Bad Dog Trainer Beware !!

[swilson]

Mr. Richling claims that his training methods are based on German methods. That scared me after I found out that these were the same methods that were used on the German SS dogs. Mr. Richling might as well be Hitler the way he yells & screams.

How exactly do dog trainers get away with this, and why aren't they regulated?

 

[Purdue#1]

. Shouting may have been nessesary because he has no place to train these dogs other than out in a field, still unfortunate though. The insert from his book, if accurate, was sad. I've stated this in many threads... Richlings' methods of physical force, abuse and aggression to achieve obedience, are considered very, very old school and the lazy mans way of training.

1. shouting is necessary when you are over 50 feet away. And we train in all weather conditions except lighting, out in the open so that field is the best spot to train.

2. That insert is not in his book. And uses the word stave not switch.

3. so if what he does is old school then what dogs do old school since they correct each other with their teeth all the time?

[/IMG]

Richling doesn't correct two dogs the same way. for instance i wouldn't correct mickey the way i correct sly because mickey is a more submissive dog. He has the level of correction and the level of praise matched to each dog.

 

[MelissaCato]

Gotta love the Germans. Picture taken in 2000 at a German K9 Clinic.
Sorry, I had to through some humor into the "switch" ... I thought this was a very nice picture forcin' my submission LOL opcorn:

 

[Dekka]

Prudue..if you actually study dogs..not what you think dogs are..Dogs don't correct each other with teeth within the pack, unless they are unsocialized. Its all done through postures, noise etc. It would not be a benifit to the pack if members hurt eachother.

Also as I have stated before, if you wish to lower yourself to barbaranism where your dog is your enemy and must submit to become your slave, that fine, but thats what it is. My dogs are my partners, and yes they listen in big fields, etc etc..all without hitting.

BTW those dogs LOOK terrified! Read up on dogs!! So many people think appeasement behaviour is a happy dog. NO its a dog saying 'see I am a harmless pup, please be nice' And the signs of stress in the dogs that Otch mentioned...how can you not see it?

 

[TopShelfPets]

Dogs also have bite inhibition, so while they might use teeth, they know EXACTLY how much pressure they are using and are NOT trying to hurt the other dog, just communicate.

While there are feral dogs, there are not "wild" dogs. Dogs came about because wolves chose to domesticate themselves. And humans realized it could be a very symbiotic relationship and began breeding for qualities they wanted. So where does the idea of "dog packs" come from?

stave is not any better than switch. in my mind, in fact, it's worse because it implies a short, thick stick.

Why aren't there regulations for dog trainers?

 

[MelissaCato]

Dekka ...

'see I am a harmless pup, please be nice'

Hummm, and which breeds are these your speaking of? Or are you speaking for all breeds?

 

[MelissaCato]

TopShelf ...

wolves chose to domesticate themselves

.. this is just the funniest thing I've ever heard. opcorn:

 

[Baxter'smybaby]

Gotta love the Germans. Picture taken in 2000 at a German K9 Clinic.
Sorry, I had to through some humor into the "switch" ... I thought this was a very nice picture forcin' my submission LOL opcorn:

did you mean THROW? interesting that you "throw" something controversial out there, and then add popcorn to your post....

 

[MelissaCato]

Ohhh sorry again for my English, I do try you know.

 

[TopShelfPets]

Ohhh sorry again for my English, I do try you know.

your sig is going to give me seizures. LOL

 

[Dekka]

Actually yes it is applicable for all breeds, as all breeds are dogs. And while there are differences in behaviour between breeds, there are somethings that are standard.

And yes wolves did 'choose' to be domesticated. Its a symbiotic relationship. If you are more interested in ethology and animal behaviour, may I suggest you go to your local university and do some reading. Peer reviewed journals and science lit is a bit dry, but really interesting once you get the hang of it. And it is pretty free of bias, as there is no 'agenda', and it is picked apart (and must stand up) to other scientists

 

[TopShelfPets]

Actually yes it is applicable for all breeds, as all breeds are dogs. And while there are differences in behaviour between breeds, there are somethings that are standard.

And yes wolves did 'choose' to be domesticated. Its a symbiotic relationship. If you are more interested in ethology and animal behaviour, may I suggest you go to your local university and do some reading. Peer reviewed journals and science lit is a bit dry, but really interesting once you get the hang of it. And it is pretty free of bias, as there is no 'agenda', and it is picked apart (and must stand up) to other scientists

thanks dekka. I realized (too late) that i didn't explain that very well. Glad someone understood what i meant. Dogs are ancestors of wolves who -not sure the best word to use here - ignored? suppressed? wolf instinct and did what worked for them. i.e., they got warmth and protection from fires, scavenged human rubbish, got thrown a bone occasionally, and in return, they protected the humans they were around. After a while, their brains shrunk - they no longer had to map enormous hunting territories. And their teeth got more crowded together - they no longer had to hunt large game -it was mostly hunted by humans.

"The dog's ancestors, wolves, chose for their own reasons to live near human communities, and by doing so domesticated themselves. It was a brilliant evolutionary move on their part." - Bruce Fogle, DVM

 

[DanL]

okay, i don't think i really like him. this photo put me off.

why shoudl a dog do that? and imagine what would happen if it fell?

That kind of obstacle is great training for a service dog who needs to be comfortable in many situations and in many kinds of footings. Imagine a SAR dog who wouldn't climb a pile of rubble to search for survivors because he lacked confidence in himself? It'd be a useless dog.

I don't necessarily agree with how this guy trains, but those obstacle courses are pretty awesome in my eyes. Can a dog get hurt? Yes. Can my dog get hurt jumping off the deck? Yes. Does that stop him from doing it? No.

You can't really tell in the picture, but the dog could be hooked up with a harness somewhere. I'd take that precaution with my dog, that way if he fell I could catch him. There could be some kind of safety device underneath as well.

 

[Purdue#1]

The less advanced dogs are hooked up to a long line. The dog in the pic is actually hooked up to a long line. and richling, warren,tony, and the other dog owners all spot you.

the stave is about a 4th. of an inch thick and it is very flexible.

Nice pic melissacato.

 

[Labra]

Wow, that poor Doberman who featured in those videos could not look more miserable if he tried. That is NOT what a happy dog looks like.

That kind of obstacle is great training for a service dog who needs to be comfortable in many situations and in many kinds of footings. Imagine a SAR dog who wouldn't climb a pile of rubble to search for survivors because he lacked confidence in himself? It'd be a useless dog.

But how many search and rescue dogs are going to attempt to climb a near vertical wall? actually, 'attempt' is the wrong word. No dog could PHYSICALLY climb a vertical wall, so it seems pointless if you ask me. I don't really like the idea of putting a pet dog, who is never likely to 'work' a day in its life, under such stress. I can't imagine that the dog gains anything pleasurable from struggling to climb up what is essentially a huge vertical wooden climbing frame. Unlike cats, dogs are not natural climbers so it seems very, very wrong to me.

 

[Dekka]

Hitting a dog with a stick of any kind is wrong. SO its thinner and will sting more..thats supposed to be a good thing?

 

[DanL]

Dekka, didn't you say you did Schutzhund with your JRT's? I seem to remember someone with JRT's saying they had done some sessions. If you are participating in sports like Sch, ringsport, or the kind of stuff we're starting with Gunnar, getting hit with a stick is eventually going to be part of the game. It tests the dogs nerves and willingness to focus on it's target while the "bad guy" is trying to make him break off.

I wouldn't use a stick to train basic obedience, but it does have it's place in bitework and protection training. It's not "wrong" in that venue.

 

[DanL]

But how many search and rescue dogs are going to attempt to climb a near vertical wall? actually, 'attempt' is the wrong word. No dog could PHYSICALLY climb a vertical wall, so it seems pointless if you ask me. I don't really like the idea of putting a pet dog, who is never likely to 'work' a day in its life, under such stress. I can't imagine that the dog gains anything pleasurable from struggling to climb up what is essentially a huge vertical wooden climbing frame. Unlike cats, dogs are not natural climbers so it seems very, very wrong to me.

Maybe never, but what about a sheer cliff where a kid has fallen and is trapped? Maybe a dog never climbs anything like that in real life, but you train for the extreme, not the common. Like an athlete pushes themselves past the conditions they will experience in their sport. A dog gets confidence handling an obstacle like that, anything it will encounter outside of that will be a piece of cake.

 

[Dekka]

No I would love to though...a bit to small for most Schutzhund trainers, though I know they would be game enough. No correct me if I am wrong. The stick in Schutzhund is not used for training (as in dog doesn't sit, so whack the dog) its used to incite/arouse, and test character when doing bite work?

That is a different ball game. Its not punishment. Most dogs doing bite work seem to see the stick as part of playing a rousingly great rough housing game..with rules. I love the way a good dog's eyes light up when they see the sleeve.

 

[DanL]

That's correct Dekka, it's used to excite the dog, not to correct.

I'll never disagree with you on using a stick to train a dog, I'd never do that. I was trying to point out that stick hits are not uncommon in dog sports that have a protection element.