Why I Dont Neuter

[oc_spirit]

I was asked to write this up by a member on another forum and I thought I would share it here as well....

I will try to make this post as comprehendible as possible but no promises…it’s been one of “those” days, if you know what I mean LOL Also before I begin I would just like to make it clear that this post is not intended to try to advocate keeping a dog intact, this is simply my own reasons for not neutering as I was asked to state in another post. Let it be known that I am all for neutering a pet dog. However, I also believe that no owner should be swayed to make the decision to neuter simply because people around them are recommending that it is the right thing to do (by moral standards only). I believe all responsible owners should find out the pros and cons to neutering and the pros and cons to leaving a dog intact before finalizing their decision.

I will leave all my dogs intact unless a genetic, health or behavioral issue arises that either needs to be fixed via neutering OR is something that I definitely do not want passed on such as deformities. By behavioral I don’t mean the dog leg-humping or marking or some other behavior that can be corrected via training, I’m talking about something along the lines of two males constantly at each other’s throats, or severe aggression in a breed that should not have any aggression such as the Siberian Husky. Here’s why…

All my sledding mentors have told me that an intact dog heals faster from illness and injury than a neutered dog. This is important to me because if one of my sled dogs gets injured somehow or falls sick I need them to get healthy again as fast as possible so they can get back in harness and keep racing. Plus, as I have stated in the past, every dog that I own will be a working dog so again, if one of them gets sick or injured I need them to heal quickly to get them back to doing their job. Granted thus far this has not been provided to me as medical fact, only countless numbers of years working with literally 100s if not 1000s of different dogs. I am planning on asking my vet about this particular matter soon and I will also be taking this to Guelph University (one of the best universities for veterinary medicines and agriculture) to find out what they have to say on the matter. None the less though, I trust my mentors and take what they have to say very seriously so even if the vet studies come back inconclusive this point will still stick with me.

No one can be 100% sure on whether a dog is worthy of being bred or not until they are fully mature which doesn’t happen until at least 2 years of age and sometimes later for some breeds. With this in mind I don’t believe in neutering a dog before at least 2 years when it can be properly evaluated. They need those hormones for proper growth as well. Dogs neutered early result in the lack of those crucial hormones which can have adverse effects in the way that they grow such as males looks feminine and females appearing too dog-ish.

"Castration weakens all dogs to some degree." So says Leon F. Whitney, D.V.M. He goes on to explain: "Castration, whether of dogs or bitches, produces marked changes over the normal. The earlier the operation is performed, the more marked are the changes.” Taken from http://www.courageouscaucasians.com/neutering.htm

Neutered animals also do gain weight faster than intact ones due to excess water retention. While this can be controlled with diet and exercise, I need my guys to be able to take in extra fat and protein and not have it turned into fat but FUEL. I’m constantly battling with OC’s weight trying to find the comfort zone between providing him with enough calories to perform optimally with sledding and not having his body simply taking it in and adding to his waist.

Yes neutering can decrease the chances of cancers such as testicular cancer and mammary cancer, but it can also INCREASE the chances of bone cancer and others. Also it makes the dogs more susceptible to viruses. Progesterone is a more powerful anti-inflammatory than even cortisone and neutering lowers the level of progesterone. The same thing happens in women who go through menopause. Women who were very healthy post-menopause suddenly become effected by immune-mediated diseases and cancers. For more information on this check this site out http://www.dogtorj.net/id57.html Thank you to Kayla from Chazhound for showing me this link.

Even though neutering is a common surgery using just a general anesthesia there is ALWAYS a risk with it. All my future dogs will be carefully selected for their working ability and at times this may mean I got the chance of a life time pup perhaps from a very remote breeder who usually keeps their pups or only gives to very close friends. I’m not going to risk losing a pup on a table for a surgery it doesn’t even necessarily need.

“…keeping him intact may serve a purpose: maintaining his maximum musculature as he ages to help deal with the muscle loss that comes from the inevitable arthritis.” Taken from http://www.dolittler.com/index.cfm/2006/11/26/pet.vet.dog.cat.vs101.11.26.06

Not only is keeping a dog’s musculature important for potential eventual loss of muscle, it is also important for the dog to perform optimally. I don’t really care about the muscles for the looks. Sure a ripped dog looks awesome but I’m not after the appearance, I’m after the practicality. And besides, the breeds I am most interested in have double-coats so you can’t really see the musculature anyways LOL

I believe I have covered all my reasons for leaving my dogs intact, if I have missed any and think of them later I will be sure to post them. It is important to remember that many people including many vets and breeders have a bias to neutering so they will try to push it upon you. When trying to find information regarding neutering look for people who have an unbiased opinion or at least will give you all the facts straight up. It has been my observations through doing these studies that often if someone gives the only pros to leaving a dog intact to be “showing purposes and breeding” they either have a bias or they are simply uneducated or perhaps even ignorant. It would be wise to take what they say with a grain of salt and continue on with your research.

If you do decide to leave your dog intact, remember it comes with a huge responsibility!!! Some precautions to take are:

- do not let them wander around areas that could have bitches in heat
- do not allow unsupervised interacting between intact males and unspayed females even if they aren’t in heat (some heats are very subtle so she could be in heat and her owner just hasn’t noticed)
- keep the dogs securely confined and males separate from females especially during heats
- keep the dogs on leash when outside of fenced areas
- know your female’s heat cycle and do not let her out of your site during and after ovulation
- be smart

There are exceptions to the rules at times such as, it would not be reasonable to keep an intact livestock guarding dog behind a fence all the time when his job is to protect a free-roaming flock of sheep from predators. Or if you own an intact male and female and know for sure that the female is not in heat. Like the last point says, just be smart about it. Use common sense and you shouldn’t have any problems

If you have any questions regarding anything I have written please ask me about it and ask me to clarify and dont just point fingers and start accussing as I have had happen before on forums from people who obviously just like to start trouble. Oh ya and please dont throw all kinds of ""why I shuld neuter"" websites at me, I have read them, I know the reasons, after all they were part of my research and decision making before I came to the conclusion I have. This is all my opinion, not something I am trying to preach to others. Take it as you will.

 

[oc_spirit]

Another great link to look at! Although this deals more with early VS later neutering as opposed to whether or not to neuter at all...Still has some very valid points to consider though!

http://caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

 

[Kase]

That was a really interesting read!

 

[sam]

interesting

Do you only have intact males or do you have intact bitches as well ? Are you able to keep your intact males together unsupervised , or do they need to be separated?

I haven't thought about this issue at any length since my dogs have all come as fixed young adults from a rescue group (where dogs are pretty much always fixed before being rehomed). So this is just rambling thoughts:

I would find having an intact bitch difficult. I think especially given that we go daily to places with the dogs off leash, travel and compete and heat cycles are long and can be hard to predict. I don't own the kind of dogs you keep on leash all the time unless you live on a decent amount of land and can run and work them safely at home- which I don't.

It certainly seems as if there are valid reasons to keep a dog /bitch intact at least until they are full grown and mature, beyond that I'm not so sure.
I guess it's always a choice between the small chance of early speuter health problems and whatever the chances are of unwanted / accidental litters-- depending on the owners that risk can be greater of smaller.

I'll be interested to hear what you find out about delayed healing in speutered animals. That's not one I've heard before. The excuse I hear most often from old herding guys is that dogs don't work as well after they are fixed-- persoanlly I tend to think that's hogwash and I'm not sure how they would know to compare since they never neuter anyway LOL. The potential of delayed healing I don't think it would be a huge consideration for me - I don't plan on doing things with a large propensity to injure the dogs. Although I suppose herding and agility injuries do happen.

In my area there are just sooo many unwanted dogs. Far more dogs than homes and I see first hand the problems that people NOT spaying and neutering dogs brings. In the USA between 4-8 million healthy dogs are euthanised every year-- staggering. To me that is a HUGE problem with horrible consequences for dogs. At one point and still may be now, the humane society had to run the incinerator 24/7 to dispose of al the corpses of euthanised animals Of course this isn't people who are making some choice based on health. They don't speuter because they can't be bothered and wouldn't spend the money. A different issue than responsible owners who are doing the research, being conscientious and willing to keep animals separated confined and always on leash etc.

I guess because I work work with and am exposed to exposed to the rescue issues and see first hand the exponential effect, even one whoopsie litter is a BIG deal to me and it does happen- even when people have the best of intentions. Again this is mostly an issue of irresponsible owners but with heat cycles being hard to predict esp with young dogs they certainly do happen.

I have heard of a problems associated with early spaying (before the first heat) but the incidence seems to be fairly low and I haven't heard of any once the bitch is fully mature.
I think based on what I know, I would wait to spay a bitch sometime after the first heat but I definetly would spay.

My only experience of living withan intact male was a couple months with a young intact male foster and it was GROSS. That guy was H-O-R-N-E-Y and just DYING to get to other dogs all the time. He was very difficult to live with intact and neutering did settle him and decrease his nonstop humping. I know not all intact males are like that.

My friends who have kept intact males for a period of time and run their dogs at off leash areas have said that they seem to be a target of bullying by neutered males and that it stops after they are neutered.

I also think about the issue of sexual frustration & freedom-- I think in a way it's a bit cruel or at times problematic to keep a sexually intact young dog with no sex life, who will never have a sex life and who can never be allowed off leash? I suppose that depends on the situation-- I haven't done much research or really thought that through.

I think what's in the best interest of the dog depends on many factors mostly on what the owner has planned for the dog and how responsible they can be. I think it's great that the issue is at more of the forefront and research is being done so that we can do what's healthiest and makes the most sense for our dogs.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Sorry, but I don't agree with much of what you say. I worked as a vet tech for several years and we saw hundreds and hundreds of sled dogs (Iditarod dogs as well as sprint dogs). It's a myth that neutering decreases a dog's ability to work. Many sled dog people propogate that myth, unfortunately.

I have never heard of a dog healing faster because he's intact either .. another myth, I'm sure. I've seen NO difference in healing time between intact animals and neutered animals - and believe me, we did plenty of surgeries and saw plenty of injuries on both.

I also don't see why neutering causes water retention. Where is the scientific fact behind that? Neutering decreases a dog's natural desire to find a mate, which lowers their natural exercise level and they will gain weight if not exercised and monitored. But water retention? That's a new one to me. Water retention and fat are two separate issues.

So while you recommend to others that they take what people say with a grain of salt, I really encourage people to take what you say with a grain of salt and remember that it is opinion and not necessarily fact. I think you are vastly misinformed, unfortunately. You have your beliefs but they're kind of typical for sled dog people who (in my experience) just don't want to neuter (because of expense or whatever).

Let's talk about the number of sled dogs I saw with prostrate problems because they were intact in a sled yard with females in heat .. you just have to feel sorry for these poor frustrated male dogs, prostrates swollen to the point where they're urinating blood just because somebody didn't want to neuter.

I can understand not neutering until a dog reaches full growth. But then there's really no reason not to neuter if you're not going to breed, and lots of reasons TO neuter. If it's a monetary thing, then people shouldn't have so many dogs. Fear of anesthesia on a young healthy dog should be pretty much nil these days .. death from neutering is extremely rare - EXTREMELY. You have as much risk of a reaction to anesthesia as you do any medication/wormer etc. you give your dog.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[oc_spirit]

Sam, depends on the time and depends on the dogs LOL Sometime I have females around here or stay with intact females same goes with intact males.

I keep the intact males and intact females seperated. All the intact males can be loose together and do not fight, even with a bitch in heat on the property. We do not leave them unattended simply because it''s a LOT of dogs but they are still loose for a while. Ronan cant be in that group though as he is a bit ornery sometimes not because of a female being present but because of OC being present (he''s super protective of his ""lil brother"").

In the end, I have done my research, I have talked to many vets, I have talked to many mentors (including non-mushers ) and I have come to my final decision Is it the right one for anyone and everyone? No. But it is the right one for me.

 

[snowflake]

Well said Melanie, . Except when I was showing dogs I have always had my dogs and bitches neutered Those are beautiful dogs that you have.

Helen

 

[shadowfacedanes]

Here is another article that touches base on altering and possible health implications.

This is written by by a canine oncologist. I find it very interesting reading.

http://www.geocities.com/rottndobie/SpayNeuterCancers.pdf


(By the way, I'm not saying I am for or against spaying and neutering. I do a lot of reading about canine cancer because my last dane, Shelby was claimed by cancer. This is just one article among 100's that I've come across on canine cancer).

 

[GSDluver4lyfe]

Well ALL my working dogs will stay intact because I say so, no explanation or justifications needed.

 

[Groch]

OC_Spirit,

A very well thought out post. But one part bothers me. You say at the start that you are for neutering dogs if they are pets but against it for your sled dogs.

Yet, nearly all of the benefits you mention matter just as much to pet owners as they do to folks whose hobby is sledding.

I want any of my dogs to heal as quickly from injuries and illness as possible. Maybe I do not have to get them right back to a race but I certainly want them to mature correctly and not be stunted.

I understand that if you are a competitive racer that having potential greater musculature may give you and edge, but I do not see how a sled dog has any more of a right to a healthy life without higher chance of bone cancer or risky operations than a show dog, or a pet, or even a mutt.

I guess my confusion is that I do not see how sled racing, or hunting, or showing dogs or owning a pet matters to this decision. Dogs are great companions, and or great hobbies (sledding and showing) but it is all just other ways to enjoy dogs.

 

[RD]

Interesting read, Ren, Sam and Melanie.

Personally, I'm okay with speutering my dogs but I definitely prefer to let them mature first. I've seen dogs that were early (before 1 year) speuters and they weren't just physically different, they were mentally different. It's hard to explain, and I guess it wasn't always a negative kind of different, but I prefer the look and maturity level of the dogs that were speutered after they reached at least physical maturity - particularly in males.

Something about the early speuter dogs seems immature. They act like overgrown puppies in their interactions with other dogs. They tend to start fights, the ones I knew at the dog park that always got into trouble were the early speuters. They'd bounce around, provoke another dog and then get defensive when corrected. My intact dog of the same breed would just back off and accept that he made a mistake.

I'm of the opinion that those hormones are there for a reason, and to modify my dog at a young age isn't in their best interest.

As for overpopulation - it all comes down to being responsible. If you (generic you, btw) can't train your dog or keep it contained, please neuter it.

(Btw, I have one neutered dog and am neutering my other dog in the next month or two. Not because I can't stand having an intact dog, but because I will have an intact bitch in the house and don't want to deal with him stressing during her heat cycles.)

 

[Roxy's CD]

Sam- Let's say you adopted an intact male, and somehow they had found out that he did not handle aneasthetic (sp?) well. So therefore, you could not neuter him.

Putting all of the reasons aside, like, "he's horny", the chances of YOU personally allowing him to impregnate a bitch are pretty unlikely right?

I understand your reasoning for average joe pet owners. The risk is just to great. But for responsible dog owners, keeping a dog intact for your own, well-researched reasons, I see nothing wrong with it. For those who say it's misinformed, I understand both sides of the fence. Both sides I'm sure could find a tonne of links to websites by well reputed veterinarians stating their side was right and the other was wrong. A lot of this dog stuff is personal opinion, personal experience etc.

In my personal opinion, both of my dogs were speutered at 6 months of age, quite young, and we haven't had any issues. Sure maybe Roxy is dog-ish and Hades is definitely bitchy, (LMAO) but really, for what we do, their physical appearance as long as their healthy doesn't really matter does it? They definitely don't compete in confirmation and Hades has more than enough muscle tone to do what we do.

Groch, your whole post was, well, put a different spin on the OP than where I was headed with it. LOL

RD- You posted at the same time as me. That's interesting about early neutered males. But to me, it seems more like a personal preference, or a personal lifestyle that it would affect. For example, my personal lifestyle does not allow my dogs to interact with strange dogs at any given time. My dogs are never loose with any dog other than my parents dog. Period. So the point you spoke of, of being "immature" with other dogs at the park would only really apply if your allowing your dog off leash with strange dogs. Correct me if I've misunderstood

 

[oc_spirit]

Groch, I say that because as others have mentionned if not on this forums then other where I have posted this article, that the average pet owner does not take the proper precautions to responsibly house an intact dog. They allow their bitch in heat to be off lead, they allow their intact male who is only reliable on 50% of commands to go hiking off lead, they make sure their fence is only good enough to keep their dogs in and not also other dogs out (providing they even HAVE a fence) and so on. If you or other pet owners can honestly say that you can reliably keep an intact dog without having any accidents, then sure, leave your dog intact if you really truly feel it is for the best.

 

[Sugardog]

It's a personal decision really.

OC has reasons for leaving her dogs intact and she is being responsible about it by keeping the males and females seperated and containing them. There is no reason for anybody to criticize her decision about leaving her dogs intact.

I will be getting into rescue work later in life and personally, I will have every dog that comes to me spayed or neutered before it leaves. I may be responsible enough to keep them contained so they don't get impregnated or impregnate another dog, and I have the knowledge and patience to deal with estrus drippings, marking, and other natural occurances or behaviors that come with a non speutered dog. But the person who adopts the dog from me may not want to deal with that or may make irresponsible decisions to breed because "he's such a great dog" or "I want another dog just like her". Plus I'll be dealing with mutts alot, so there's no reason whatsoever to leave them intact.

 

[ToscasMom]

Gosh what did I do. Tosca had her hormones taken away from here and looks doggish. She is never going to get a date to the prom now for sure.

 

[Roxy's CD]

LMAO@Tosca's Mom!

Well seeing as there isn't a HUGE line up of boy dates for her, she'll have to just deal with having a pussy Hades take her! ROFL

Hades can give her tips on what to wear and she can beat up anyone that wants to start a fight with him! LMAO

 

[sam]

Sam- Let's say you adopted an intact male, and somehow they had found out that he did not handle aneasthetic (sp?) well. So therefore, you could not neuter him.

Putting all of the reasons aside, like, "he's horny", the chances of YOU personally allowing him to impregnate a bitch are pretty unlikely right?

I

I can't really imagine a dog coming to me unneutered with a problem with anesthetic. Anesthesia has come so far and a dog's first anesthetic is typically his neuter/ spay. BUT I own high drive , high energy dogs who run my dogs off leash DAILY. My dogs are exposed to other dogs DAILY. Through the summer months and again when I have this baby, my dogs will be walked off leash with me pushing a stroller while they retrieve balls or frisbees-- that's not a life I could have with an intact dog. (You can control your dog but not everybody elses) I personally don't think it's responsible to have an intact dog off leash so therefore because of my life and my circumstances, I wouldn't choose to adopt / buy a dog I couldn't speuter.

There may come a time in my life where that would change ie when my kids are grown up or if we moved to an acreage. I would actually like to someday get a registered aussie and put a versatility title on it so that would require keeping a dog intact until it has it's CH so maybe - but it would be speutered pretty soon after

 

[Roxy's CD]

I understand what your saying, but my point was just that you could very well own an intact dog and be responsible enough to prevent it from having "whoopsie" litters. LOL. It doesn't suit your lifestyle (as it doesn't mine) but the point is that your responsible enough to be able to have an intact dog, as are many on this board. The fact that they chose to s/n is besides the point.

I think aside from behavioural issues, or not wanting to deal with heats etc, the number one reason that most people condone speutering is to prevent unwanted or un-NEEDED (had to make up a word there) litters. Something that the average joe pet owner doesn't fully understand so therefore they should s/n.

The educated responsible pet owner could come up with a million reasons other than unwanted puppies to s/n, but all I'm trying to say is that there are people out there, that can responsibly keep an intact dog.

 

[ToscasMom]

Hades can give her tips on what to wear and she can beat up anyone that wants to start a fight with him! LMAO

LOL Roxy. Sounds like a match made in heaven!

 

[Groch]

...... all I'm trying to say is that there are people out there, that can responsibly keep an intact dog.

Absolutely right. There are also many people out there who can drive a semi tractor trailer, but we do not just take their word for it, they need to pass a test and get a license.

The two issues are not exactly the same. If a semi gets out of control people die, if an intact dog does only dogs can get killed.

OC_Spirit, I thought your answer about what it takes to responsibly keep intact dogs was great, and I do believe you have the knowlege and facilities to do it right. I do not think that is true for the vast majority of owners, like me.

Point is dogs are property and we have the right to do what we want with them. I just hope people reading your posts take the warnings as seriously as the benefits.