Tuck sit HELP

Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#1
Louis believes he's physically incapable of doing a tuck sit. I am starting to believe him :/

This is a problem, because we are hoping to do rally-O, and every sit results in him about 2-3 feet behind me. He's a big guy!

I've tried a few things, and nothing has produced a tuck sit. We've been doing some perch work for a nice "get in", and it's coming along. I tried a lower perch and aiming for a sit with front feet remaining on the perch, but that was a dismal failure. I could not figure out how to communicate what I wanted.

Tried sitting near a wall. Clearly I don't know how to go about this, because it did not result in a tuck sit.

Anyone willing to attempt to help me?
 

Southpaw

orange iguanas.
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
7,788
Likes
1
Points
38
Age
29
Location
Minnesota
#2
I lure up and toward me diagonally which usually gets them to tuck in, vs traditionally people lure up and behind the dogs head. I also toss the reward out in front of them so that they move forward to get it, which in time hopefully that anticipation stops them from wanting to rock back.

I'm not versed in breaking the habit of rocking back, as none of mine do it, but hopefully that's of some help to you?
 

amberdyan

Active Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,323
Likes
6
Points
38
Age
30
Location
Lawrence, KS
#3
I helped a friend teach her dog a tuck sit using front paw targeting when she swore it wouldn't work (Hugo just does it. Lucky me.) Her attempt at doing it was just having him target something and ask for a sit. She was going WAY too fast. I don't know how you've gone about trying, but I'll break down what we did in case you hadn't tried it this way.

Started on just paw targeting. We probably spent 5 sessions working JUST on having him understand that when the target was there, he did not get the treat if his feet moved off the target.
- We started by shaping: go near the target= treat. Step on the target= treat parade into your mouth. Step off target= treats stop. Eventually, being on that target seemed AWESOME and he didn't want to leave.

- Here is where she made her mistake. She knew he was good with the target, so she asked for a sit. He promptly rocked back because that's what he was used to. She had to re-teach a sit. This could totally be shaped but she wanted to move faster and we ended up luring. Held the treat out in front of him and slightly up. Marked for any hind leg movement. Then marked for hind legs moving forward. Then he kind of squatted and got a treat parade. I think it was on the second sit session that we got him to fully tuck sit.

- If at any time during sit training he stepped off of the target, we just stopped and stood there. He would quickly jump back on because he knew that would get us started again.

- We also stopped asking for sits outside this training which was hard. I'm not sure if it sped up the process or not.

Ignore if you've tried all this and it wasn't helpful : p. I just had a lot of success with it and wanted to share!
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#4
Thanks. I will try breaking down the rewards while paw targeting. He's an ace at perch work, but so far this hasn't translated into a tuck sit, and he just rocks back each. and. every. time. Then we both get frustrated. LOL!

The other thing I've been thinking of is a raised platform ...... not sure what I could use though, as he's a big fella.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#6
He's 95 lbs, but rather short backed (excellent Bouvie conformation :)). I will attempt the laundry basket ... good idea!
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#8
And another small issue - I agree that not asking for a sit outside of this training will be important - trouble is that he's learned a "sit" as his method of saying please. Wants back inside? Sits. Wants to be fed? Sits. Wants a pet? Sit. Gah. He gets a LOT of practice each and every day rock-back-sitting. Eek.
 

amberdyan

Active Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,323
Likes
6
Points
38
Age
30
Location
Lawrence, KS
#9
I only have a minute but that video looked really good! It'll get smoother as you go for sure.

Also he's adorable and your living room is super cute....
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#10
Aw, thanks. I think he's pretty adorable too.

We have the coffee table and all furniture moved off the rug, because I had it cleaned yesterday. Thought I'd take advantage of the wide open space for training and recording.
 

FG167

Active Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
2,709
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Jefferson, GA
#11
And another small issue - I agree that not asking for a sit outside of this training will be important - trouble is that he's learned a "sit" as his method of saying please. Wants back inside? Sits. Wants to be fed? Sits. Wants a pet? Sit. Gah. He gets a LOT of practice each and every day rock-back-sitting. Eek.
I just want to say that my IPO competition dogs rock back sit when begging for something but tuck sit in comp/training.
 

Picklepaige

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
1,802
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Mississippi
#12
I just want to say that my IPO competition dogs rock back sit when begging for something but tuck sit in comp/training.
Finn isn't an IPO dog haha, but yeah, I have both a tuck sit and a "pet sit" trained on him. I know they seem similar to us, but to a dog they're pretty distinct behaviors, and you can teach them separately from each other! Just make sure you use a different cue for the tuck sit. I just use "sit" for a pet sit and "tuck" for a competition sit (queen of originality right here!.)

Does he know a nose touch? I had a really difficult time teaching Finn; I finally got it by having him sit then getting him to nose touch on my hand, which caused him to scoot forward. I put the cue to that scoot and faded the lure, and he picked up doing it from a stand really quickly.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#14
OMG. We are getting no where with this. Nose touch and a sit? Nuh uh. Just rocks back after the nose touch. Paw targeting and sit? Nope. Just rocks way back for the sit component. Soooooo frustrating for us both ........
 

Maxy24

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
8,070
Likes
2
Points
38
Age
28
Location
Massachusetts
#15
Are you actually asking him to sit when you are having him nose target/paw target? This may be confusing him because he thinks he knows how to sit and believes you are asking him to go ahead and do that.

I'd start from scratch and pretend he doesn't know how to sit, so don't say the word sit or use his sit hand signal if he has one. What I'd do it have him with ONLY his front feet on a perch. It should be a fairly small perch (maybe a book) so that only his front feet fit and when he brings his back feet in to sit they don't bump into it. His back feet will be remaining on the ground. So first you'll need to make sure he has a solid stand on perch and don't get off behavior. From there I would lure him into a sit. If when luring he steps back off the perch I'd break it down into smaller steps to help teach him it is important to stay on the perch while he's being lured. So he understands he can move as long as those front feet stay on. So start slowly luring and watch for him to start bringing his back feet forward/crouching and then reward that slight crouch. Obviously, if he steps off the perch pull back the treat and ask him to get back on the perch before starting again.
 
Last edited:

Maxy24

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
8,070
Likes
2
Points
38
Age
28
Location
Massachusetts
#16
Alternatively you could use a larger perch where he puts on all four feet, like what you were doing with your ottoman, but I'd use something lower to the ground so he can step off with his back feet. You'll want to make sure he puts his front feet on the perch first, then bring his back feet on to sit. Instead of having him remain with all four feet on the perch when he stands I'd want his back feet to come off when he stands and then come back on when he sits. Or I'd have him get off altogether between each sit. That way that instead of just raising and lowering his butt like he is with the ottoman, he actually practices collecting his back feet. That's really the movement he needs to practice, bringing those back feet forward each time he sits.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#17
Yes, that's exactly it, Erin. Thank you - I've been thinking I need a lower perch - something to move his feet back off in a stand, and onto for a sit. Here's the trouble I'm running into - he has no idea how to move his back feet AT ALL when doing a sit. He's a great big dude, who can withstand a whole lot of "pressure" physically - getting a smaller dog who is more sensitive to tuck sit is a little easier, as they are more likely to move their body based on my body position or what I'm doing. He's sort of oblivious, and just lumbers along doing whatever. He'll routinely sit his butt down ON something that's in his way instead of moving to avoid it, kwim?

I like the idea of pretending he doesn't have a sit at all, and seeing what I can do.

I cannot believe how challenging a SIT is becoming now that I want something precise. LOL!
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#18
And yes, I was asking him to sit after the paw and nose target, and yes, he was getting extremely frustrated with me because he was doing what he knows, and what I've always asked for, only suddenly it wasn't right and I couldn't communicate what would be right.
 

Maxy24

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
8,070
Likes
2
Points
38
Age
28
Location
Massachusetts
#19
Maybe just work on teaching him he can move those back feet for now. Pivoting with front feet on perch, teaching him to collect all 4 feet in a box, things like that. Or can he do all that already?
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
#20
I've actually been doing a ton of perch work - pivoting around, etc. He's got that, in that context. And it's resulted in quite a nice "get in". Now I just have to make the breakthrough that back feet have to move for a "sit" too.
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top