon when it became PC COMPATIBLE. That is, when any tom-dick-and-harry with a circuit board and a soldering iron could make pcs or pc hardware. And when every idiot can make something... usually every idiot does...

Apple hardware, on the other hand is cherry picked by apple, and their operating system is designed, extensively tested with. This makes the apple OS on apple hardware extremely stable, and extremely well tested. It doesn't NEED a sticker saying that its compatible with OSX. It was raised next to OSX and cared for by the same loving mother. It just works.

Compared to the "PC" experience where you have thousands of manufacturers making thousands of products, leading to millions of possible hardware combinations which could result in a "PC" which windows has to try and take into account for.... oh wait... windows/microsoft couldn't possibly do that. so they leave it to the manufacturer of that video card, or sound card, or motherboard, or whomever to create "drivers" for their hardware that works with windows. So now not only do you have various levels of competence making your hardware, you have varying levels of competence making the software that talks to your hardware.

So... the hardware could be a problem. and the software could be a problem.

But wait, there's more. Each of these drivers are developed in clean-room environments. Where machines are setup in whatever capacities that the hardware manufacturer deems prudent enough to say "it works" and the foware is tested there before getting rubber stamped as "working" did they test that video card with your motherboard, and how the drivers and software worked together? Probably not...

So there could be a problem with the hardware, the driver, drivers interacting with each other, software interracting with drivers, software interacting with each other. Oh my, I *DO* see a potential for problems here...

but... if you act now... you also get a manufactured computer. Some random company has some team of people putting together parts to make a computer you bring home in a box. How thouroughly did they test that? with your favorite application and games? with your OS of choice? With your particular combination of antivirus and antispiware software? With that new sound card you're thinking of upgrading to?

Yea. Good luck with that.

So I think I've appropriately covered some subtle, and vague differences here in why "a mac" is a significantly different beast than "a pc". So there *is* meat to the argument that mac is a more stable piece of hardware than pc. If we can move on past that point, we find ourselves at the operating system.

You see OSX and windows are completely different animals from an engineering standpoint. We're talking mamal vs reptile... way different.

way back in the day you had CP/M and Unix. ok... maybe I'll skip a bit of this history lesson, but please understand that if you're going to argue the concepts of core os differences and issues with me that you should expect to be talking to someone who knows a great deal more than your average user about the fundamental design concepts of the two than you're likely to meet on a sunday stroll through the park.

The basic differences between Unix derivatives (OSX) and dos derivatives (windows) come down to how software is built for the OS and how the user interacts with it.

For the most part a user interacts with Unix as a user. With no more privileges than are required to affect their own files. That's S.O.P. for Unix. You have to explicitly work to become root. So the effects of a virus or spyware limit themselves to affecting the user, and not the system as a whole. This may seem like a subtle difference but the ramifications are considerable.

Now generally speaking people run windows as super-users. So what a user does affects the entire OS. IT's slightly more complicated than that but fundamentally the idea of "privileges" and "ownership" are loosely-bolted-on afterthoughts for windows. And thus significantly easier to circumvent. Also core pieces of software that are commonly used by windows have their claws deeply and firmly embedded into windows. Which is why internet explorer is such a problem... because its something that SHOULD have been just software, but is so deeply embeded in the OS that it's literally a giant back door waiting to happen that can bypass all of the fundamental security principals that they are trying to apply.

Finally the software is of higher quality for macs than for windows. Not only because better programmers care about it, but because the toolkits upon which the software is built is var more modular, adaptable, maintainable, and seperate from the OS.

And none of this touches on things like registry inefficiencies, security practices, software shipped with the computers by default, or other aspects of the experience.

So if formatting your computer every 3 or 4 months to make it run faster. Fixing it constantly. Worrying alot. Wondering if it will work with your next purchase. And generally dealing with the computer rather than doing the tasks that you bought the computer to reform is what you're looking for... then buy a PC. Get a dell.

But if you're looking for a machine that will run. and keep running, and just never ever quit on you... letting you do what you want... well... consider a mac.

And for one final nail in the coffin. You can buy vmware, parallels, or other "virtualization" products which let you run windows inside them on your desktop along side OSX... the recent versions even support 3d hardware accelleration so you can play games from inside windows from inside osx.


In short... for the love of god.. stop saying that pcs are superior animals just because you like them. macs are validly better machines from the principals to the hardware to the software.
 

vanillasugar

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#48
I dunno, call me crazy, but I AM in a way, computer illiterate. I like not having to worry that I'm going to screw something up. In the 4 years my Dell lived I had to re-format twice, and it got bombarded with viruses. I thought I was being careful, I didn't download things willy-nilly, I ran scans and defraged on a regular basis.

I <3 my Mac. I don't want to have to worry about opening it up to repair it (are you KIDDING?! I don't know how to open a computer case!) I just want it to work. Period.
 

GlassOnion

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#49
So if formatting your computer every 3 or 4 months to make it run faster. Fixing it constantly. Worrying alot. Wondering if it will work with your next purchase. And generally dealing with the computer rather than doing the tasks that you bought the computer to reform is what you're looking for... then buy a PC. Get a dell.
Never have formatted my computer. Don't have to fix it constantly. I never worry about it (only thing that I worry about currently is my monitor is starting to not turn on properly, and that's hardly my computers fault. Easily solved by just keeping the monitor on and putting it into power saver mode). And I don't have to deal with my computer in any extraneous way to my computer usage.

In short... for the love of god.. stop saying that pcs are superior animals just because you like them. macs are validly better machines from the principals to the hardware to the software.
No I'll keep saying they're superior because they are, not just because I happen to use one. I've already listed the reasons why they're better.
 

Pam111

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#50
I bought a Macbook a couple weeks ago and I am really loving it

I only paid 1100 with a free printer and parallels software (if I want to run Windows) and upgraded memory

Also, I hate the argument that Macs are less of the market, which is why no one bothers with viruses for it....that doesn't even make sense. Don't you think someone would love to be the first to crash the Macs since everyone says they don't get viruses? Of course people would try
 

LauraLeigh

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#51
It's just learning the basics, like don't randomly download and install stuff that's not from a reputable source. Run a malware/spyware scanner once a month or so. Defragment once every couple of months. Nothing hard. Nothing time consuming. You can defrag while you sleep and scan in the background.
.

I already do all that stuff...... Have kaspersky antivirus, adaware spyware and defrag usually once a month. I do have a business and it involves graphics, I need to be able to download customers logo's/ pictures etc.
 

Nechochwen

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#53
the new macs run on intel hardware, that is to say that the hardware is PC compatible. You can also run windows on the new macs natively, if you wanted to. To say that they are PC's, however, is an entirely different matter. You will always be able to define PC in such a way as to compass macs, but you can also define it in such a way that encompasses a calculator, or an abacus. Niether of those are PCs but they are portable, affordable, usable by the average person, fit on a desktop, and make repetative work easier by the means of computation. So do we really need to go there? Is it really necessary for people to say "apples are pcs?" no, not really.
I get irritaed when people proclaim something that is quite obviously wrong; PC = Personal Computer. Nothing about what OS they run, what they look like, etc. Macs are PC's. Windows machines are PC's. The Commodore 64 was a PC.

Apple hardware, on the other hand is cherry picked by apple, and their operating system is designed, extensively tested with. This makes the apple OS on apple hardware extremely stable, and extremely well tested. It doesn't NEED a sticker saying that its compatible with OSX. It was raised next to OSX and cared for by the same loving mother. It just works.

Compared to the "PC" experience where you have thousands of manufacturers making thousands of products, leading to millions of possible hardware combinations which could result in a "PC" which windows has to try and take into account for.... oh wait... windows/microsoft couldn't possibly do that. so they leave it to the manufacturer of that video card, or sound card, or motherboard, or whomever to create "drivers" for their hardware that works with windows. So now not only do you have various levels of competence making your hardware, you have varying levels of competence making the software that talks to your hardware.

So... the hardware could be a problem. and the software could be a problem.

But wait, there's more. Each of these drivers are developed in clean-room environments. Where machines are setup in whatever capacities that the hardware manufacturer deems prudent enough to say "it works" and the foware is tested there before getting rubber stamped as "working" did they test that video card with your motherboard, and how the drivers and software worked together? Probably not...

So there could be a problem with the hardware, the driver, drivers interacting with each other, software interracting with drivers, software interacting with each other. Oh my, I *DO* see a potential for problems here...
Well, in addition to everything apple doing being proprietary, windows is the better machine for the exact reasons you just stated: They have to keep in mind that there are others out there, and that there is no possible way that one company could make every type of component out there on par that companies that specialize them can do. So you know what? They didn't try, and they let people pick and choose the components they want to. And with you throwing in some apple marketing, I'll respond to the same: Think Different. Isn't using your own, personalized setup that you picked to exactly suit your needs thinking more differently than using the exact same computer as everyone else? Or perhaps I'm wrong and 'think different' really means to conform to what one company wants your computing experience to be.

but... if you act now... you also get a manufactured computer. Some random company has some team of people putting together parts to make a computer you bring home in a box. How thouroughly did they test that? with your favorite application and games? with your OS of choice? With your particular combination of antivirus and antispiware software? With that new sound card you're thinking of upgrading to?

Yea. Good luck with that.
Mac is also a random company putting together parts to make a computer you bring home in a box. Also, things do work together, adhering to standards set by industry. Believe it or not, manufacturers are good at what they do.

So I think I've appropriately covered some subtle, and vague differences here in why "a mac" is a significantly different beast than "a pc". So there *is* meat to the argument that mac is a more stable piece of hardware than pc. If we can move on past that point, we find ourselves at the operating system.
Stable in the same way that a car designed for a specific type of road that is made and maintained by that same company is more stable in that type of road, yet a car that uses parts from different companies and drives on public roads is slightly less stable (people get in wrecks) yet offers a lot more functionality.

Finally the software is of higher quality for macs than for windows. Not only because better programmers care about it, but because the toolkits upon which the software is built is var more modular, adaptable, maintainable, and seperate from the OS.
Higher quality? Better programmers care about it? I honestly have no idea how you would come to that conclusion.

So if formatting your computer every 3 or 4 months to make it run faster. Fixing it constantly. Worrying alot. Wondering if it will work with your next purchase. And generally dealing with the computer rather than doing the tasks that you bought the computer to reform is what you're looking for... then buy a PC. Get a dell.

But if you're looking for a machine that will run. and keep running, and just never ever quit on you... letting you do what you want... well... consider a mac.
Reformatting every 3-4 months is only something that needs to be done if you go out and actively try to get a virus. Really, that's insane! I went 6 YEARS without a format, and that's with me being a retarded 13 year old and doing some horrible things as far as security practices go. The only reason you have to 'deal with the computer rather than doing the tasks you bought it to do' is if you have no idea what the hell you're doing.

And for one final nail in the coffin. You can buy vmware, parallels, or other "virtualization" products which let you run windows inside them on your desktop along side OSX... the recent versions even support 3d hardware accelleration so you can play games from inside windows from inside osx.
Which is something that they had to do in order to stay alive.

In short... for the love of god.. stop saying that pcs are superior animals just because you like them. macs are validly better machines from the principals to the hardware to the software.
I'm not saying they're better because I use one. I'm saying they're better because you don't need to spend a fortune to get a machine to check your email, and they have greater functionality.
 

Nechochwen

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#54
I bought a Macbook a couple weeks ago and I am really loving it

I only paid 1100 with a free printer and parallels software (if I want to run Windows) and upgraded memory

Also, I hate the argument that Macs are less of the market, which is why no one bothers with viruses for it....that doesn't even make sense. Don't you think someone would love to be the first to crash the Macs since everyone says they don't get viruses? Of course people would try
I addressed this on the first page:

Exactly. Keep in mind macs only represent about 10% of all computers in the US; the rest are running windows (or Linux, but that's a very small portion percentage wise). If you wanted to make a name for yourself by causing the maximum amount of damage with a virus or what not, you'd make your virus target windows computers because there's a larger user base, and a MUCH larger corporate user base. Hitting business is preferable, as you can cause a lot of monetary damage, and if you make it bad enough it'll make the news and you'll gain some fame.

However, with the increase in the number of macs, more people are starting to target them as well. I'll give it about 5 years, and macs will be just as targeted as windows for viruses.
 
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#55
Well, in addition to everything apple doing being proprietary, windows is the better machine for the exact reasons you just stated: They have to keep in mind that there are others out there, and that there is no possible way that one company could make every type of component out there on par that companies that specialize them can do. So you know what? They didn't try, and they let people pick and choose the components they want to.
That's like the Land Rovers they put out in the late '80s/early 90's (before BMW had them for awhile). They used that philosophy . . . you'd find, on one model, GM parts, Ford parts, Honda parts, Toyota parts and whatever else seemed to fit their needs. They were crap. Undependable, expensive to fix, total POS. Put the reputation of Rover into the toilet. It sounds good on paper, but IRL it's jerry-rigging.
 

Pam111

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#56
I addressed this on the first page:
Not entirely. I still think that with the whole "Macs don't get viruses" thing (which people have been saying for years), someone should have been successful by now. I'm not saying it won't happen. I just don't really think it's because people haven't been trying.





I don't hate Windows computers. I've had a Dell Latitude laptop for 3 years and it's still running fine, aside from slowing down a little. I use my computer constantly and brought it to class everyday. I was just careful about not downloading random things. I also never did the defragment thing in all that time or made any repairs, aside from new power cords, battery, and keyboard. I was very happy with Dell's customer service. I got the laptop as part of my scholarship and I never even had to put any money into it since the warranty covered it
 

Nechochwen

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#58
That's like the Land Rovers they put out in the late '80s/early 90's (before BMW had them for awhile). They used that philosophy . . . you'd find, on one model, GM parts, Ford parts, Honda parts, Toyota parts and whatever else seemed to fit their needs. They were crap. Undependable, expensive to fix, total POS. Put the reputation of Rover into the toilet. It sounds good on paper, but IRL it's jerry-rigging.
Except that it does work for computers, as all the parts are made to fit together. The Land rovers I'm pretty sure didn't work with Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc, to make sure everything worked together and have a support system in place if things did break.

Also, computers have a lot less components than a car; you have the power supply, the CPU, the RAM, the harddrive, the motherboard, the graphics card, some sort of sound card (most motherboards come with an integrated sound card now), the case, the monitor, and the keyboard/mouse, the latter three components really having nothing to do with the rest of the computer.
 
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#60
No, Jobs isn't a saint, but Gates is nothing more than a pirate - and one with no imagination and sans original thought.

Nice that he's got so much money now that he can buy some integrity with vast amounts that he'll never even miss. I'm not even remotely impressed.

Right now, the only mega mogul I have any real respect for, off the top of my head, is Richard Branson.
 

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