Was I wrong?

Pops2

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#1
So in a discussion (about rights and liberties and unnecessary laws) elsewhere, a lady tells me that:
She had her dog LEGALLY off leash at a public park, when she met a lady with a SERVAL ON LEASH. The serval lady asked her to please pick up her dog because the 20-40# cat could kill it. Now doggy lady thought serval lady was irresponsible for having a "dangerous uncontrolled animal in a public" place where it could "attack a dog or a child." I told doggy lady that serval lady did in point of fact have her animal under control. I also told her that it was she who did NOT have control over her dog and that serval lady was only pointing out the potential consequences of doggy lady's choices (regardless of the actual law). What i did not point out is that doggy lady's dog was apparently approaching said serval or serval lady wouldn't have had to make her aware of the risk.
Doggy lady thinks I'm insane for calling her the asshole (not literally) and believing serval lady has every right to own said animal and walk it in a public place.
 

Glacier

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#2
When one has their animal off leash I would assume they have verbal control over their animal. Cat-lady warned her of the possible consequences. She had her cat leashed and under control. Common sense would make me call my little dog away and possibly re-leash it until either I or cat-lady leaves the area.
 
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#3
Why would you take a Serval to an off leash area? Just like a dog that would be a threat to an off leash small dog, I'd really rather you didn't walk through there. I guess it depends on the actual park set up in question.

Anyway, how closely was this dog approaching? There are plenty of people who have on leash dogs that are not controlled. I've been charged by a dog that knocked its owner over.
 

Fran101

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#4
I think Serval lady is the problem,but that's just me.

If it's an off leash park, animals are going to be off leash and going to be walked up to....if your animal, regardless of kind, cannot handle that, you need to go to an ON LEASH park.

We have this problem with dogs who are on-leash reactive or DA walking through the off leash section of the park. IT'S AN OFF LEASH AREA, DOGS ARE ALLOWED TO BE RUNNING AROUND, if you wanted a personal space bubble for your pet you'd go to an on leash area.

All these dogs are running around, and YOUR SINGULAR ANIMAL is the problem/potential problem, so YOU need to deal with it instead of making everyone else.

It's a huge risk for serval owner to take with OTHER ANIMALS LIVES. It's an off leash area, what if she DID NOT get the chance to warn the owner in time, what if she turns a corner and there are more dogs playing? smaller even? who would be to blame...certainly not the dog owners.

I think it's wildly irresponsible to knowingly take the risk of your animal harming another in a situation where those animals are legally off leash and running around.

It's OUR JOB as owner to make sure our animals don't cause harm to other animals/humans.
Not everyone else's jobs to tiptoe around us, especially in legally off-leash areas which are MEANT for dogs to have freedom to run around.
 
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#6
I think it all depends on if this was an 'Off leash dog park' or a people park where under voice control dogs are allowed off leash.
 

Pops2

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#7
the understanding i had was that it wasn't a dog park, just a public park in an area without a specific leash law. the particulars aren't clear because it is second hand information from a participant who may not be impartial in her relation of the details. in my mind she has as much right as anyone else as long as she has control over her animal. would your opinion be different if it was a DR dog on leash rather than an exotic cat?
 
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#8
Yeah, if that's the type of park it is then the women with the dog off leash needs to be in control of her dog. But, the serval lady also should make an effort to not go up by a dog off leash if she knows her cat could pose a risk to the dog.

Basically, everyone needs to have some common courtesy.
 

Pops2

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#9
Yeah, if that's the type of park it is then the women with the dog off leash needs to be in control of her dog. But, the serval lady also should make an effort to not go up by a dog off leash if she knows her cat could pose a risk to the dog.

Basically, everyone needs to have some common courtesy.
again hard to be clear because of the source, but the inference i got from doggy lady was that serval lady was sitting there minding her own business when doggy lady walked up to her.
 

Oko

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#10
I wouldn't bring my serval (???) to a park where dogs are running around offleash, in my opinion that's just asking for trouble.
 

Fran101

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#11
I think the responsibility (in an off leash area) lies with the person whose animal is the one likely to cause harm to another.
While animals should of course be under some control, even off leash, if that animal can and would harm that dog just for walking up or doing what dogs do, that animal shouldn't be there.

Serval or dog or whatever, it shouldn't be in an area where animals are allowed to be off leash if it cannot be approached without causing harm to that animal.

Off leash areas are places where dogs are allowed to run free. That means owning the responsibility of loose dogs, other animals, dogs walking up to new animals etc...

Yes, she gave a warning. But what if she turns a corner and runs into dogs playing whose owners are too far to hear the warning, or owners who don't speak english, or dogs who are UNDERSTANDABLY curious about a GIANT CAT walking around.

IMO it's irresponsible.
Walk the cat on a muzzle, have a backup plan, find an an leash park... I dunno.

But if my dog was aggressive and could KILL a small dog, you wouldn't see me at any off leash location and expect other people to pick up their dogs/respect my dogs space.
 

Fran101

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#12
Oh and did I mention it's a GIANT CAT.

Why doesn't she just walk her pet squirrel around the park and expect dogs not to bother it?
 
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#13
But Fran, I don't think this is an off leash park. I just think it's a public people park without stringent leash laws (Like the ones you hear about that allow off leash dogs as long as they are under voice control because it's assumed that is the leash. But they aren't dog parks or anything of the sort which is why the under voice control is the key).

If it was a dog park I would totally agree with you. But in public, people parks I think the responsibility lies with the people who choose to let their dog off leash knowing they need to be 100% in control of the dog.

Like, if someone brought a Serval to my dog park I would pretty much have a fit. But if I was at a public park with my dog off leash (assuming it wasn't illegal) and someone brought a Serval I better be able to keep my dog under control and away from them the same way I would have to do if the dog was on a leash.

But, it's hard to tell not knowing what the park is like.
 

Saeleofu

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#14
This is just so full of "it depends."

Is a serval legal in the area?
If legal, is it legal to have it in public? (Around here any large exotics are required to be contained in very specific enclosures at all times, not leashed in public).
Was it specifically an off-leash area, or was there just no leash law? (one of the cities I'd like to move to allows ALL dogs to be off-leash anywhere in the city as long as they're in a heel.)
Was the dog under control and at its owner's side, or was it advancing on the cat?
Was the serval under control, or was it on a flexi/otherwise out of control?
Was the cat ACTUALLY getting ready to kill something, or was it just a warning to get the dog under control?

If either person was breaking the law, they're automatically wrong in my book.

If all parties were acting legally, then it depends on how each animal was handled. If the dog is advancing on/harassing the cat, then I'm on the side of the serval lady. If the dog was under control and the cat was acting up, then I'm on the side of the dog lady. If both animals were calm, under control, and next to their owners, then whoever started it is an asshole. If neither was under control, then they're both assholes.
 

Pops2

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#15
I think the responsibility (in an off leash area) lies with the person whose animal is the one likely to cause harm to another.
While animals should of course be under some control, even off leash, if that animal can and would harm that dog just for walking up or doing what dogs do, that animal shouldn't be there.

Serval or dog or whatever, it shouldn't be in an area where animals are allowed to be off leash if it cannot be approached without causing harm to that animal.

Off leash areas are places where dogs are allowed to run free. That means owning the responsibility of loose dogs, other animals, dogs walking up to new animals etc...

Yes, she gave a warning. But what if she turns a corner and runs into dogs playing whose owners are too far to hear the warning, or owners who don't speak english, or dogs who are UNDERSTANDABLY curious about a GIANT CAT walking around.

IMO it's irresponsible.
Walk the cat on a muzzle, have a backup plan, find an an leash park... I dunno.

But if my dog was aggressive and could KILL a small dog, you wouldn't see me at any off leash location and expect other people to pick up their dogs/respect my dogs space.
but see that's just it, nothing doggy lady said indicated that the cat was aggressive
as for the muzzle that is just a bad idea to me for any animal smaller than a lion, because there will always be the irresponsible idiots even in a leash law area that will let animals run loose and a muzzled animal is incapable of defending themselves. now granted if a dog did jump my leashed and muzzled dog, there is a really good chance i would kill that dog with my bare hands before the owner could intervene. BUT i am far more capable than the average person (even big old MMA guys), just because of my life experiences.
 

Fran101

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#16
But Fran, I don't think this is an off leash park. I just think it's a public people park without stringent leash laws (Like the ones you hear about that allow off leash dogs as long as they are under voice control because it's assumed that is the leash. But they aren't dog parks or anything of the sort which is why the under voice control is the key).

If it was a dog park I would totally agree with you. But in public, people parks I think the responsibility lies with the people who choose to let their dog off leash knowing they need to be 100% in control of the dog.

Like, if someone brought a Serval to my dog park I would pretty much have a fit. But if I was at a public park with my dog off leash (assuming it wasn't illegal) and someone brought a Serval I better be able to keep my dog under control and away from them the same way I would have to do if the dog was on a leash.

But, it's hard to tell not knowing what the park is like.
That's true.
We don't have an off-leash but not dog parks around here which makes it hard to visualize...

In people parks, your dog should be under voice control 100% anyway in case there was a picnic with food or kids running around or whatever.

So I suppose, depending on the type of park...if it's a people park with just off-leash grey areas I'd say it was up to the owner to have their dog completely under control and leaving other people/animals alone regardless of giant cat.
 

Pops2

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#17
This is just so full of "it depends."

Is a serval legal in the area?
If legal, is it legal to have it in public? (Around here any large exotics are required to be contained in very specific enclosures at all times, not leashed in public).
Was it specifically an off-leash area, or was there just no leash law? (one of the cities I'd like to move to allows ALL dogs to be off-leash anywhere in the city as long as they're in a heel.)
Was the dog under control and at its owner's side, or was it advancing on the cat?
Was the serval under control, or was it on a flexi/otherwise out of control?
Was the cat ACTUALLY getting ready to kill something, or was it just a warning to get the dog under control?

If either person was breaking the law, they're automatically wrong in my book.

If all parties were acting legally, then it depends on how each animal was handled. If the dog is advancing on/harassing the cat, then I'm on the side of the serval lady. If the dog was under control and the cat was acting up, then I'm on the side of the dog lady. If both animals were calm, under control, and next to their owners, then whoever started it is an asshole. If neither was under control, then they're both assholes.
see and that is just it, all i had to go off of was what doggy lady said and very obviously didn't say.
 

Shai

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#18
So Linds already posted everything I would have said in the order I would have said it so... ditto Linds :p
 

Oko

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#19
Okay, the problem I have with this is when I let my dog off leash in not really nay or yay leash areas, I would not expect to run into someone walking a serval, nor is that normal enough that I feel I should have to expect a wild cat in an area where dogs do go off leash? That would make Feist's eyes pop out of her head. It just seems ridiculous to take your serval to a park where dogs are offleash and expect it to go over well? WAY too much risk to dogs, me, and the cat. It would be lovely if everyone was a responsible owner who only let their dog offleash if they had excellent control over them, but that's not the way things work.
 

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