well bred vs. not so much. how it affects physical appearance
- Thread starter Fran101
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Poorly bred Dalmatians are usually WAY oversized as in the females being as large or typically larger than a well bred male. Ivan is about 50 pounds and I've seen byb female dals that out weigh Ivan by sometimes as much as 15 to 20 pounds. And they tend to be way taller also. The other thing that changes is the spotting, they tend to go to extremes with spotting either not enough or too many with tiny tiny spotting almost ticking.
Like Toller said, Dobermans are *very* obvious - it doesn't help that they have short coats either - there's nothing to hide the obvious earmarks of bad breeding.
It's also sad to say that there are a lot of Dobermans, even in the show world, that I would classify in the BYB status - they aren't anywhere close to the standard. Or dogs that are so overdone they look ginormous - this is a medium sized breed.
I think Dobermans are easier to get wrong than right. JMHO, of course.
I think Dachshunds are also a breed that you can tell very easily what is BYB and what is bred to the standard.
It's also sad to say that there are a lot of Dobermans, even in the show world, that I would classify in the BYB status - they aren't anywhere close to the standard. Or dogs that are so overdone they look ginormous - this is a medium sized breed.
I think Dobermans are easier to get wrong than right. JMHO, of course.
I think Dachshunds are also a breed that you can tell very easily what is BYB and what is bred to the standard.
I think the worst and most noticable is any brachycephalic breed bred with an under/overbite.
We had a very sick boxer puppy come in to the clinic today. Very poorly bred, the underbite was so horrible. I've seen ugly pugs, bulldogs, american bulldogs and others with terrible mouths. Poor things.
Another thing that bothers me is when people breed merle to merle coats with no regard for the possibility of deafness.
We had a very sick boxer puppy come in to the clinic today. Very poorly bred, the underbite was so horrible. I've seen ugly pugs, bulldogs, american bulldogs and others with terrible mouths. Poor things.
Another thing that bothers me is when people breed merle to merle coats with no regard for the possibility of deafness.
Well, better a good, if un-rottie, temperament than a nasty one, I guess, and she was definitely a pet. My sister did say Mattie planted herself in front of her when a strange man approached them in their apartment parking lot. Didn't growl or anything, just stared at him. He only wanted directions but I guess there was something about him that made Mattie respond...
To me, poorly bred Shelties look weedy. Their coats aren't luxuriant and tend to be too soft. They just don't look right. That said, the tendency now to breed for heavier bone in show dogs just isn't all that attractive to me. Shelties should be balanced and medium dogs, not bruisers. (I'm not a breeder, and I don't show in conformation, so I'm probably wrong about some of this.) The biggest difference, IMO, is in temperament. Shelties are supposed to be reserved, not throw themselves at strangers, radiating "I love you! I love you!" They ought be active and athletic, not hyperactive. They aren't goldens. They aren't JRT's.
My dog when I was a child was a byb scottie named Bouncing Bess. I loved her very much. When I went to college and got married we rescued a beautifully bred Scottie we named Ahoj. I took Ahoj home when I went on vacation, and when you stood the two of them next to each other you would have never guessed they were the same breed.
Bessie was leggier, lighter boned, had a much softer coat, a slightly rounded skull, and semi prick ears. Ahoj was heavy boned, had a brindle wire haired coat, and a squatre skull. Totally different effect and expression. I have some pics of their meeting, but no scanner or any other way to post.
Bessie was leggier, lighter boned, had a much softer coat, a slightly rounded skull, and semi prick ears. Ahoj was heavy boned, had a brindle wire haired coat, and a squatre skull. Totally different effect and expression. I have some pics of their meeting, but no scanner or any other way to post.
With Boxers the first thing I think of is size and their head. People think they are supposed to be massive dogs, when I see male boxers that are 80+ pounds, I think that is a BIG boxer. People think Juno is too small for a boxer... she's somewhere between 45-50 pounds. They don't understand, first of all she's still a pup and has some more growing and filling out to do... but even if this were her size full grown, she's not small. She's on the smallER side for a female, but still a fine size for a boxer. They aren't supposed to be, like, rottweiler sized.
I also see a lot of boxers with loooong muzzles, they don't even look purebred. And really bad underbites. My brother's boxer has a horrible underbite, it really ruins the look of her face.
I also see a lot of boxers with loooong muzzles, they don't even look purebred. And really bad underbites. My brother's boxer has a horrible underbite, it really ruins the look of her face.
I don't classify it as "poor temperament". To me a poor temperament is an unstable temperament. Those examples would be "out of standard", but not poor. A rottie with a poor temperament might be a dog with the high defense drives, combined with something like shyness and fear aggression.
A lot of the "poorly bred" dogs in this thread are just out of standard. I've definitely seen out of standard german shepherds who had better structure than the ones in the show ring. Depending on who you talk to they are poorly bred. Some will say they are well bred.
Anyway, you can combine two of the most kick butt dogs in a breed, research their lines and health test up the wazoo and still get an out of standard puppy in the litter. That doesn't make the puppy any less well bred than its siblings. It's just out of standard, and it happens.
A lot of the "poorly bred" dogs in this thread are just out of standard. I've definitely seen out of standard german shepherds who had better structure than the ones in the show ring. Depending on who you talk to they are poorly bred. Some will say they are well bred.
Anyway, you can combine two of the most kick butt dogs in a breed, research their lines and health test up the wazoo and still get an out of standard puppy in the litter. That doesn't make the puppy any less well bred than its siblings. It's just out of standard, and it happens.
in a lot of breeds the "well bred" ones ARE the poorly bred ones. look at GSDs w/the hyena backs on the "well bred" ones and the level backs on the bybs. boxers are another one regardless of size they shouldn't look like giant pugs but most of the "well bred" ones i've seen look like tall skinny pugs. if you saw a show champ from the 30s, most people would think they were pitX because of the longer jaw, wider chest & smaller size.
Its not uncommon for good breeders to produce litters of entirely pet quality animals, although that is never what they hope for. Just because mom is show-quality and dad is show-quality that doesn't mean that all the right genes will match up to produce show-quality offspring. For breeders that don't do a lot of inbreeding, a show-quality baby can be a rarity. I breed a minority cat breed. Most of the top-show cats in my breed are very inbred. I worked very hard for seven years before I was able to produce at least one or two show-quality kittens in every litter.
If you are inbreeding you need to be testing for health, too. Inbreeding locks in the good stuff, but it also brings out all the bad recessive stuff. Most breeders don't inbreed until they've been at it long enough to know most of the "what ifs" in their pedigrees. Its something no newbie should be attempting unless they have a very trustworthy mentor.
forgot this earlier
the Rottie was originally a butcher's dog (litteral translation of metzgerhund) and as such it caught cattle like the british bulldog. the "aloof w/ strangers' thing was developed later by those who chose to make guard dogs of them. so congenial isn't necessarily incorrect temperament for the breed only for the portion used as guards. even w/ modern working ABs & bandogs many breeders prefer a moderately social dog to the "aloof" one.
the Rottie was originally a butcher's dog (litteral translation of metzgerhund) and as such it caught cattle like the british bulldog. the "aloof w/ strangers' thing was developed later by those who chose to make guard dogs of them. so congenial isn't necessarily incorrect temperament for the breed only for the portion used as guards. even w/ modern working ABs & bandogs many breeders prefer a moderately social dog to the "aloof" one.