Would you let an 8 yr old child

cvcraven

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#41
I'm curious about the answer as well, cvcraven.

That's a cute picture of you and your son, but I'm confused. How does that picture show that you're not sexist? Is it because you're a woman? I've met a TON of sexist women, so that doesn't prove much.

Sorry, I read that as someone assuming I was a guy. :rofl1: I know I'm not well known on here and my screen name isn't any help.

I'm a firm believer that any church doctrine or belief must be backed up with scripture. I have no problems with traditions as long as they are not contradictory to scripture.

1Timothy 3:8-13 - Deacons
3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not two-faced,not given to excessive drinking, not greedy for gain, 3:9 holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 3:10 And these also must be tested first and then let them serve as deacons if they are found blameless. 3:11 Likewise also their wives must be dignified, not slanderous, temperate, faithful in every respect. 3:12 Deacons must be husbands of one wife and good managers of their children and their own households. 3:13 For those who have served well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and great boldness in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
It only refers to Men. :)

1Timothy 2:11-12 Authority
2:11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

I know my beliefs aren't popular with many but it's what I believe. :)


Sorry to the original poster for the massive thread hijack.
 

noludoru

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#42
Agreed. Dance of the Dissident Daughter, anyone?
I don't get the reference. Is it a book?

CVCRaven, your beliefs aren't popular because they are so deeply rooted in misogyny it makes most of us sick. Not because they aren't cool or because they come from the bible, but because the original writings are sexist. And that doesn't fly with me, I'm afraid.

And, btw - chaz is 90% women. We assume, until told otherwise, that you are a woman. Besides, I remember that picture of yo so I already knew. LOL
 

JennSLK

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#43
Now Im not a reilgious person. But they way I took the scriptures is that woman must lay down and take anything and everything from a man?
 

SizzleDog

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#44
I don't get the reference. Is it a book?
Yes, it's a book, written by a pastor's wife. The author has many religious books under her belt, but one day she woke up and realized she was the victim of misogyny. Her daughter was working at a local grocery store and was stocking the bottom shelves. Two men observed this, and one mentioned that that's how he liked to see women - on their knees. The girl looked up and they laughed at her - she was embarassed, and bowed even closer to the floor... Little did they know the author saw and heard all of this, and was horrifed. She walked over to her daughter, and together they faced the men. The author said to them, "You may like to see her and other women on their knees, but we don't belong there. We don't belong there!"

The book gets a little hokey at times, but all in all, for what it's worth... it's a good read.
 

SizzleDog

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#45
2:11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.
No thank you. I'll pass.
 

mjb

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#46
Like she said, it's not a popular belief. And it's very hard to distinguish it from being sexist, if it isn't. I don't know her, but I can believe she's not sexist.

My father, the minister, interprets these scriptures the same as she did...no women in the ministry. I have come to understand that he is not sexist. He has 2 daughters and a son and sent all of us to college, not just the son. He was very supportive of my wanting to become a veterinarian, even though our rural county didn't have one female vet. (I did not end up majoring in Vet. Med). He has voted for females running for political offices. He would support a woman for president if she was running on a platform he agreed with. I can't think of any job that he thinks a woman shouldn't have and isn't qualified for, including police and fire fighter. Well, he might not like women in combat duty.....I can't remember on that. He is quite proud that one of his granddaughters is about to receive her PhD in BioChemistry from UNC.

He just thinks the Bible states no women teaching in the church. He and I used to argue about this, but no longer. And I no longer think he thinks any less of women.....just that the Bible specifies different duties 'inside the church' based on gender.
 

JennSLK

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#47
Im sorry but to me anyone who thinks a woman cant do something because shes a woman is sexist. They may not be horribly sexist but they are still a bit sexist and that just doesnt fly with me
 

noludoru

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#48
Like she said, it's not a popular belief. And it's very hard to distinguish it from being sexist, if it isn't. I don't know her, but I can believe she's not sexist.
Nope, when you believe sexist things and live by sexist principles.. You're definitely sexist. Basically, when you shape your life around beliefs that women are lesser than men (or vice versa, but you don't see much of that) or spout incredibly sexist things and believe them, you are sexist.

sexist -
1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
3. The belief that one sex (usually the male) is naturally superior to the other and should dominate most important areas of political, economic, and social life. Sexist discrimination in the United States in the past has denied opportunities to women in many spheres of activity.

Those bits of scripture are incredibly sexist. When one believes them, lives by them, that person is also a sexist. It's not exactly rocket science. I'm not sure exactly what part you are referring to as "hard to distinguish as sexist" but I hope I spelled it out for you!

Im sorry but to me anyone who thinks a woman cant do something because shes a woman is sexist. They may not be horribly sexist but they are still a bit sexist and that just doesnt fly with me
Ditto. I mean, you may not exactly be a misogynist or anything.. but you're still really, really sexist.
 

mjb

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#49
Those bits of scripture are incredibly sexist. When one believes them, lives by them, that person is also a sexist. It's not exactly rocket science. I'm not sure exactly what part you are referring to as "hard to distinguish as sexist" but I hope I spelled it out for you!
How I worded it was very difficult to understand. I said those scriptures were hard to distinguish from being sexist, if they aren't sexist. I can see where you thought I was saying that they did NOT seem sexist.

I guess what I was trying to say and wording terribly is that it's hard to read those scriptures as non-sexist, if, indeed they are non-sexist.

Believe me, I can definitely see this scripture exactly like you do.

And my father (and mother) might be sexist....he's 83 and I'm sure he has a different view of the sexes than my generation does. I guess what I'm sure of is that he doesn't think women are less able than men, less important than men, beneath men. But, you're right. He's of a generation that probably does view things differently, and maybe it is sexist, to an extent.

This is someone else's subject to defend, though. I have mostly argued your side of this one in the past. I will have a hard time stepping to the other side and arguing against you.
 

smkie

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#50
You all need to start your own thread.:rolleyes: ;)
ANd for the record she can attend a church with a woman pastor, a man pastor, a black and white and purple with pink polka dots preacher as long as she is gaining the kind of experiences i think will help her with this gynormous question of faith. THis is the very reason i want her to be able to make up her own mind on what is best for her when it comes to what she wants to believe.
 
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#51
I haven't read all of the responses but no, I wouldn't. I'm don't follow any specific religion but that isn't even the reason. I had an extremely bad experience with a neighbor and his family's after school bible study group when I was about 8 years old. Another when I was 14, different people, different religion.

I am not closed minded but when it comes to religion I know enough about the passion that many people of certain faiths feel about trying to convert or indoctrinate. An 8 year old is very impressionable and when the subject is religion, a subject that has caused so much pain and hate in this world, I'd want to be present while my child 'learns'.

I can say that this has come up many times over the last several years with my son who is now 23. He had some very close friends of different religions who were very involved with their churches. Jordon did not attend any religious 'teaching' functions with them but still seemed to understand and accept both the differences and the similarities between them.

Jordon did attend Jewish Camp when he was younger for a few summers. They did not include religious studies in their camp program. He had a blast but was not amused to find that he was the only one not circumsized!:rofl1:
 
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noludoru

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#52
I guess what I was trying to say and wording terribly is that it's hard to read those scriptures as non-sexist, if, indeed they are non-sexist.
Okay, THAT made sense. I kept scratching my head and wondering exactly what you had meant by that comment, lol!

But I stand by my assertions that those scriptures are sexist. Why?


1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
Check! They discriminated against women by not letting them hold positions of power, or even exercise authority over a man. I would definitely call that discrimination.

2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender. Check! Women should be quiet, submissive wives who have lots of babies.

3. The belief that one sex (usually the male) is naturally superior to the other and should dominate most important areas of political, economic, and social life. Sexist discrimination in the United States in the past has denied opportunities to women in many spheres of activity. I would call the position of a Deacon an important political/social figure. Not sure about economic. Unless males aren't actually superior deacons and better than women when placed in positions of power, there is no real reason they shouldn't be. Denying a woman the opportunity to become a deacon is sexist discrimination. Check, check, check, check!

And, to recap,

Nope, when you believe sexist things and live by sexist principles.. You're definitely sexist. Basically, when you shape your life around beliefs that women are lesser than men (or vice versa, but you don't see much of that) or spout incredibly sexist things and believe them, you are sexist.
I hope I've explained it all thoroughly. :)

Believe me, I can definitely see this scripture exactly like you do.

And my father (and mother) might be sexist....he's 83 and I'm sure he has a different view of the sexes than my generation does. I guess what I'm sure of is that he doesn't think women are less able than men, less important than men, beneath men. But, you're right. He's of a generation that probably does view things differently, and maybe it is sexist, to an extent.

This is someone else's subject to defend, though. I have mostly argued your side of this one in the past. I will have a hard time stepping to the other side and arguing against you.
You certainly don't need to debate me on the topic. :) And I agree with you - it IS a different generation. But you know what? That generations oppression of women, and the women who could look past it all and FIGHT for what they believed and knew to be true have given us THIS reality, instead of being completely mired in that sort of thinking. So it's not entirely horrible - I can definitely see a silver lining to that thinking. :D Okay, well maybe it is entirely horrible, but still... at least it isn't the norm of today. My explanation was more for everyone else, as I think you've more than got it, LOL!
 

smkie

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#53
I am sorry Drlitte, and that is why i started this thread was to gain from other's experiences. I was not raised with religion tho i attended the Church every sunday for a zillion years because my best friend had to go and if i didn't she couldn't associate with me. One of the many reasons i have a problem with so many organized religion.
 

Barb04

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#54
I think letting her experience different religions to eventually make up her own mind as to what she believes in is a wonderful idea. Great parenting!
 

Kayota

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#55
I am Atheist and have a girlfriend who is Satanist -shrugs- Neither of those religions [or non-religions in my case] hurt people [not her type of Satanism anyway, I swear she doesn't sacrifice chickens! Or cats!], and I think what you are doing is excellent.
 

smkie

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#56
THis is day three, and all i am hearing about is how much she loves the teacher and how she is "just like you nana". THey play games, sing songs, and eat. Nothing about being sent to hell, or how she should join the church. SO it seems to be low key. SHe was asked to bring in toys that she no longer plays with to share with other children that might not have as much, i am ok with that too. Sunday will be the last day and for that i am greatful. IT has been running from 7 -9 getting her to bed way past her bedtime and with the sugary drinks it is insane to try to get her to bed in time. WE get up early because if you wait even until 8 it is too hot to walk and i can't take the dogs without her. So not walk for anyone to day and they are just climbing the walls.
 
M

MyHorseMyRules

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#57
I haven't read all the responses, but I'll throw in my two cents. I think it's a great idea to allow her to experience different religions. I think you should be aware of where she is going and who she is going with, though, as she is still very young. I would also encourage her to wait to make a decision on what religion she wants to be until she is older. I may be a bit biased because I went to different churches until I was seventeen, then made my choice. But I think what you're doing with her is a great idea. I think she will most likely come away from it with good friends and experiences, as well as an open mind. Another plus is that she will be well informed about the different religions, which will help her to recognize rumors for what they are.
 

Boemy

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#58
I think it's a good idea, but personally I would go with her at first. I would also not send her to the same church all the time, but vary it with churches of different faiths (including non-Christian places of worships.) :)
 

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