oh wait..you did say you'd urge your inferior to act. sure, Lil. that always works, cause he's Paterno ...he must have had some big power. I won't continue. you have all the answers. I get it. you're angry. who isn't. I just wish some people would see past what media programs them to see. oh..not YOU, Lil. you're all too smart. right? LOL. continue on...
What is your major malfuction?!?!
- Thread starter Lilavati
- Start date
Look . . . I think the man should have been fired. He was. As far as I'm concerned, its over. I don't think he's the devil, I don't think he should be vilified. I think he should have done more. I think he could have done more, and as the incredible outpouring of support shows: this guy had power and could have used it. I'm NOT especially angry with him, as I've said several times. I'm frustrated, and annoyed, but not so much at him as at his rabid fans.
I am angry that people are rioting to defend him. I think its insane.
Do I think there was a cover up? **** straight. I think that someone, somewhere in the heirarchy (and it may well not have been Paterno) decided that they did NOT want it going public that the former Defensive coordinator was raping kids in the shower. And so they told McQueary, and everyone else who knew not to talk. And they didn't. That is called a cover up. That is called burying something embarassing to the university. And Paterno, McQaery, and everyone else was complicit. Its not a fast conspiracy, its a case of CYA . . . but a very serious case of CYA.
McQeary, the witness, former quarterback, should have gone to the police. Paterno, the most famous and influental of the people involved, McQaery's former coach, the face of Penn State football, should have urged him to go the the police. Should have ordered him to. Should have told his superiors to order him to. He didn't. He deserved to be fired, and he was. I'm not sure why McQaery still has a job, except that they were perhaps afraid it would be interpreted as firing him for being a witness and talking to the grand jury.
None of which is really the point. I'm appalled at the rioting. I didn't give a crap about Paterno before this, and I really don't care all that much now. He's one of a number of people who do not do what they should have. That's it. He's one of a number of people who should lose their jobs, and did. What I'm revolted by his the constant excuses for him, and in particular, the students rioting because he was fired. Perhaps reasonable people can differ over whether he should have lost his job. However, overturning news trucks because a football coach was fired for not doing more because of a child rape is completely f-ing wacko.
And yes, when you are that prominent, its very likely you will be listened to in the police station. They can't prosecute based on that. They can't make an arrest. But they CAN question the supposed witness. And if a famous football coach walks in and says one of my assistants saw something and is afraid to come forward . . . they'll do something.
But that's not what he really had to do. However, I doubt it would have come to that. If Paterno had really wanted the administration to do something, they would have. All he had to do was threaten to quit. But again, he's not the most at fault. McQaery is and those further up in the hierarchy who also decided not to act (and have been indicted).
The media has made this all about Paterno, which is stupid. But Paterno's FANS have also made this all about Paterno. Which is why I'm talking about the guy, and defending the university trustees' decision. Otherwise, he was a minor player in a very, very nasty scandal.
See past the media programs . . what? That they are talking about the famous guy? Yep, they do that. Which I ignored . . .until the riot.
I am angry that people are rioting to defend him. I think its insane.
Do I think there was a cover up? **** straight. I think that someone, somewhere in the heirarchy (and it may well not have been Paterno) decided that they did NOT want it going public that the former Defensive coordinator was raping kids in the shower. And so they told McQueary, and everyone else who knew not to talk. And they didn't. That is called a cover up. That is called burying something embarassing to the university. And Paterno, McQaery, and everyone else was complicit. Its not a fast conspiracy, its a case of CYA . . . but a very serious case of CYA.
McQeary, the witness, former quarterback, should have gone to the police. Paterno, the most famous and influental of the people involved, McQaery's former coach, the face of Penn State football, should have urged him to go the the police. Should have ordered him to. Should have told his superiors to order him to. He didn't. He deserved to be fired, and he was. I'm not sure why McQaery still has a job, except that they were perhaps afraid it would be interpreted as firing him for being a witness and talking to the grand jury.
None of which is really the point. I'm appalled at the rioting. I didn't give a crap about Paterno before this, and I really don't care all that much now. He's one of a number of people who do not do what they should have. That's it. He's one of a number of people who should lose their jobs, and did. What I'm revolted by his the constant excuses for him, and in particular, the students rioting because he was fired. Perhaps reasonable people can differ over whether he should have lost his job. However, overturning news trucks because a football coach was fired for not doing more because of a child rape is completely f-ing wacko.
And yes, when you are that prominent, its very likely you will be listened to in the police station. They can't prosecute based on that. They can't make an arrest. But they CAN question the supposed witness. And if a famous football coach walks in and says one of my assistants saw something and is afraid to come forward . . . they'll do something.
But that's not what he really had to do. However, I doubt it would have come to that. If Paterno had really wanted the administration to do something, they would have. All he had to do was threaten to quit. But again, he's not the most at fault. McQaery is and those further up in the hierarchy who also decided not to act (and have been indicted).
The media has made this all about Paterno, which is stupid. But Paterno's FANS have also made this all about Paterno. Which is why I'm talking about the guy, and defending the university trustees' decision. Otherwise, he was a minor player in a very, very nasty scandal.
See past the media programs . . what? That they are talking about the famous guy? Yep, they do that. Which I ignored . . .until the riot.
I have. It was total hearsay, but I trusted the source and I reported it. My superior did nothing and I heard more hearsay and went to the police. The guy was arrested less than a year later.
I don't care if students are rioting, I don't care if a football team loses a coach, I'm sorry, I just don't. Doesn't hit my radar. What does hit my radar is that 8 boys were sexually abused and there were adults (plural - adults) who could have stopped it and didn't. I don't even care how they should have gone about stopping it, all I know is that this went on for 15 years and nobody ended it.
Ask any kid who's been abused, chances are excellent that there WAS an adult who could have protected them who didn't. Whether it was fear, not wanting to "meddle", not wanting to stick their neck out, whatever, I don't care. You suspect abuse of one not able to speak for themselves, you move mountains to stop it. And you don't stop until the abuse stops. Anything less is unacceptable to me. And if for whatever reason you don't step in to defend the defenseless, then I don't care who you are and what else you've done with your life, you deserve every single thing Karma throws at you.
Yes this is a topic I feel very strongly about.
I don't care if students are rioting, I don't care if a football team loses a coach, I'm sorry, I just don't. Doesn't hit my radar. What does hit my radar is that 8 boys were sexually abused and there were adults (plural - adults) who could have stopped it and didn't. I don't even care how they should have gone about stopping it, all I know is that this went on for 15 years and nobody ended it.
Ask any kid who's been abused, chances are excellent that there WAS an adult who could have protected them who didn't. Whether it was fear, not wanting to "meddle", not wanting to stick their neck out, whatever, I don't care. You suspect abuse of one not able to speak for themselves, you move mountains to stop it. And you don't stop until the abuse stops. Anything less is unacceptable to me. And if for whatever reason you don't step in to defend the defenseless, then I don't care who you are and what else you've done with your life, you deserve every single thing Karma throws at you.
Yes this is a topic I feel very strongly about.
Dane, the reason I care about the rioting . . . is that this went on for fifteen years . . . and 2000 students riot because they fire one of the guys who could have stopped it. Its beyond belief.
The fact that this was that there were many people who could have stopped it and didn't . . . that's the most horrifying thing at all . . . although I'm not even remotely surprised. Shocked, but not surprised. The rioting surprised me. The doing nothing . . . I'm afraid it didn't.
The fact that this was that there were many people who could have stopped it and didn't . . . that's the most horrifying thing at all . . . although I'm not even remotely surprised. Shocked, but not surprised. The rioting surprised me. The doing nothing . . . I'm afraid it didn't.
Chiming in from happy valley, AND I work with kiddos 
I loved JoePa as much as the next person, but he seriously let us down here, and it's depressing. I hate the thought of his ending his career like this, but at the same time he failed us all, as a human being, in a big way.
As part of the school, I believe that makes him what we call a "mandated reporter" - regardless of how he felt about Sandusky or if he even BELIEVED McQuearly, it was his job to report the incident (probably to childline or just straight up the police). Even if he isn't a mandated reporter (which how he would escape that is beyond me), it's just his duty as a person... especially one we've expected moral greatness of for so long.
And no, if you're not part of the Penn State community, you'll never "get it" but here's the best thing I've read so far:
We need to talk about sexual abuse.
Like most of you, I’ve spent the last three days obsessed with Penn State. I’ve read all the news articles and Facebook posts and Tweeted my heart out. There’s been debate about who stays, who goes, who knew what when, who was at fault. There’s been a lot of talk about how to restore Penn State pride.
But no one is talking about sexual abuse.
Paterno is gone. Spanier is gone. Even still, I bet that there is at least one pedophile currently in the Penn State system. I can guarantee that within the next weeks, more children will be sexually abused in State College.
Because listen: if Joe Paterno can’t be counted on to be a totem of moral clarity and decisive action, how many other people do you think fall short?
The conclusion to draw from these horrific crimes is not that Penn State is less good than we once thought it was. The conclusion should be that if a sexual abuse case of this magnitude can happen at Penn State, we have a serious, serious problem on our hands.
I’ve read numerous variations on the idea that the men involved in this scandal don’t represent the school or its ideals. That’s ridiculous. They were out there every day, building the Grand Experiment, promoting Penn State as a place where values matter. They believed it, with every fiber of their being.
It’s also wrong to say they did everything they were expected to. One sick man did horrible things, and a lot of good men let it happen.
The shorthand for this scandal is that Paterno, Curley, Spanier and Shultz said, “Well, Sandusky is a child molester, but we’ll keep it under wraps because we don’t want to embarrass the team.†To write that script makes easy villains and allows us to play the moral hero.
But time and time again, studies show that people confronted with sexual abuse are unable to do the right thing, unable to process the scope of the crime. They take the information they have and rationalize it. They compartmentalize. They try to put it out of their head.
To think that way is weak. It’s cowardly and selfish.
It’s also not unique to Penn State.
We as a society just cannot comprehend child sexual abuse. It’s awful. It’s barbaric. It’s unspeakable - so much so that we just don’t speak about it. We cannot believe it goes on in our neighborhoods; we cannot comprehend that it could happen under our noses. It takes 12 years of abuse and a major criminal investigation to get us to pay attention.
When we do pay attention, we address the individual actors: cast them as aberrations from the rest of society, proudly declare that we would do differently in their shoes.
But child sex abuse keeps happening. Good people keep turning a blind eye. Institutions keep finding themselves without a framework to handle a crime of this magnitude.
That the narrative of the Penn State Scandal thus far has focused on the past, on the big-deal firings without any emphasis on how to prevent sexual abuse in the future, is a travesty – but it’s not unexpected.
Which is why I can’t get on board with the scapegoaters, who say that firing everyone and bulldozing Beaver Stadium is the only way to make this right. That answer lets us block off the part of our hearts where Penn State – abuse and all – once lived, and therefore feel like we've addressed the issue. (We haven't.)
I also can’t support the cheerleaders, who insist that a little major crimes and the ‘mistakes’ of a few men shouldn’t get in the way of bleeding blue and white as usual. That answer allows us to cut the abusers and enablers out of our Penn State experience. It allows us to continue adoring our school as if things haven’t changed. (They have.)
This is a big, scary, problem, and I understand the impulse to pick a side, to decide immediately that you are with Penn State or against it. But there is grace in the inbetween: in fear and anger mixed in with pride and love. In wallowing in how awful and confused you feel, in letting yourself be depressed and distraught, in thinking that JoePa failed in a big way but still wishing he could coach that last home game.
Our school is in a tremendous position to take the lead on a problem that is severely under-discussed in this country; to move beyond the clichés and damage control and start making a big difference in how we as a society deal with sexual abuse. Of all the schools in the nation, I think Penn State is uniquely equipped with the courage, honesty, and generosity required to go forth and make change.
This is going to be a long process. It’s going to require leadership and kindness and the ability to hear some hard truths and ask some awful questions.
There’s no comfort in knowing that the exact same pattern that played out at Penn State has played out over and over again in similar cases, but there is redemption in trying to break that cycle.
(by Kate Dailey)
I loved JoePa as much as the next person, but he seriously let us down here, and it's depressing. I hate the thought of his ending his career like this, but at the same time he failed us all, as a human being, in a big way.
As part of the school, I believe that makes him what we call a "mandated reporter" - regardless of how he felt about Sandusky or if he even BELIEVED McQuearly, it was his job to report the incident (probably to childline or just straight up the police). Even if he isn't a mandated reporter (which how he would escape that is beyond me), it's just his duty as a person... especially one we've expected moral greatness of for so long.
And no, if you're not part of the Penn State community, you'll never "get it"
but here's the best thing I've read so far:We need to talk about sexual abuse.
Like most of you, I’ve spent the last three days obsessed with Penn State. I’ve read all the news articles and Facebook posts and Tweeted my heart out. There’s been debate about who stays, who goes, who knew what when, who was at fault. There’s been a lot of talk about how to restore Penn State pride.
But no one is talking about sexual abuse.
Paterno is gone. Spanier is gone. Even still, I bet that there is at least one pedophile currently in the Penn State system. I can guarantee that within the next weeks, more children will be sexually abused in State College.
Because listen: if Joe Paterno can’t be counted on to be a totem of moral clarity and decisive action, how many other people do you think fall short?
The conclusion to draw from these horrific crimes is not that Penn State is less good than we once thought it was. The conclusion should be that if a sexual abuse case of this magnitude can happen at Penn State, we have a serious, serious problem on our hands.
I’ve read numerous variations on the idea that the men involved in this scandal don’t represent the school or its ideals. That’s ridiculous. They were out there every day, building the Grand Experiment, promoting Penn State as a place where values matter. They believed it, with every fiber of their being.
It’s also wrong to say they did everything they were expected to. One sick man did horrible things, and a lot of good men let it happen.
The shorthand for this scandal is that Paterno, Curley, Spanier and Shultz said, “Well, Sandusky is a child molester, but we’ll keep it under wraps because we don’t want to embarrass the team.†To write that script makes easy villains and allows us to play the moral hero.
But time and time again, studies show that people confronted with sexual abuse are unable to do the right thing, unable to process the scope of the crime. They take the information they have and rationalize it. They compartmentalize. They try to put it out of their head.
To think that way is weak. It’s cowardly and selfish.
It’s also not unique to Penn State.
We as a society just cannot comprehend child sexual abuse. It’s awful. It’s barbaric. It’s unspeakable - so much so that we just don’t speak about it. We cannot believe it goes on in our neighborhoods; we cannot comprehend that it could happen under our noses. It takes 12 years of abuse and a major criminal investigation to get us to pay attention.
When we do pay attention, we address the individual actors: cast them as aberrations from the rest of society, proudly declare that we would do differently in their shoes.
But child sex abuse keeps happening. Good people keep turning a blind eye. Institutions keep finding themselves without a framework to handle a crime of this magnitude.
That the narrative of the Penn State Scandal thus far has focused on the past, on the big-deal firings without any emphasis on how to prevent sexual abuse in the future, is a travesty – but it’s not unexpected.
Which is why I can’t get on board with the scapegoaters, who say that firing everyone and bulldozing Beaver Stadium is the only way to make this right. That answer lets us block off the part of our hearts where Penn State – abuse and all – once lived, and therefore feel like we've addressed the issue. (We haven't.)
I also can’t support the cheerleaders, who insist that a little major crimes and the ‘mistakes’ of a few men shouldn’t get in the way of bleeding blue and white as usual. That answer allows us to cut the abusers and enablers out of our Penn State experience. It allows us to continue adoring our school as if things haven’t changed. (They have.)
This is a big, scary, problem, and I understand the impulse to pick a side, to decide immediately that you are with Penn State or against it. But there is grace in the inbetween: in fear and anger mixed in with pride and love. In wallowing in how awful and confused you feel, in letting yourself be depressed and distraught, in thinking that JoePa failed in a big way but still wishing he could coach that last home game.
Our school is in a tremendous position to take the lead on a problem that is severely under-discussed in this country; to move beyond the clichés and damage control and start making a big difference in how we as a society deal with sexual abuse. Of all the schools in the nation, I think Penn State is uniquely equipped with the courage, honesty, and generosity required to go forth and make change.
This is going to be a long process. It’s going to require leadership and kindness and the ability to hear some hard truths and ask some awful questions.
There’s no comfort in knowing that the exact same pattern that played out at Penn State has played out over and over again in similar cases, but there is redemption in trying to break that cycle.
(by Kate Dailey)
((Also, I find the media disturbing - anyone who isn't privy to what happened is liable to turn on the TV and think Paterno's the rapist here... Sandusky who? It's disgusting. We should probably spend more time focusing on the fact that there were victims - CHILDREN - who were basically told "what happened to you is OK. And don't bother asking for help, because the adults who are supposed to protect you, won't."))
ADDITIONALLY - please don't let the riots shock you... we riot when we lose games, we riot when we WIN games... it's an extremely stupid and frightening part of living here.
ADDITIONALLY - please don't let the riots shock you... we riot when we lose games, we riot when we WIN games... it's an extremely stupid and frightening part of living here.
Joe Paterno was a failure in a chain of failures. He wasn't the most responsible, but he did deserve to lose his job for his inaction subsequent to his initial report. How could he stand to even be in the presence of Sandusky knowing what he did?
Sandusky needs to go to h3ll. McQuery needs a kick in his non-existent balls.
Sandusky needs to go to h3ll. McQuery needs a kick in his non-existent balls.
Kate Dailey's post is excellent. We DO need to talk about abuse. It does happen. And it goes un-reported over, and over, and over again.
Another thoughtful piece:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15668834?OCID=fbusbbc
I've spent my entire adult life working with children. I began my teaching career at a home for children, wards of the state. I have worked with the most toe curling cases of abuse you could imagine, scratch that, most people can't imagine the extent of abuse people can perpetrate.
When you leave a child to continue to suffer you can bet there were other adults in the same position who failed that child too. And you can bet the kid knows it. So not only do they have to deal with the fact that they're being abused, they have to deal with the fact that in the eyes of these "caring adults" they weren't even worth the effort to protect.
Those poor kids... That's all I can think about. You know they're following this too. And they see exactly what I see. Nobody gives a sh*t that they were RAPED by Sandusky. All people care about is Paterno this, Paterno that... How poor Paterno was unfairly treated. Paterno, who with all his power, didn't think those 8 young men were worth moving mountains to protect. That's a hard wound to heal.
Another thoughtful piece:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15668834?OCID=fbusbbc
I've spent my entire adult life working with children. I began my teaching career at a home for children, wards of the state. I have worked with the most toe curling cases of abuse you could imagine, scratch that, most people can't imagine the extent of abuse people can perpetrate.
When you leave a child to continue to suffer you can bet there were other adults in the same position who failed that child too. And you can bet the kid knows it. So not only do they have to deal with the fact that they're being abused, they have to deal with the fact that in the eyes of these "caring adults" they weren't even worth the effort to protect.
Those poor kids... That's all I can think about. You know they're following this too. And they see exactly what I see. Nobody gives a sh*t that they were RAPED by Sandusky. All people care about is Paterno this, Paterno that... How poor Paterno was unfairly treated. Paterno, who with all his power, didn't think those 8 young men were worth moving mountains to protect. That's a hard wound to heal.
Chiming in from happy valley, AND I work with kiddos
I loved JoePa as much as the next person, but he seriously let us down here, and it's depressing. I hate the thought of his ending his career like this, but at the same time he failed us all, as a human being, in a big way.
As part of the school, I believe that makes him what we call a "mandated reporter" - regardless of how he felt about Sandusky or if he even BELIEVED McQuearly, it was his job to report the incident (probably to childline or just straight up the police). Even if he isn't a mandated reporter (which how he would escape that is beyond me), it's just his duty as a person... especially one we've expected moral greatness of for so long.
And no, if you're not part of the Penn State community, you'll never "get it" but here's the best thing I've read so far:
We need to talk about sexual abuse.
Like most of you, I’ve spent the last three days obsessed with Penn State. I’ve read all the news articles and Facebook posts and Tweeted my heart out. There’s been debate about who stays, who goes, who knew what when, who was at fault. There’s been a lot of talk about how to restore Penn State pride.
But no one is talking about sexual abuse.
Paterno is gone. Spanier is gone. Even still, I bet that there is at least one pedophile currently in the Penn State system. I can guarantee that within the next weeks, more children will be sexually abused in State College.
Because listen: if Joe Paterno can’t be counted on to be a totem of moral clarity and decisive action, how many other people do you think fall short?
The conclusion to draw from these horrific crimes is not that Penn State is less good than we once thought it was. The conclusion should be that if a sexual abuse case of this magnitude can happen at Penn State, we have a serious, serious problem on our hands.
I’ve read numerous variations on the idea that the men involved in this scandal don’t represent the school or its ideals. That’s ridiculous. They were out there every day, building the Grand Experiment, promoting Penn State as a place where values matter. They believed it, with every fiber of their being.
It’s also wrong to say they did everything they were expected to. One sick man did horrible things, and a lot of good men let it happen.
The shorthand for this scandal is that Paterno, Curley, Spanier and Shultz said, “Well, Sandusky is a child molester, but we’ll keep it under wraps because we don’t want to embarrass the team.†To write that script makes easy villains and allows us to play the moral hero.
But time and time again, studies show that people confronted with sexual abuse are unable to do the right thing, unable to process the scope of the crime. They take the information they have and rationalize it. They compartmentalize. They try to put it out of their head.
To think that way is weak. It’s cowardly and selfish.
It’s also not unique to Penn State.
We as a society just cannot comprehend child sexual abuse. It’s awful. It’s barbaric. It’s unspeakable - so much so that we just don’t speak about it. We cannot believe it goes on in our neighborhoods; we cannot comprehend that it could happen under our noses. It takes 12 years of abuse and a major criminal investigation to get us to pay attention.
When we do pay attention, we address the individual actors: cast them as aberrations from the rest of society, proudly declare that we would do differently in their shoes.
But child sex abuse keeps happening. Good people keep turning a blind eye. Institutions keep finding themselves without a framework to handle a crime of this magnitude.
That the narrative of the Penn State Scandal thus far has focused on the past, on the big-deal firings without any emphasis on how to prevent sexual abuse in the future, is a travesty – but it’s not unexpected.
Which is why I can’t get on board with the scapegoaters, who say that firing everyone and bulldozing Beaver Stadium is the only way to make this right. That answer lets us block off the part of our hearts where Penn State – abuse and all – once lived, and therefore feel like we've addressed the issue. (We haven't.)
I also can’t support the cheerleaders, who insist that a little major crimes and the ‘mistakes’ of a few men shouldn’t get in the way of bleeding blue and white as usual. That answer allows us to cut the abusers and enablers out of our Penn State experience. It allows us to continue adoring our school as if things haven’t changed. (They have.)
This is a big, scary, problem, and I understand the impulse to pick a side, to decide immediately that you are with Penn State or against it. But there is grace in the inbetween: in fear and anger mixed in with pride and love. In wallowing in how awful and confused you feel, in letting yourself be depressed and distraught, in thinking that JoePa failed in a big way but still wishing he could coach that last home game.
Our school is in a tremendous position to take the lead on a problem that is severely under-discussed in this country; to move beyond the clichés and damage control and start making a big difference in how we as a society deal with sexual abuse. Of all the schools in the nation, I think Penn State is uniquely equipped with the courage, honesty, and generosity required to go forth and make change.
This is going to be a long process. It’s going to require leadership and kindness and the ability to hear some hard truths and ask some awful questions.
There’s no comfort in knowing that the exact same pattern that played out at Penn State has played out over and over again in similar cases, but there is redemption in trying to break that cycle.
(by Kate Dailey)
I loved JoePa as much as the next person, but he seriously let us down here, and it's depressing. I hate the thought of his ending his career like this, but at the same time he failed us all, as a human being, in a big way.
As part of the school, I believe that makes him what we call a "mandated reporter" - regardless of how he felt about Sandusky or if he even BELIEVED McQuearly, it was his job to report the incident (probably to childline or just straight up the police). Even if he isn't a mandated reporter (which how he would escape that is beyond me), it's just his duty as a person... especially one we've expected moral greatness of for so long.
And no, if you're not part of the Penn State community, you'll never "get it"
but here's the best thing I've read so far:We need to talk about sexual abuse.
Like most of you, I’ve spent the last three days obsessed with Penn State. I’ve read all the news articles and Facebook posts and Tweeted my heart out. There’s been debate about who stays, who goes, who knew what when, who was at fault. There’s been a lot of talk about how to restore Penn State pride.
But no one is talking about sexual abuse.
Paterno is gone. Spanier is gone. Even still, I bet that there is at least one pedophile currently in the Penn State system. I can guarantee that within the next weeks, more children will be sexually abused in State College.
Because listen: if Joe Paterno can’t be counted on to be a totem of moral clarity and decisive action, how many other people do you think fall short?
The conclusion to draw from these horrific crimes is not that Penn State is less good than we once thought it was. The conclusion should be that if a sexual abuse case of this magnitude can happen at Penn State, we have a serious, serious problem on our hands.
I’ve read numerous variations on the idea that the men involved in this scandal don’t represent the school or its ideals. That’s ridiculous. They were out there every day, building the Grand Experiment, promoting Penn State as a place where values matter. They believed it, with every fiber of their being.
It’s also wrong to say they did everything they were expected to. One sick man did horrible things, and a lot of good men let it happen.
The shorthand for this scandal is that Paterno, Curley, Spanier and Shultz said, “Well, Sandusky is a child molester, but we’ll keep it under wraps because we don’t want to embarrass the team.†To write that script makes easy villains and allows us to play the moral hero.
But time and time again, studies show that people confronted with sexual abuse are unable to do the right thing, unable to process the scope of the crime. They take the information they have and rationalize it. They compartmentalize. They try to put it out of their head.
To think that way is weak. It’s cowardly and selfish.
It’s also not unique to Penn State.
We as a society just cannot comprehend child sexual abuse. It’s awful. It’s barbaric. It’s unspeakable - so much so that we just don’t speak about it. We cannot believe it goes on in our neighborhoods; we cannot comprehend that it could happen under our noses. It takes 12 years of abuse and a major criminal investigation to get us to pay attention.
When we do pay attention, we address the individual actors: cast them as aberrations from the rest of society, proudly declare that we would do differently in their shoes.
But child sex abuse keeps happening. Good people keep turning a blind eye. Institutions keep finding themselves without a framework to handle a crime of this magnitude.
That the narrative of the Penn State Scandal thus far has focused on the past, on the big-deal firings without any emphasis on how to prevent sexual abuse in the future, is a travesty – but it’s not unexpected.
Which is why I can’t get on board with the scapegoaters, who say that firing everyone and bulldozing Beaver Stadium is the only way to make this right. That answer lets us block off the part of our hearts where Penn State – abuse and all – once lived, and therefore feel like we've addressed the issue. (We haven't.)
I also can’t support the cheerleaders, who insist that a little major crimes and the ‘mistakes’ of a few men shouldn’t get in the way of bleeding blue and white as usual. That answer allows us to cut the abusers and enablers out of our Penn State experience. It allows us to continue adoring our school as if things haven’t changed. (They have.)
This is a big, scary, problem, and I understand the impulse to pick a side, to decide immediately that you are with Penn State or against it. But there is grace in the inbetween: in fear and anger mixed in with pride and love. In wallowing in how awful and confused you feel, in letting yourself be depressed and distraught, in thinking that JoePa failed in a big way but still wishing he could coach that last home game.
Our school is in a tremendous position to take the lead on a problem that is severely under-discussed in this country; to move beyond the clichés and damage control and start making a big difference in how we as a society deal with sexual abuse. Of all the schools in the nation, I think Penn State is uniquely equipped with the courage, honesty, and generosity required to go forth and make change.
This is going to be a long process. It’s going to require leadership and kindness and the ability to hear some hard truths and ask some awful questions.
There’s no comfort in knowing that the exact same pattern that played out at Penn State has played out over and over again in similar cases, but there is redemption in trying to break that cycle.
(by Kate Dailey)
Good post Plottmom.
I honestly don't know how this has come down squarely on Paterno's shoulders. LIke he is this big super power that can stop all evil in this world and he is all anyone cares about. As you can see in this thread people are out there thinking paterno is the one that raped these kids, etc etc. People only hear what the media tells them and have no facts and that's really really sad. Joe Paterno has become the sacraficial lamb and McQuery is coaching the football team? How the hell does that happen? How does Joe get eternal damnation and McQuery gets the top spot. Seems to me that McQuery is the more guilty of the two parties if we are going to play this silly game of who didn't do what well enough and what does he get? a football team and 84 year old paterno is out on his can and plastered as the poster boy for child abuse. WTF?
ETA: I just heard McQuery is on leave now... but originally he was supposed to coach todays game.
I honestly don't know how this has come down squarely on Paterno's shoulders. LIke he is this big super power that can stop all evil in this world and he is all anyone cares about. As you can see in this thread people are out there thinking paterno is the one that raped these kids, etc etc. People only hear what the media tells them and have no facts and that's really really sad. Joe Paterno has become the sacraficial lamb and McQuery is coaching the football team? How the hell does that happen? How does Joe get eternal damnation and McQuery gets the top spot. Seems to me that McQuery is the more guilty of the two parties if we are going to play this silly game of who didn't do what well enough and what does he get? a football team and 84 year old paterno is out on his can and plastered as the poster boy for child abuse. WTF?
ETA: I just heard McQuery is on leave now... but originally he was supposed to coach todays game.
He's on leave because he was getting death threats. Which as much as I feel he, the witness, should have done more, is totally inappropriate.
I have a hunch as to why he's still there (other than that they are running out of coaches and cancelling the game is totally unfair to the completely innocent kids on the team). I suspect he was threatened with termination if he talked back when this happened. (Which does not excuse his not reporting it). That puts the school in a really ugly situation if they fire him now. Basically, it lays them wide open to a lawsuit from him if they told him not to talk, then fire him now for not talking (it also makes them look worse). Moreover, if they'd fired him right after this broke, it would have been understood by many to be firing him for talking to the grand jury.
With McQueary, they really can't win, especially if they told him not to talk, and from the chain of events, I would be surprised if that is not what happened. Fire him, get sued and be seen as raving hypocrites. Don't fire him and be seen as sheltering someone who was, as a practical matter, in one of the best positions to put an end to this, because he was witness.
I have a hunch as to why he's still there (other than that they are running out of coaches and cancelling the game is totally unfair to the completely innocent kids on the team). I suspect he was threatened with termination if he talked back when this happened. (Which does not excuse his not reporting it). That puts the school in a really ugly situation if they fire him now. Basically, it lays them wide open to a lawsuit from him if they told him not to talk, then fire him now for not talking (it also makes them look worse). Moreover, if they'd fired him right after this broke, it would have been understood by many to be firing him for talking to the grand jury.
With McQueary, they really can't win, especially if they told him not to talk, and from the chain of events, I would be surprised if that is not what happened. Fire him, get sued and be seen as raving hypocrites. Don't fire him and be seen as sheltering someone who was, as a practical matter, in one of the best positions to put an end to this, because he was witness.
Excuse me?! You find it SILLY to examine what adults should have done to protect children from being RAPED??
I absolutely loathe to get personal on the internet, but it has occurred to me that the odds are excellent that there are victims of abuse reading this thread and they might benefit from what I have to say.
Decades ago I was the victim of sexual abuse by a trusted adult. It was textbook case, the man worked with children, had a "way" with kids, was revered in the community, blah blah. He chose his victims wisely, told us not to say anything, gave us special privileges and made us feel special for being "chosen". At the time I did not know about the other girls, but I did know that what he was doing was wrong and shameful, and in my child's mind that made me wrong and shameful. And worse, I liked the extra attention which just added fuel to the self loathing. This went on for years.
In the middle of all of this, scandal broke out, and he was accused by a different girl. It was all swept under the rug, and other than the school dropping his program, nothing changed. Parents continued to send their children to him, adults who worked with him continued to look away. I was actually asked if he had touched me and I panicked at the look in that adults face and lied that he hadn't. Of course now I now how normal a reaction this was for an 8 year old, but at the time it was yet another cross for me to carry. Not only was I disgusting, I was also a liar and a coward.
Later in early adulthood I added the guilt that by my denial I subjected more girls to my same fate. But through it all was the internalized message that I was absolutely worthless. There were at least 4 adults who knew what was going on who for different reasons chose to look away and basically hung me out to dry. There was an entire community who could have protected me who chose not to address such an uncomfortable subject.
The lesson I learned at 8 years old was that my worth as a human being was far less important than the adult's need to maintain status quo and than the community's need to be comfortable. IOW that I was worthless.
This is the same message some posts in this thread are sending, whether you mean for them to or not.
__________________________________________
I absolutely loathe to get personal on the internet, but it has occurred to me that the odds are excellent that there are victims of abuse reading this thread and they might benefit from what I have to say.
Decades ago I was the victim of sexual abuse by a trusted adult. It was textbook case, the man worked with children, had a "way" with kids, was revered in the community, blah blah. He chose his victims wisely, told us not to say anything, gave us special privileges and made us feel special for being "chosen". At the time I did not know about the other girls, but I did know that what he was doing was wrong and shameful, and in my child's mind that made me wrong and shameful. And worse, I liked the extra attention which just added fuel to the self loathing. This went on for years.
In the middle of all of this, scandal broke out, and he was accused by a different girl. It was all swept under the rug, and other than the school dropping his program, nothing changed. Parents continued to send their children to him, adults who worked with him continued to look away. I was actually asked if he had touched me and I panicked at the look in that adults face and lied that he hadn't. Of course now I now how normal a reaction this was for an 8 year old, but at the time it was yet another cross for me to carry. Not only was I disgusting, I was also a liar and a coward.
Later in early adulthood I added the guilt that by my denial I subjected more girls to my same fate. But through it all was the internalized message that I was absolutely worthless. There were at least 4 adults who knew what was going on who for different reasons chose to look away and basically hung me out to dry. There was an entire community who could have protected me who chose not to address such an uncomfortable subject.
The lesson I learned at 8 years old was that my worth as a human being was far less important than the adult's need to maintain status quo and than the community's need to be comfortable. IOW that I was worthless.
This is the same message some posts in this thread are sending, whether you mean for them to or not.
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lots of pages! I just wanted to stop by yesterday and get a good debate thread going. seemed all snoozey in here. sorry, Lil. didn't mean to get all up at ya. no time to read all the pages, but I will add that if it hasn't been mentioned, that is one complete corrupt town. I hope that's where the feds decide to look after we're done with the great Paterno show. one mother did go to the police to report the abuse, and oddly the case was just closed. didn't the DA at the time go missing? his computer was completely damaged in a nearby lake, and since he was never found, he was proclaimed dead. way beyond anything just on that campus happened here. and I honestly could care less about Paterno. I just get sick of the hype to get the hounds away from the real evil. gotta go! since I don't have time to read, I'm sure some people had good stress release being angry at me. at least everyone is awake now.
at least everyone is awake now.
Yes thats what i meant. Give me a break. I think the idea that paterno is the ultimate evil because he did the SAME thing eeryone else did is ridiculous. Here we sit making excuses for McQueary and villifying paterno... Why? So i think if we are going to play the "who didnt do what well enough" there are lots of people to be pointing fingers at.... Instead paterno is taking the fall for the whole shebang. He is nothing but the sacrificial lamb. Thats what i find ridiculous and to be nothing but a silly game.
This isnt about protecting children.... This is about them trying to save face. There were a great many failures when it came to this situation but it seems the only one anyone cares about is joe paterno while eeryone else goes about their merry lives
This isnt about protecting children.... This is about them trying to save face. There were a great many failures when it came to this situation but it seems the only one anyone cares about is joe paterno while eeryone else goes about their merry lives
Part of the reason for this coming down on Paterno -- along with the fact that he is, after all, the face of the football program and the most public figure in all of it -- is his own doing in refusing to accept the offer to resign voluntarily or be fired and publicly announcing he was retiring at the end of the season, in essence, throwing down the gauntlet.
lots of pages! I just wanted to stop by yesterday and get a good debate thread going. seemed all snoozey in here. sorry, Lil. didn't mean to get all up at ya. no time to read all the pages, but I will add that if it hasn't been mentioned, that is one complete corrupt town. I hope that's where the feds decide to look after we're done with the great Paterno show. one mother did go to the police to report the abuse, and oddly the case was just closed. didn't the DA at the time go missing? his computer was completely damaged in a nearby lake, and since he was never found, he was proclaimed dead. way beyond anything just on that campus happened here. and I honestly could care less about Paterno. I just get sick of the hype to get the hounds away from the real evil. gotta go! since I don't have time to read, I'm sure some people had good stress release being angry at me. at least everyone is awake now.
at least everyone is awake now.
There is a lot going on with this but no one seems to are because they are all distracted by scape goat ploy
I never said to let him off the hook. If you look back in the thread you will see i dont feel that way at all. What i do disagree with is him taking the fall for the whole thing while the others who were just as responsible (if not more so) are skating by with no mention of their role. The fact that until
Mcqueary stared getting death threats (which i Think is terrible) he was going to get the head coach job...doesnt anyone find that odd? Paterno is out for not calling the police but mcqueary gets to stay and work when he is guilty of the exact same thing?
I just cant fathom why this is all joe paternos fault and everyone else involved is skating by without their names and families being dragged through the mud. Did paterno fail those kids? Sure... He should ha e done more but i sure dont think he deserves the rep he now had. People are comparing him to the man who actually raped those kids and i find that very unfair and unsettling.
Sacrificial lamb
Mcqueary stared getting death threats (which i Think is terrible) he was going to get the head coach job...doesnt anyone find that odd? Paterno is out for not calling the police but mcqueary gets to stay and work when he is guilty of the exact same thing?
I just cant fathom why this is all joe paternos fault and everyone else involved is skating by without their names and families being dragged through the mud. Did paterno fail those kids? Sure... He should ha e done more but i sure dont think he deserves the rep he now had. People are comparing him to the man who actually raped those kids and i find that very unfair and unsettling.
Sacrificial lamb