Westminster

[casablanca1]

I watched the hound and the herding groups (Go, Beardie!) and wondered if anyone else watching shared these impressions:

1) Pedigree's commercials with David Duchovny in sad voice-over talking about adopting shelter dogs made me cry every time I saw it (and I'm not a crier, but woooo, those eyes....)

2) That poor whippet who escaped from Kennedy Airport after last year's show has to be dead by now.

3) Vivi the whippet (Champion Bohem C'est la Vie) was only 3 when she ran away last year; this year, they showed her breeder with one of the pups from her sole litter--the pup was 2 this year, 1 when she ran away. Which means she was bred at 1 year. Is it just me, or is this early?

4) Those solemn descriptions of the breeds' origins they broadcast in Group classes are ludicrous. The announcer intoning that this or that breed was created to hunt raccoons or herd sheep... Breed origins are just breeder fantasy land. None of the breeds is 'ancient' and no AKC breed is particularly linked to its practical ancestors. Nothing against them, most people need a nice pet more than a nice sheepdog. But they lay it on a little thick at Westminster.

5) Is it just me or is it true that larger, shorter-coated and dark dogs have an advantage? I'm thinking there's an 'impressiveness' factor, that having a shorter, darker coat shows off conditioning and musculature more effectively. Just a casual impression I get from watching part of Westminster every year.

 

[snowflake]

I didnt realise they had never found the little whippet. What a loss. Its so hard to get over losing a dog but never knowing what happened must be so soul destroying. Can only hope that someone took her in and has her as a pet.

Perhaps it was a misprint in the paper saying her pup was 2 years old?

What sort of dogs do you have yourself?

Helen

 

[ToscasMom]

Yes I agree about the commercials. Very heart wrenching. "I'm know I'm a good dog..."

I say Day Two. One thing that bothered me about the show was the dog announcer in general. He stumbled, bumbled and just didn't seem to say anything with feeling. He ain't no Roger Karas.


I was so in awe of all the dogs, I really didn't notice whether one had an advantage over another. I just thought I wanted one of ALL of them!

 

[Laurelin]

The announcers were very off on both nights. We've been discussing it on another forum. They had dog genders wrong, dog names wrong, dog breeds wrong, etc. They also said that briards ears are natural and then had to correct themselves to say they were cropped.

 

[ToscasMom]

Yes I remember the Briard blunder. Frankly I found the voices of everybody involved kind of annoying and I got a sense there wasn't the kind of knowledge there that there used to be. But hey, what do I know.

 

[casablanca1]

"What sort of dogs do you have yourself?"

A shelter mutt, who got much hugging every time that damned Pedigree commercial aired.

Another thing - I didn't notice that the announcers were goofy, but I did think it was sweet when the one guy confessed to a bias for the OES, since he'd had to put his to sleep recently.

 

[otch1]

Hi Casablanca... My daughter called me during show and asked if we could go to the shelter in am, "just to look". That is some intense marketing by Pedigree. The whippet "Vivi", you never know. Saw something next day about a dog being brought into Washington shelter, scanned and owner contacted. Owner said dog had been missing for 2 years! One can only hope! And have to disagree about short verses coated breeds placing, dark verses light coated dogs placing, at Westminster. On average, look at the last 5 years group winners and BIS dogs and you'll find that's not the case. It really depends on the breed. Keeping my fingers crossed about Vivi though.

 

[tempura tantrum]

Breed origins are just breeder fantasy land. None of the breeds is 'ancient' and no AKC breed is particularly linked to its practical ancestors.

I don't know if you're just referring to herding breeds, but there are actually quite a few ancient breeds that are accepted by the AKC. Ibizan and Pharoah hounds look nearly the same now as they did in ancient Egypt (just a look at the artwork will tell you that). And as far as Shibas go...there's evidence of their existence from WAY back in Japan's Jomon period- and they do the same thing today that they did back then (hunt boar, bear, and small game), albeit to a lesser degree.

I agree with you that Westminster announcing "lays it on a little thick," but I honestly think that's just part of the game that everybody gets used to and has a little chuckle about. I mean, if you can't see something silly in black tie and tennis shoes in the first place...

It's part of the reason we all think the movie "Best in Show" is so darn funny. We all KNOW that Westminster is a bit ridiculous- but that's what makes it such a good time. A little overdone pageantry once a year is a nice change of pace.

LOL. I've also got to say that I got a real kick out of Mike LaFave saying "Poy Toodle," when Vikki was being judged. I seriously think I'm going to start calling them "Poy Toodles" from now on.

Is it just me or is it true that larger, shorter-coated and dark dogs have an advantage? I'm thinking there's an 'impressiveness' factor, that having a shorter, darker coat shows off conditioning and musculature more effectively. Just a casual impression I get from watching part of Westminster every year.

I don't necessarily think so. I can think of a LOT of really coaty Westminster BIS dogs off the top of my head. James isn't exactly moderate in coat, and neither was the Newf a couple of years back. Poodles have a fair number of wins and they're absolutely covered in hair. And then there's the sheer number of terriers that win- over half of Westminster BIS winners are terriers, and with few exceptions, most of them aren't that big, nor are they all that dark. The REAL advantage goes to dogs who are campaigned by big name handlers all over the country.

 

[showpug]

I just had to add that I think the dogs with more coat have the advantage over the shorter coated breeds. You can hide almost anything under all that fluff! With the short coated dogs, what you see is what you get for the most part! I would say that dogs with a lot of coat are usually the ones to win at Westminster and like shows...

 

[ACooper]

1) Pedigree's commercials..............Tore me up, (tears, sniffles......the works) especially the "I know how to sit, roll over......but I don't know how I got here, I just wanna go home

2) Don't really know about the whippet, it would be nice to think she was ok somewhere livin it up.

3) Vivi the whippet......if all the info was correct......one is awfully young to breed her.

4) Those solemn descriptions of the breeds'...............Don't really have an oppinion, like tosca, I was watching the dogs and not listening to the constant droning on..........

5) Is it just me or is it true that larger, shorter-coated and dark dogs have an advantage? ............I would think NO, the judges have had years of experience in dogs, they are down there putting their hands on them, and see them close up. I think a good dog is a good dog and the judge can tell.

 

[ToscasMom]

Specific: To Collie people: I thought the merle rough collie was really ratty looking compared to others I have seen.

 

[casablanca1]

I don't know if you're just referring to herding breeds, but there are actually quite a few ancient breeds that are accepted by the AKC. Ibizan and Pharoah hounds look nearly the same now as they did in ancient Egypt (just a look at the artwork will tell you that). And as far as Shibas go...there's evidence of their existence from WAY back in Japan's Jomon period- and they do the same thing today that they did back then (hunt boar, bear, and small game), albeit to a lesser degree.

I don't know about Shibas, but I was under the impression that most of the breeds (the sighthounds, the mastiffs, etc.) which resemble ancient dogs depicted on pyramids, etc., are modern re-creations, and that the Ibizan, at least, has been specifically targeted as a modern creation by the people working on the dog genome (fascinating project, btw) Considering how violent and tumultuous human history has been, it's hard to believe that any breed could have survived intact since antiquity.

 

[DanL]

Regarding the whippet and breeding at a year, she was probably deemed a champion at 6 months. Everyone knows that is good enough to breed early and often. Who needs to let a dog develop and grow so you can get a full picture of health and temperament when you have a ribbon?

 

[otch1]

Hi there... I'll re-check this but I believe there was a mistake. This Whippet did not have a litter at 12 months. And no she could not have been finished/a champion at 6 months. That is when an AKC pup starts their show career Dan. From what I've heard this girl came from a very reputable breeder, with lovely dogs and they really are heartbroken.

 

[otch1]

Not sure why it was thought Vivi had a litter/was bred at a year of age, maybe a mistake made on announcers part at Westmister show? While I missed that, I wanted to confirm, Vivi was a 3 yr old Whippet at the time of her disappearance approx. 1 year ago. She is now approx. 4 yrs of age. She's been bred only once. Had 2 pups. Her puppy, shown on the program Tuesday night is approx. 1 yr. old. That means Vivi was bred at approx. 2 1/2 yrs of age and her pups were very young when she disappeared. Bo Bengston, Vivis' breeder and Jil Walton, her owner are well respected in the breed from what I understand and she was a valued pet, not just an outstanding show dog. Just wanted to clear up some misinformation.

 

[Laurelin]

Thanks for that Otch, that sounded off to me.

And yes, the EARLIEST you can begin to show a dog is at 6 months, but many people wait longer than that and prefer to champ dogs as adults.

 

[tempura tantrum]

Regarding the whippet and breeding at a year, she was probably deemed a champion at 6 months. Everyone knows that is good enough to breed early and often. Who needs to let a dog develop and grow so you can get a full picture of health and temperament when you have a ribbon?

Having a championship at 6 months of age would be impossible- puppies are only allowed to BEGIN competing at that age. I suppose you could enter 3 shows in one day, in which there just happened to be 5 point majors at each, and then each judge happened to like your puppy better than all the dogs entered in the open class. But then you'd have to hope that none of the ring times coincided, and you'd need a Lear jet (or a magic carpet) to get to shows far enough apart that entries would be big enough to give you 5 point majors. Soo... it would truly be difficult! *Probably* impossible...

And thanks to everyone who cleared up the information about Vivi- her breeders are well-respected in the Whippet community, and indeed the show community as a whole. She wasn't bred too young. And they are STILL looking for her a year later. It seems pretty weak IMHO to take a tragedy as an opportunity to bash people who are clearly absolutely devestated about what happened. Especially when the information could've been easily verified and obtained.

 

[otch1]

3- 5 point majors in one weekend of showing, I'd be happy to keep my puppys feet on the ground during a judges exam at this point!! (and I agree Tempura, Dan needs a spanking!) Lol Have a good day everyone.

 

[DanL]

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[casablanca1]

"It seems pretty weak IMHO to take a tragedy as an opportunity to bash people who are clearly absolutely devestated about what happened. Especially when the information could've been easily verified and obtained."

There was no bashing; I asked a question and Dan vented a little. Nobody bashed the owner or breeder.