Love our Labs

joce

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#21
We only knwo what you told us. that you want to breed dogs under two,and I'm still not sure what health tests your getting done.

I think you should stick aorund and learn some stuff. this really is a great site but if you have bad breeding practices it won't be a good place for you. I do hope you stick aorund.

I also don't get what we are supposed to beleive. You ahven't told us anyhting that anyones really calling you a liar about. Any dog with a brown in the gene whatever color,can create a choclate though. What is offending you so much.

the akc people also say breed after two and health test.
 

mojozen

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#22
LabBreeder - if you choose to leave then it's by your choice not by how we are behaving. You choose to get upset by our questions... You are welcome to stay... we're all a sucker for dog and puppy pictures. But no one is making you do anything.

~*~

You know this is somewhat off topic... but i am starting to get amused by these attitudes of people when we show that we know dog breeds or about breeding or whatever... people get upset with us for asking questions about their breeding practices.

Why is it we're being accused of "running people off" when it's these people choosing to get upset that we know things?

I don't get it.
 
B

brock23

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#23
LabBreeder said:
I never said the male was certified! Why don't you people listen?
As for your genetic combinations...I do know what is in their line. I also know that you, or your book about genetics, could very well be wrong. I will continue to go by my book and by what AKC and other groups say. I don't know you, so why should I believe you? You sure as hell don't believe me.
I don't appreciate ya'lls attitude at all.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
 
L

LabBreeder

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#24
You have all just proven that you don't appreciate or welcome new members. I know you know things about other breeds...so do I. I have answered your questions, if you'd only look at previous posts. As for the smart alec who said "don't let the door hit me on the way out"...you can kiss my a**. You are worse than anyone else because you have nothing productive to say.
Anyone that's interested in having a normal conversation and talking about our dogs and what they do is more than welcome to keep posting. Otherwise I'd appreciate it if you didn't post rude remarks. Make sure you read the whole post before you say something is not answered as well. Otherwise you end up looking silly.

So....we have two Labs. A black and a chocolate. Our female is starting to get testy with the male puppy when it comes to her food and paying attention to both of them when she's the one wanting all the attention. She won't bark or bite, but she does a low, short growl at the food bowl when he comes by or she'll show her teeth at him when she wants to be the only one getting attention. Any suggestions?
 

Julie

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#25
If you do your research you will see that only 2 (TWO) genetic combos give you a chocolate. I've done the research, I know. I have many books on breeding, genetics, health, etc.
If you think you only get choc from: black/choc or choc/choc,
then how can you explain me getting my choc male in my siggy from
a yellow mother and a choc father? And every pup they had was choc.

Believe me, you should take a closer look at the link I posted before. ;)
 
B

brock23

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#26
LabBreeder said:
You have all just proven that you don't appreciate or welcome new members. I know you know things about other breeds...so do I. I have answered your questions, if you'd only look at previous posts. As for the smart alec who said "don't let the door hit me on the way out"...you can kiss my a**. You are worse than anyone else because you have nothing productive to say.


 
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L

LabBreeder

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#27
You people really are childish ya know? I can't believe how ignorant and stupid you are acting. You can't even get the hint to change topics. How in the world have you made it this far in life being so stupid?
 

mojozen

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#28
LabBreeder - perhaps if you hadn't started to sling insults first people would be far less likely to react. You have given the impression that you know more than us about breeding labs, when I think several of our members have proven you wrong.
 

MomOf7

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#29
I breed labs....I know about thier genetic make up. I know how you can produce a all chocolate litter with a black and a chocolate..I know about the genetic conditions effecting labs today, and I know field lines well.

I havent read through this whole thread but the little I did read was disturbing as a new member.

Keep in mind folks this is a forum just because you sit behind a computer doesnt automatically have the right to be rude.
You dont know this person or what they may have to offer. They may learn some things here so why chase them off? To me thats childish.

Anyways To the ORIGINAL poster.....

Make sure you research your dogs lines. Get thier certifications and compete to make sure that your dog is breedable material.
Just because your pups are purebred doesnt make them breedable material..Even if they have several titles behind them. Dont take this to be rude its only information.
I compete in hunt tests with my dogs and have 1 maybe 2 litters a year. I am a hobbyist not a full bore kennel. Not that there is anything wrong with a kennel at all.
Welcome to Chaz...Soak in information. If you have any questions feel free to pm me.
I will PM you a forum to go to for gundogs where you can ask questions and read the threads to see what is going on in the gundog world.

Kristine
 
L

LabBreeder

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#30
mojozen..........i never slung an insult in the first place, and certainly not at you until you started cursing. I simply didn't appreciate being treated like a lesser individual because some of you may know a little more. I sincerely hope this isn't how you welcome all new members. All I was trying to do was talk about my Labs and what we were planning on doing. I've already explained about the certs, our male and female, colors, history, etc. Why must we keep going in circles about it? I even tried to change the subject but you and another person wouldn't do it. It's almost like you enjoy arguing with people you don't know....or you just don't want to know us in the first place and are trying to run us off.
If you're offended by what I may or may not do with my dogs, perhaps you should just walk away from this discussion now. Otherwise, go with the flow and stop posting nasty remarks and silly pictures simply because you think you don't like someone when you don't even know them.
 

J's crew

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#31
LabBreeder said:
You have all just proven that you don't appreciate or welcome new members. I know you know things about other breeds...so do I. I have answered your questions, if you'd only look at previous posts. As for the smart alec who said "don't let the door hit me on the way out"...you can kiss my a**. You are worse than anyone else because you have nothing productive to say.
Anyone that's interested in having a normal conversation and talking about our dogs and what they do is more than welcome to keep posting. Otherwise I'd appreciate it if you didn't post rude remarks. Make sure you read the whole post before you say something is not answered as well. Otherwise you end up looking silly.

So....we have two Labs. A black and a chocolate. Our female is starting to get testy with the male puppy when it comes to her food and paying attention to both of them when she's the one wanting all the attention. She won't bark or bite, but she does a low, short growl at the food bowl when he comes by or she'll show her teeth at him when she wants to be the only one getting attention. Any suggestions?

Everyone here DOES welcome new members. I have never been part of a forum that is as friendly as this one. Members here have a passion for dogs. One thing you will notice on any forum for dog lovers is the belief that any breeding that is done should be done right.
I am sure your dogs are lovely, the problem is there are so many dogs being bred that are not up to standard for the breed. Yours very well may be. Have you shown you female? Do you know her faults versus strengths? You have said she has had health testing done. Do those tests include being certified by OFA or CERF? If not will you being getting these done before breeding? I am sure you are aware of the health problems that are common in your breed. That is why a vet check is not nearly enough.
Please do not get offended by posts here from dog lovers. Many of us do rescue so we see all to often the effects of breeding with no health clearances (OFA & CERF). It would not be right for myself to claim I am an animal lover but then just sit by while someone states they will be breeding without first knowing exactly what they are doing.

As far as your female growling at the pup. My advice would be to feed them seperately. Do you have a crate? Maybe you could feed the pup in there. From the sounds of it she is just warning him to stay away and being just a baby he should get the hint. From your post it does not sound as if she is being aggressive, just letting him know the rules. Have you done any obedience training with her?
 

MomOf7

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#32
I
know Tira is great for breeding purposes...besides her pedigree she's been thorougly checked by our vet and nothing has been found to be wrong with her hips, eyes, elbows or anything else.
Without having xrays sent to OFA Or having a vet who can read the xrays well there is no way to tell if your dogs hips or elbows are in good condition.
You have to have a animal Opthamologist look at your dogs eyes before you can say that his/her eyes are normal. Thats left to the specialists to determine.

Theres nothing wrong with asking more for one color or the other. Its a preference. I dont price my pups on color I price them on thier breeding. I also dont charge more for females than males. All are equall in my eyes. A good breeding is a good breeding color has nothing to do with it...

Yes I do agree you can have a all chocolate litter with a black to chocolate.
What is needed is to have a color coat test done. I believe optigen offers that service. Costs around 150$ Both parents have to have this done to determine the color or colors of your litters.

You cannot certify any dog under 24mo of age. OFA will not do that. ALthough Cerf will. But you want the Cerf to be current within that year of breeding.
Also I would take your pup into the opthamologist right away. They can see if your dogs eyes are good right now. Better to know now than later when you want to breed and you have put alot of hard earned dollars, love and time.

Remember this is all information. I too had to learn this. Learning in the field of breeding is a ongoing process. Keep yourself educated. Get involved in a club, find a more seasoned breeder to glean information from, and compete with your dogs in some type of competition. Hunt test or Field trials are more desirable when selling gundogs. This is a expensive endeaver.

Good luck and take care!:)
 
L

LabBreeder

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#33
EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEBb(black/choc carrier) = genotype: 1/4 EEBB + 1/2 EEBb + 1/4 EEbb---phenotype: 75% black pups + 25% choc pups

EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEbb(choc) = genotype: 1/2 EEBb + 1/2 EEbb---phenotype: 50% black pups + 50% choc pups

As for colors...let's leave it at this. All Labs can have a black/yellow or chocolate gene...this doesn't guarantee you a specific color though. In order to get a chocolate pup (at LEAST 50% of the time) you must have 2 chocolates with only chocolate genes or a black w/ chocolate and a chocolate with chocolate genes. Yes, any color can carry any other color (I believe chocolates can only carry chocolate or yellow...but a black or yellow can carry all 3 colors). My point is, our 2 dogs will have blacks and chocolates. Whether it's 50/50 or 75/25 I don't know...but their will be both colors.
 
L

LabBreeder

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#34
If this was a "welcome" forum, I'd hate to see an unwelcome one...lol. Seriously though, she'll be OFA and CERF certified, he'll be CERF certified (if we even breed them when he's that young...since everyone thinks it's not the best thing, maybe we'll wait).
They do get fed in different bowls in different areas. He just comes over to see what she's doing and she'll growl at him when she's eating. We tried putting the food in his crate, but he keeps knocking things over (as puppies will do). Still, they are seperate when they eat.
She also growled and showed her teeth whenever my husband came home for lunch today. She wanted to be the center of attention (he's a truck driver and usually only home on weekends) but we love on both of them. She only wanted my husband to love on her and not Gunner. She did stop after being told "no" but you could tell she was still upset about it.
Believe me...everything will be checked, tested, certified, updated, etc before any puppies are born.
She has had basic training but is starting to pull on her harness when we take her out. She wants to sniff things that are beyond her reach. She'll stop pulling when we tell her to, but the first tug or two can get hard on your arm after awhile.
 

MomOf7

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#35
LabBreeder said:
EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEBb(black/choc carrier) = genotype: 1/4 EEBB + 1/2 EEBb + 1/4 EEbb---phenotype: 75% black pups + 25% choc pups

EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEbb(choc) = genotype: 1/2 EEBb + 1/2 EEbb---phenotype: 50% black pups + 50% choc pups

As for colors...let's leave it at this. All Labs can have a black/yellow or chocolate gene...this doesn't guarantee you a specific color though. In order to get a chocolate pup (at LEAST 50% of the time) you must have 2 chocolates with only chocolate genes or a black w/ chocolate and a chocolate with chocolate genes. Yes, any color can carry any other color (I believe chocolates can only carry chocolate or yellow...but a black or yellow can carry all 3 colors). My point is, our 2 dogs will have blacks and chocolates. Whether it's 50/50 or 75/25 I don't know...but their will be both colors.
Very good! If you want to know for sure what color/s your 2 will have you can get the optigen test done. Its very accurate.
:)
 

J's crew

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#36
LabBreeder said:
If this was a "welcome" forum, I'd hate to see an unwelcome one...lol. Seriously though, she'll be OFA and CERF certified, he'll be CERF certified (if we even breed them when he's that young...since everyone thinks it's not the best thing, maybe we'll wait).
They do get fed in different bowls in different areas. He just comes over to see what she's doing and she'll growl at him when she's eating. We tried putting the food in his crate, but he keeps knocking things over (as puppies will do). Still, they are seperate when they eat.
She also growled and showed her teeth whenever my husband came home for lunch today. She wanted to be the center of attention (he's a truck driver and usually only home on weekends) but we love on both of them. She only wanted my husband to love on her and not Gunner. She did stop after being told "no" but you could tell she was still upset about it.
Believe me...everything will be checked, tested, certified, updated, etc before any puppies are born.
She has had basic training but is starting to pull on her harness when we take her out. She wants to sniff things that are beyond her reach. She'll stop pulling when we tell her to, but the first tug or two can get hard on your arm after awhile.


Good! I am glad to hear you will be doing the right thing. There is tons of info on this site so take some time and read through the threads. I have been breeding and showing for some years and you can never learn to much. You might want to get involved with a local club in your area. I owe so much to my mentor for showing me what is what.

As for your female, it sounds like she needs her training stepped up quite a bit. Do a search on NILIF and implement this along with more training. And when you feed the pup in his crate close the door until he is done eating. I myself do not like anyone sniffing around my food when trying to eat so she probably feels the same. :)

Edited to add this link. Good info on NILIF. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
 

joce

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#37
If your thinking of waiting to breed good. You learned something and its probally not a good feeling to come on a forum and hear this but we are all speaking the truth and we jsut care about the dogs. Look at some old threads and maybe you'll see how many people come here wnating to breed something,anything:p

Just watch with how the pup comes up. He'll probally adjust to the female being top dog but if he wants to be dominant also there may be a problem. It might be good to start keeping them apart at times anyway since there will be times they will have to be apart when she is in heat. Some pups will latch onto another dog and act like they cna't go on without the other. My dobe did it with my poor husky when he was a pup and she wanted nothing to do with him:p
He'll probally act like a nuttball when they are apart anyway though. Its a pain to have a male when you have an intact female. My boy wouldn't eat some days,others it was a constant whine.
 
L

LabBreeder

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#38
It's strange with them sometimes. She lets him try to mate with her, even though he's only 8 wks old (he doesn't even come close to getting it right, so don't worry) and she will lay there and let him pull her around by the nape of her neck like he's the dominant one (I'm guessing she's playing the "mommy" role when he does this to her). The only time she gets aggrivated with him is when he comes around her when she's eating (even then she doesn't growl all the time) or when she thinks she deserves all the attention (because she's been an only "child" for most of her life). The weird thing is, we had a jack russel/chihuahua mix female, only 7 lbs, and Tira never had a problem with her. They ate out of the same bowl even though there were seperate bowls available...Tira never growled at her or anything. I know Georgia was a female, smaller and so much less intimidating than the little boy we have now...but still. It's funny how the girls got along when there were no men around, but now that it's just Tira and a little man she doesn't quite know what to do yet. She even let him try to suckle on her, until his puppy teeth got a good hold!
 
L

LabBreeder

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#39
I went to the NILF website you metioned. I've done all of these things except ignore her when she demands attention and get her to stop jumping on new people for attention.
She'll sit when I open the door to go outside. She'll sit/speak for a treat. She'll sit to play fetch.
She just won't stop hopping/jumping up on people for attention when she meets them. Now, she doesn't do it with ALL people. Some people she's timid with, others she won't have anything at all to do with and the rest she wants to play/jump/lick them. After she gets the initial excitement out of her system she's fine.
When she comes by the chair and puts her head under my hand, it's a natural reaction to pet and love on her. The same goes for when I stop petting her or scratching behind her ears...she'll butt under my hand and toss it over the top of her head. She may do this 5 or 6 times until she thinks she's been loved on enough, then she stops. It sounds funny, but it can be a tad annoying. What can be done, at home, about the jumping. It's hard to get a dog to not jump when you yourself are excited about being home and seeing them. My husband is gone all week and loves it when she jumps on him (unless she scratches) and kisses his face. We've both tried to stop her from doing it but she looks so rejected and sad afterwards.
Any ideas?
 

J's crew

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#40
LabBreeder said:
I went to the NILF website you metioned. I've done all of these things except ignore her when she demands attention and get her to stop jumping on new people for attention.
She'll sit when I open the door to go outside. She'll sit/speak for a treat. She'll sit to play fetch.
She just won't stop hopping/jumping up on people for attention when she meets them. Now, she doesn't do it with ALL people. Some people she's timid with, others she won't have anything at all to do with and the rest she wants to play/jump/lick them. After she gets the initial excitement out of her system she's fine.
When she comes by the chair and puts her head under my hand, it's a natural reaction to pet and love on her. The same goes for when I stop petting her or scratching behind her ears...she'll butt under my hand and toss it over the top of her head. She may do this 5 or 6 times until she thinks she's been loved on enough, then she stops. It sounds funny, but it can be a tad annoying. What can be done, at home, about the jumping. It's hard to get a dog to not jump when you yourself are excited about being home and seeing them. My husband is gone all week and loves it when she jumps on him (unless she scratches) and kisses his face. We've both tried to stop her from doing it but she looks so rejected and sad afterwards.
Any ideas?
Well, since she is growling when the puppy interferes with her getting attention then you need to be the one who initiates the affection at all times. You do not have to do this forever. I have dogs that come and bump my hand for petting all the time. I give it freely if that dog does not have any behavior problems. However if there is ever a fight for my attention, neither dog gets it until it is on my terms.

As far as jumping it will never be solved until your husband stops allowing it. My husband is also guilty of this. :rolleyes: It took along time for him to get the point that if he allows it our dogs will think they can jump on anyone. I have a rescue that was really bad with jumping. Every time she is about to jump on me I just turn my back to her. She figured out pretty quick it was not to fun to just jump on my back because she is not getting the attention she is looking for. Any time now that she looks like she is about to jump I just turn slightly and say AH AH.

I know it is hard to turn down those big doggy eyes but you will be glad you did in the end. She needs to know you are the leader and she will respect you for it. Once her issues are corrected feel free to love away! :)
 

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