Video of animals being euthed at shelter-Warning. Heartbreaking. We are Monsters

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#41
I have the products of two different 'no kill' shelters. Argon, who came from the one I worked at, went 1 year without a home, from puppyhood to 1 year. Then there was a failed placement for four years (living on a chain, he fell through the cracks), and back to the shelter for 2 months before I took him. When Argon was a baby, in the shelter the first time, he went on walks in the community, went to off site adoptions, had time to play outside and hung out frequently with the voluneteers and staff making their rounds. He played with toys. Was it perfect? No. But, given what they had to work with, I think they did a pretty good job with him. He's a little on the shy side, but a pretty well rounded dog.

Gambit, on the other hand was pretty much brought in as a puppy, dumped in a 10x10, and left to rot with his brothers. He spent 5 months in a bare kennel, fed and cleaned, but never loved. He never went off site, never walked on a leash or even wore a collar, was never handled, and believe me it shows. He's a neurotic mess, and I'm having serious doubts about my ability to fix, or even mediate, a lot of his issues. It's heartbreaking to look at a physically healthy dog, and know that his brain is damaged, if not destroyed from lack of early stimulation.

So, I can see both sides. Would it have been better for Argon to be PTS after a month, or six months or a year? No. He was happy and loving life both in his kennel and out of it.

Would it have been better for Gambit to be PTS earlier to spare him suffering now. I don't know.

I don't know how Gambit's original shelter decided when a dog should be PTS, if at all. I know Argon was evaluated regularly.
 
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#42
I guess thats what I dont get....if the shelters are doing all the advocacy, being open to rescues, advertising, etc....and yet are still full what is the solution? How do they not put adoptable animals down?
 

Brattina88

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#43
I guess thats what I dont get....if the shelters are doing all the advocacy, being open to rescues, advertising, etc....and yet are still full what is the solution? How do they not put adoptable animals down?
They stop taking animals in
 

Sweet72947

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#44
Sweet, that may be some kill shelters, but I can tell you that, at the kill shelter I volunteer at, we try our hardest to get these animals adopted. The manager is amazing and loves animals. Sometimes, it IS the public that is to be blamed. We hold adoption events every single week, we have a low cost spay neuter clinic, we have networking and do transports every month, we have a segment on the noon show, we foster, and we're STILL killing tons of EXTREMELY adoptable animals every month, including and especially litters upon litters of 8-week-old puppies because people refuse to get their dogs fixed around here!

What do all the "anyone can be a no kill shelter" people propose we do? And yes, we do take black puppies straight to the euthanasia room during the summer without putting them on the adoption floor first, because there are absolutely NO cages open, and we're not about to kill a couple colorful puppies that kind of have a chance of getting adopted, to make room for black puppies that have NO chance of getting adopted.
Those are good questions Picklepaige, maybe if you go here: nokillequation You can see if your shelter is doing everything, maybe there's something that was missed. You could probably even contact Nathan Winograd himself and ask. He posts sometimes on YesBiscuit!

ETA: How far do your transports go? Puppies of every color get adopted easily here! Send them our way!
 

Pops2

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#45
didn't read the thread or watch the video. just want to let you (generic you) know you automatically put me off of any interest in listening to, supporting or helping you when you use words like murder to describe PTS.
 

Aleron

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#47
A lot of shelters seem like they CHOOSE to kill. I mean, check out YesBiscuit! once in a while. She's following a kill-shelter right now that kills most of the cats and dogs without even putting them on the adoption floor, without reaching out to rescue, without giving owners a time to claim lost pets. They DON'T CARE.
ITA with this. Our county pound used to turn all-breed rescue groups away from taking dogs who were going to be killed the next morning, before they opened. They wouldn't willing work with any breed rescue. Pit bulls had no chance at all. Owner turn ins sometimes were never offered for adoption. The pound also was open only 9am-4pm Monday through Friday. Dogs were given three days to find a home. Things have improved a great deal at this pound with a change of leadership. Still not perfect but they have extended hours one night a week, volunteers, dogs on Petfinder, are willing to work with local and out of state rescues and will hold nice dogs well beyond the required time frame. However, I hear there is going to be a new person in charge soon and worry about the new person's interest in promoting adoption :(

When I was in high school, one of my friends was volunteering at a private shelter (which happens to be were our county's "humane agents" work) and walked in on young kittens being killed via heartstick, in one of the main cat rooms. That same shelter's humane agents in recent times raided a local no-kill cat shelter claiming they were "hoarding" and the cats were being neglected. People questioned it because the cats appeared healthy. It was then said that some of the cats had respiratory infections and wounds. Ummm...yeah they're stray cats. The following week nearly all of the 80+ cats were killed at the "humane agent's" shelter and no one knows what became of the remaining few. No charges were ever pressed against the cat shelter. The "humane agents" didn't kill those cats because of "overpopulation" or because they wouldn't ever find homes. They killed them to make a point and because they could.

It seems to me that many shelter workers and directors develop an "us against them" attitude towards the public. They complain that not enough people adopt their dogs but then when people come in, they are treated rudely, turned away for trivial reasons and all but accused of being future animal abusers. That was certainly the case of the shelter we got Ziggy from. If you want people to adopt from you, treat them like you would customers in a place of business. Forget the policies of "we don't adopt out to people with kids/cats/X number of pets/intact animals/who have bred a litter/people who don't have a fence/people who have a dog door/people who don't have a dog door/people with fences under X height/etc/etc/etc". What's even worse though, is that the power that goes with deciding which animals live or die and which people get the animal they want seems to greatly corrupt some people.

The original purpose of pounds was to dispose of unwanted animals, so they didn't become a nuisance. Many seem to still operate in this fashion. It doesn't help that the shelter community seems to follow HSUS, who is against no-kill and quite supportive of even very high kill shelters (after all high kill shelters do make for good fundraisers for them). It's all very sad but I believe change is possible, if shelter workers want it.
 

Aleron

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#48
so, what, leave them on the streets? Shelters that I know of will wake up to dogs tied to their fence, or left in their parking lot, etc.....

That is exactly my point...if one stops taking them in, someone else has to
This has been posted a few times in this thread but it is the model for successful no-kill:
nokillequation

This is a good article too, addressing the issue that you have brought up:
: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/pdf/Open%20Door%20Myth.pdf

And this too:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/pdf/Reforming%20Animal%20Control.pdf
 
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#49
Yeah, those still didnt really address it. They said a couple models they had it worked with open door policy and that is awesome. I know of other places where the people tried their darndest to implement it and it did not work. The followed all the information, did all the things suggested, and still had way more coming in then they could handle.
 

stardogs

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#50
I looked at the nokillequation site - the shelter in SC that I worked with had all of the programming in the list, except for an official TNR program and "proactive redemptions", though I believe they are working toward both. They still have to euthanize plenty of adoptable animals, and THAT is why I am skeptical.
 
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#52
I have no issues with shelters implementing the ideas...I do have issues with people assuming they dont care or are murderers if it doesnt work as expected.

As long as dogs are not living their lives in pens, are able to live in homes with families, etc thats great.
 

Sweet72947

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#53
I don't think anyone is saying that ALL shelters don't care, clearly there are some out there that do and are trying very hard to save the animals they can, but there are a lot of shelters out there that don't care.

I know that people in shelters at the front desk aren't allowed to tell people the chances of finding their surrendered pet a home (at least we aren't in VA), but maybe we should. Maybe the next time somebody does want to drop off a black dog or a litter of black pups, or a pit bull, that we should honestly say "no, your pet(s) does not have a good chance of being adopted. In fact, since the dog is black, and we don't have much room, we are just going to kill it tonight." It is the truth, right? So maybe if we tell them, they might think twice.

(And please, allow your staff to tell people about the dogs. Adopters already sign a form saying the shelter is not liable for whatever bad behaviors the dog may show when they adopt, so what's it matter? That collie mix at the shelter I worked for could've been adopted if I were allowed to tell that nice couple about him instead of, I dunno, DEAD).

ETA: Btw, I would like to bring an interesting piece of legislation to the attention of all shelter workers. http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/pdf/CAPA.pdf


It mandates that a shelter must notify rescue groups and other resources before killing any healthy treatable pet at least two days in advance of killing it.
Delaware has this law on the books already. What will you do if it comes to your state?
 
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Picklepaige

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#54
But that's the thing...we do tell people that, for black puppies, they are going straight to "E." What do we get? A shrug, a "that's life," and a new litter of puppies from the same mom in a couple of months.

It's sickening. I've had little kids tell me their dog is "gonna have to die" because it licks them. That's the kind of world we have here in Mississippi. Dogs and cats aren't worth anything. We JUST NOW made it to where animal cruelty is a felony, and people are GOING INSANE about that around here, saying how animals aren't worth jail time over.
 

Lolas Dad

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That's the kind of world we have here in Mississippi. Dogs and cats aren't worth anything. We JUST NOW made it to where animal cruelty is a felony, and people are GOING INSANE about that around here, saying how animals aren't worth jail time over.
Hopefully in some time they will change their attitudes about animals not being worth jail time over. Maybe people will also get the message of spaying and neutering their pets and not being irresponsible breeders.

Their are quite a few people whose dogs have had oops litters and placed them on CL. To me their is no such thing as an oops litter. Their are also a lot of people putting right in their ads "She is not spayed" or "He is not neutered" . Why don't these people have their pet spayed or neutered before adopting them out. Some even complain their ad is getting flagged but can't figure out why.

To make matters worse their are rescue groups pulling puppies from the south that are in shelters so adult dogs stand less of a chance. Instead of teaching these pet owners about being responsible they are just helping them be irresponsible. They should be teaching them about the benefits of spaying and neutering and if they are going to breed they should ve taching them about being a responsible breeder.

Educating people all over where puppies come from that are sold in puppy stores would also be a step in the right direction. Stopping so called rescue groups from adopting puppies out that are not really rescue groups but working in conjunction with a puppy store selling their older puppies to make room for the new ones that come in and the rescue group passing them off as rescue puppies when they actually are not. I know of one group that is doing just that. I've done a little investigating and the person that runs this so called rescue has had financial backing from the puppy store and also gets the puppies from them.
 

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