Your Definition of Ethics

[sportingdogs]

I didn't mean that the question of ethics doesn't matter.....I should have phrased it as "What does it matter to Summit what other people's idea of ethics are?

I don't see anything wrong with breeding pets b/c they are nice or pretty. As long as everyone is healthy, go for it....AND, that the puppies will have a good home to go to or stay in the home they were born into. I do think that there are too many dogs in shelters, but I also believe that a lot of these dogs are in shelters b/c people are too concerned with having the perfect dog by "breed standards" and these shelter dogs are not good enough for them.

What I don't believe in is all this breeding to get the perfect dog so that the owner can win a title and get recognition. This to me is all about greed. And this goes back to my last statement about shelter dogs not being good enough for some....

I'm logging off, won't be back on until tomorrow... I'm sure I'll have a lot to respond to.

The owner does not "win a title"...the DOG does. Responsible breeders don't breed to "get the perfect dog"..b/c there is no such thing. Greed?? Let's talk about GREED: backyard breeders counting the cash as it rolls in on their untested, untitled, ill-temperemented (perhaps) Fluff and Muff and then doing it again "next year" because it was just so much fun and they need a new widescreen; commercial breeders who actually DO breed FOR PROFIT...a business...do you think these people care about the IDEAL dog?? Heavens, no!!

A lot of those dogs are in shelters because every third person on your street (for example) decided it would be nice to let Molly have just one litter! Multiply that by the population of one city, one state...the whole country...you get the picture. At least I hope you do.

Showing and breeding well-bred dogs is NOT about GREED. Please speak only of that which you know something about. Apparently you know nothing about showing and proper breeding.

 

[mjb]

I am not knowledgeable enough about this subject to know the differences between a good breeder and a bad breeder. However, before I got my present dog (a pound puppy), I did talk to some breeders. I got nervous when I would think one was pretty good and then talk to another breeder who would tell me to steer clear of the one I thought was good. I did find one breeder that stood out from all the rest for quite a few reasons. A big part of what impressed me about her was the fact that she did rescue work. She fostered rescues of her breed and of mixes that were partially her breed. She had less than a litter a year. She would put you on a waiting list after she approved you and your home. And after you went through her process and were approved, if you were wanting a puppy sooner, she would lead you to a couple of breeders that she trusted. She even suggested a different breed puppy that would suit my needs that was a more common breed, if I didn't want to wait on one of hers. She didn't know any breeders of that breed to recommend, though. I felt very good about dealing with her.

 

[sportingdogs]

I am not knowledgeable enough about this subject to know the differences between a good breeder and a bad breeder. However, before I got my present dog (a pound puppy), I did talk to some breeders. I got nervous when I would think one was pretty good and then talk to another breeder who would tell me to steer clear of the one I thought was good. I did find one breeder that stood out from all the rest for quite a few reasons. A big part of what impressed me about her was the fact that she did rescue work. She fostered rescues of her breed and of mixes that were partially her breed. She had less than a litter a year. She would put you on a waiting list after she approved you and your home. And after you went through her process and were approved, if you were wanting a puppy sooner, she would lead you to a couple of breeders that she trusted. She even suggested a different breed puppy that would suit my needs that was a more common breed, if I didn't want to wait on one of hers. She didn't know any breeders of that breed to recommend, though. I felt very good about dealing with her.

Definitely sounds like a responsible breeder!

I bred my first litter this year (well, last year technically--born in February); and while I am unable to foster dogs NOW...I spent my first several years involved in my breed DOING rescue, fostering dogs, one after the other. It gave me a lesson in proper placement, contracts, etc... some breeders are unable to foster due to their own dogs...one has to be understanding of that. However, you can volunteer for rescue without actually fostering a homeless dog. I still do transports, educate about the breed, etc.. there is plenty to do in rescue work, not just taking a dog or dogs into your home. When I only had one or two dogs of my own, that was feasible; now it is not. One shouldn't fault a breeder for that

 

[LabBreeder]

That's the same thing I said in my post. I got the quote directly from the OFA website as well. But thanks for the pedigree info.

Ok, so I did it recently, and here is the deal on prelims.....

In order to have the info posted and displayed in the data base, you must do two things:

You must have the dog permanently ID's. Tattoo or chip will do.
You must you MUST check the box to release ALL RESULTS, normal or abnormal.

Any animal can be screened and evaluated by the OFA. Permanent ID is NOT required, however, dogs screened without permanent ID have this noted on their numbers....it will state NOPI at the end of the number. Or PI is the dog IS permanently ID'd.

If you have not visited the OFA's website recently, they have updated it, and it is an incredible pedigree research tool.

http://www.offa.org

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Hi, SD, welcome to Chaz.

 

[lakotasong]

Now on to how eveyone says that health screening is so important....Cancer, Heart Disease, Altzheimers (sp?) all runs in my family, so does that mean I should never have children? This goes back to the greed comment I made about how some want the perfect dog (in their eyes). The perfect dog to me has nothing to do with looks or "breed standards", it's the personality. I understand things like 2 Aussie Merle's can't be bred b/c the pups will more than likely be blind and/or deaf, there are certain circumstances, but that's not health screening, that's general knowledge about a breed.

Regarding mixed breeds. If someone wants to cross one breed with another, it's their choice. If you believe that 2 different breeds should absolutely not be bred, then your also saying that different races of people should not have kids. And that is racism folks....

It's very sad to me that you feel this way and edited by a mod = no name calling Comparing dogs to humans as you've done doesn't work, sorry. Two totally different topics. We aren't euthanizing people by the thousands.

 

[lakotasong]

I agree with you there. A dog with a known disease or health problem should not be bred. But all this looking back 6 generations to find faults in the line is just going overboard.

I do believe though that cross breeding different breeds is okay. Nothing at all wrong with a mutt.

Let me add this, I never have and never will breed any dogs. I've thought about it but decided against it.

Pedigree research involving health is crucial. There are some genetic diseases in which dogs can be carriers but not have the actual problem themselves (PRCD for example). Your line could breed clear for generations, but the dogs might be carriers. If you breed these dogs to the wrong pedigree, you can produce effected pups.

You're right, there is nothing wrong with a mutt. I've fostered and rescued many, and currently own one. However, breeding mutts ("designer mixes") is not ethical. There's no real reason to do it other than to produce cute pups to sell, which is wrong.

And as for your last two sentences - let me say I'm glad.

 

[lakotasong]

My opinion? I plan to breed. This is my first and will not be my last. I also think of my dogs as "my family". They get treated better most of the time!

 

[lakotasong]

There are also a lot of other great foods available also. Does any one else have any suggestions for her?

Innova (I'm an EVO fan), Royal Canin, Eagle Pack, Annamaet.

 

[lakotasong]

And ethics are all opinion. Everyone has a different one.

You know what people say about opinions....

And no, ethics are not just a matter of opinions. Codes of Ethics are put out by purebred parent clubs and should be adhered to for the sake of the dogs.

 

[lakotasong]

And I think your bitch is supposed to be on a puppy food with extras, isn't she? I've never bred so don't know.

I've never fed puppy food once in my life to any dog, pregnant bitch or litter of puppies. The litters I raised were raised on high quality performance adult food and raw, and that's what the mothers were fed.

IMO many breeders don't research nutrition nearly enough. Their puppies do fine, but they could do better!

 

[lakotasong]

Ok, laugh point whatever.

But why should the breeder be involved with a rescue??? Sorry, I just don't get it.

No laughing and pointing here. You asked a good question. If you're producing dogs, IMO you should also be involved in helping clean up what other people have irresponsibly produced. I worked in SPCAs for two years, ran my own Siberian rescue, and have volunteered for rescue/SPCA/transport since I ride my bike to the local shelter as a kid.

It sets a good example. It shows that you are truly concerned about your breed as a whole, even the less fortunate, poorly bred dogs.

 

[lakotasong]

I think it shows they really care about the welfare of animals and that they are dedicated to their breed (if it's a breed rescue). It also shows that they aren't just producing puppies for money and that they are aware of the problems in the pet 'industry' and why it's important to breed ethically.

Well said.

 

[lakotasong]

I agree, If you dont rescue, dont breed.

One of my favorite quotes is this:

If you breed, rescue.
If you don't rescue, don't breed.
If you don't breed, rescue anyway!

 

[lakotasong]

Does it have to be with an "official" rescue organization or can the breeder do their own "rescue". Ya know, they find a stray dog, take care of it, vet check, shots and find it a good home.

IMO if you are breeding you should be at least somewhat involved in rescue for your particular breed (be it transport, foster care, doing home checks in your region, etc). Though any and all rescue efforts get a big kudos from me.

 

[lakotasong]

To me saying that you have to go by the breeders code of ethics.. ( I think that's what it was called) is like saying you have to go by the Bible.. I don't think it's fair to just assume the way you do things is always the right way, just because you have some code of ethics to back it up.

Christians aren't being euthanized by the thousands. Again, people vs dogs is not a legitimate comparison in breeding.

 

[lakotasong]

Please speak only of that which you know something about. Apparently you know nothing about showing and proper breeding.

Commenting heavily on areas one is not experienced or educated in really irks me.

 

[Squidbert]

Christians aren't being euthanized by the thousands. Again, people vs dogs is not a legitimate comparison in breeding.

I'm not comparing humans vs dogs.

I'm comparing two different belief systems..

Totally different.

 

[Roxy's CD]

Ohhh kay... I get it now.

That does make sense.

I think a lot of people naively breed, and most of them I think immediately realize their mistake. Others, like the quick easy cash and continue...

 

[sportingdogs]

Hi, SD, welcome to Chaz.

Thanks RR! This looks like a neat forum!