Toy Breeds?

milos_mommy

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#61
The chis I know are REALLY, REALLY smart. Except for toy poodles, probably the smartest toy breed I see. (I don't know any papillons though :p)
 

Laurelin

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#62
The chis I know are REALLY, REALLY smart. Except for toy poodles, probably the smartest toy breed I see. (I don't know any papillons though :p)
You need to meet some then! Mia blows every other dog I've ever had out of the water as far as brains go. Summer's not quite as gifted lol. Or maybe her smarts are just more traditional and not as evil.
 

Whisper

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#63
Lucy's very smart, though she uses her powers for evil like Mia does. :p
 

Laurelin

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#64
Poor Summer is very straightforward and kind of thick, lol. I love her, she's so sweet but she did not get much common sense. She's super easy to train though.

Yep, I'm bumping this back up. I like this thread. :D
 

~Tucker&Me~

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#65
Ok I have a question :D

One huge turn-off I read about paps (though I have heard it with other small breeds as well) is that they are incredibly difficult to housetrain. In fact I have even seen a few pap sites stating that it is not unusual for some to never become fully housetrained.

That is :yikes: to me and would be cause for me to never own one.

Is this baloney or does it have an ounce of truth?
 

PWCorgi

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#66
I bet someone else can give a better answer, but here is mine...

I heard the same thing about Italian Greyhounds, that ZOMG they could *not* be housebroken, ever. And a lot of them that I met were not housebroken. There was a breeder on another forum that I belonged to at the time and all of her dogs were housebroken.

She said that it can be harder, especially when they are puppies because they have such a small bladder that they have to be taken out even more than medium or large breed puppies, who already have to be taken out a ton. She also said that she thought a lot of people missed some of the messes when the puppies were small because the messes were so small, and then the puppies had a harder time learning because they were being unintentionally allowed to go in the house.

Laurelin will be able to answer more specifically to Papillons I'm sure, but that is what I know :p

ETA: She also said a lot of IG's just absolutely refused to go outside in the rain to go to the bathroom, but I've heard of quite a few dogs that are like that and still housebroken.
 

MandyPug

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#67
Pugs are said to be impossible to housetrain and many folks in the breed insist always having puppy pads around just in case...

Which is absolute crap IMO.

I think it's just lazyness in pug owners because when they pee it's not as huge of a mess as say a Great Dane.
 

Laurelin

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#68
You hear that about every toy breed... I don't think it's true at all. I will say Rose and Mia have been difficult to house train compared to most our dogs but the others are fine. Trey was also harder to house break so I don't think it's just a toy dog thing. Mia, I think it was because she was pee pad trained before coming here. I would seriously NOT recommend that. Mia would find a rug in the house and she really seemed like she couldn't tell why you can pee on a pad and it's okay but you can't pee on a rug. I ended up having to eventually pull up all the rugs and get new ones eventually. I still have to take her out very frequently. I click and cookie for a potty outside still and I make SURE Mia goes multiple times every time I take them out.

With Rose, she spent her first two years pretty much in a kennel. We got her and she had no potty training. She would sneak off and go in another room a lot. And it took a while to break her of that, but she's so much better now. I think for both Mia and Rose had been started off here, they'd have been fine.

The problems are they need to be taken out very frequently at first. Get them on a schedule too. The biggest issues are if you have a big house, they may see areas you don't go much as a potty. And also, you notice when a big dog has an accident. It's very easy to not notice a tiny pee spot though. So you just have to pay attention. And don't use potty pads. I think it just causes confusion about where is okay to go.

Beau and Nard potty trained easily. Summer came to me completely reliable.

Paps are more than smart enough to learn that they need to pee outside.
 

Laurelin

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#69
ETA: She also said a lot of IG's just absolutely refused to go outside in the rain to go to the bathroom, but I've heard of quite a few dogs that are like that and still housebroken.
Rose is like that lol. You have to pretty much force her to go outside in the rain or snow. She'll still go outside, she just will go on the sidewalk where she can minimize how wet she gets. ;)
 

PWCorgi

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#70
Rose is like that lol. You have to pretty much force her to go outside in the rain or snow. She'll still go outside, she just will go on the sidewalk where she can minimize how wet she gets. ;)
:lol-sign: Frodo is like that too. When it is really cold or downpouring and I try to get away with standing on the porch and getting him into the yard he will go on the porch if I let him. But if I actually take him for a walk he is more than happy to run around in the freezing cold or the pouring rain. Silly dog :rolleyes:
 
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#72
I'm a little late to the thread, but someone a few pages back said they would like some info on Toy Manchester Terriers, so here it goes!

My only experience with them is the 4 plus years I've had Zippy and he was 9 months old when I got him as a pet placement from his breeder who has many of the top show toy Manchesters in the country. He is my first small dog and not that I'm biased or anything:D but I couldn't love him more and think the breed is pretty cool, but definitely not for everyone.

Toy Manchesters in the showring are basically Manchesters that weigh no more than 12 lbs and have naturally erect ears. A standartd Manchester is a Manchester that weighs more than 12lbs but no more than 22lbs and can have naturally erect, cropped, or button ears --the two varieties can be interbred the supposedly the only distinction is the weight and toys can only have natural ears. Manchester fanciers however argue endlessly about differences between toys and standards.

Manchesters were bred from black and tan terrier stock and were known to be exceptional ratters. Many believe some whippet stock was mixed in to add speed and elegance.

Manchesters are very alert and very intelligent. Zippy is the most food motivated dog I've ever seen (and I had Labs as a kid LOL) and he is very trainable and has really good focus when food is involved. They make great "alert"/ watch dogs as they will bark to let you know if they think anything is wrong and are very in tune with their surroundings. The barkiness seems to vary some in the breed. Some can be very aloof or wary of strangers.

While Zippy might be a little standoffish to strangers, he is the most velcro snuggle dog in the world to me. I am escorted everywhere in the house LOL! He has a very short single coat that has very minimal shed, but in turn he can get cold and loves to be warm. If there are blankets, he must be under them, preferably while also laying on me.

There are several very successful agility toy manchesters. They are atheltic and have great speed and if you can get them to focus. Once they know their job they will be great at it. They are still terriers but from what I understand they tend to be more biddable than most --but they can still be very prey driven with that ratter background.

As far as health, since they are not a popular breed with huge numbers, from what I can see they seem to be very responsibly bred for the most part and have very few genetic health related issues. There is some Von Willenbrands in the breed but not much. As with many small dogs you need to be vigilant about the state of there teeth and they are known to have anesthesia sensitivity like some sight hound breeds.

Overall, I would say they have medium exercise requirements--they are up for walks and play whenever you want to go, but don't come unglued if they have a quiet indoor day. Grooming is very easy with such a short coat --one thing that none of the breed info sites seem to mention though is they have insanely thick black fast growing nails --definitely a common breed trait I have heard mentioned among other Manchester owners.

As far as possible down sides to the breed --I have heard of some with "sharp" temperaments (have heard this more with Standards then Toys) likewise some can be timid or nervous (Zippy is on the nervous side). I'm sure there are laid back Manchesters out there, but I think in general they can be a bit intense or "high strung" for lack of a better word. A lot of that intense energy though is applied to be loving and loyal to their people.

Just some miscellaneous stuff --they only come in black and tan and they must have "thumprints" or black markings halfway up the tan part of their front legs -- that and the rat tail are the quickest way to distinguish them from minpins. They are also a foundation breed of the Doberman and one of the oldest recognized terrier breeds --thats why when people ask me if Zippy is a little Doberman --I can respond that in a way Dobes are big Manchesters;)




 

Bleuell Papillons

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#73
Does anyone have any experience with Maltese? I would also love information on Silky Terriers and Havanese. Toy Manchesters also interest me.

Now some information on my heart breed Papillons. :)

Papillon and Phalene, Epagneul Nain Continental, Squirrel Spaniel, Continental Toy Spaniel. This breed has many names. Papillon is French for Butterfly and Phalene is French for Night Moth.

Paps are highly intelligent, active, sensitive, and loving. They are one of the most intelligent of all breeds. Paps are velcro dogs that love life. Mine are rarely unhappy. They can be a bit vocal. They love to talk! lol They are soft tempered, and are a bit bossy. They are dogs of royalty. Marie Antoinette and Madame De Pompadour owned them. I haven't really gotten any experience with Phalenes. I have heard some breeders say that they are more soft tempered and easy going than the erect eared dogs. They are the original version.

They don't shed much, and coat care is pretty easy. For dog shows just trim up the feet, pads, pasterns and hocks. Trimming of whiskers is optional. I bathe mine weekly. If we are going to a dog show then I bathe mine that morning.

Papillons are generally a very healthy breed. The main issues are Progressive Retinal Atrophy, Patella Luxation, and heart issues. Mitral Valve Disease, Liver Shunt, and neurological problems are encountered less often. Also, as with other toy and small breeds, if going through surgery they need a smaller dose of anesthesia. They can also suffer from dental problems.

Papillons are medium to high energy. In the house they are mellow, and love just spending time with their people. Outside they are highly energetic. Mine are more one person dogs, but they love everyone.

There is a lot of variance of size and type in the breed. The AKC standard states that Papillons must be 8-11 inches. Over 11 inches is a fault and 12 inches is a disqualification. American types are lighter boned, structurally sound, and have less coat. European types are often times bigger boned, more spaniel-Esq, with a lot more coat and flash. My bitch River is mostly out of American bloodlines. She has just a bit of Swedish in her.

The country of origin is not really known. Most likely from Belgium, France, Italy, Or Spain.
 

Laurelin

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#74
Haha, I just noticed your show name for River. I was wondering if she was related to Ken Mar Party on a Wave. He's Mia's great grandsire on her mom's side. :)
 

Bleuell Papillons

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#75
Yep, River's grandsire is Ken Mar Party On A Wave. She is actually linebred on him. River was from a 1/2 brother, 1/2 sister breeding. So, ours are related. :)

Who are your pap's breeders? What are your dog's reg names? River was bred by Carolyn Mills of Ken Mar Papillons in Colorado.
 

Katkoota

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#76
Does anyone have any experience with Maltese?
I have a first hand experience with a maltese dog. I have a couple of them actually :p

My malts are playful, outgoing, love to play games, love to be in the garden AND will do perfectly well inside too, they love their walks, they love our pool, they are great companions to do whatever you want them to do with you, eager to learn and please, positive training associated with encouragement, love and praise is the perfect training method for them. One of them (Snowy) has a prey drive to tiny creatures, so my guinea pigs are never left out of their houses for a free run in a room where Snowy can be found. Crystal on the other hand showers the small creatures with her kisses (such as my guinea pigs) so you can trust her to be with them all the time if you wish to. That said, both malts love to chase cats they don't know and birds who come to the garden.

I didn't know much about the maltese until I met my Snowy as a gift. The best gift I received in my life. His outgoing personality, confidence, activeness, clownish character, antics, happy-go-lucky spirit is what made me fall head over heels with this breed.

Grooming should be kept in mind when owning a maltese. I don't have a problem with that because my malts are kept on puppy cuts all the time.

Snowy and Crystal fall under FCI standard of a maltese (which is *slightly* different than the AKC standard; example the weight is bigger under FCI than AKC)

Here is the breed standard of the maltese breed under FCI with all the other info such as temperament, life spam and so on. Maltese have single silky coat that doesn't shed. People with allergies do perfect around maltese dogs which is another thing that I love about them.

Just keep in mind that each dog is unique regardless of breed. Snowy and Crystal, although the same breed, have different personalities. There are few differences among them. For example, when it comes to other dogs, Snowy is social to the extreme. He is friends with all dogs he meets for the first time. Crystal, on the other hand, is picky to whom she becomes friends with. When it comes to tiny creatures, Crystal is social to the extreme. She kisses them a lot and loves to be next to them. Snowy on the other hand, acts just like a wolf towards its prey if given the opportunity. Crystal loves to be on your lap for a little cuddle. Snowy does NOT; he'd rather be playing. Snowy and Crystal make a perfect team...one enjoys being the leader of the other one. The other one actually loves to follow, so it works perfectly ;)
 

~Dixie's_Mom~

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#77
I've had three (well two purebreds, and a mix). Total terriers with a capital T.

Love to kill rodents (our first silky, Princess, would bring us HUNDREDS of mice, rats, and moles), love to dig, aren't too yappy for small dogs - Princess never barked except when strangers came to the house, Scamp was a barking MANIAC but he was a little off his rocker anyway, and Lucy also only barked at strangers who came to the house.

They are all cuddly when they want to be, or if you ask them to be, but are definitely SHADOW dogs. They love to be with their people all the time, and will follow you around like a shadow. They're very protective of their owners (not in a bad way). One of the things my dad always says about them that he loved, is that when they sit with you, they always face away from you, because they're watching out for you. They're definitely little "guard" dogs, and will alert you to any "danger".

Overall, they're great dogs. Not sure I wanna own another terrier, but if I did, I think it'd be a Silky. They're just good ol' dogs. :)
 

Michiyo-Fir

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#78
One huge turn-off I read about paps (though I have heard it with other small breeds as well) is that they are incredibly difficult to housetrain. In fact I have even seen a few pap sites stating that it is not unusual for some to never become fully housetrained.

That is :yikes: to me and would be cause for me to never own one.

Is this baloney or does it have an ounce of truth?
I didn't have a problem at all with Nia even though I have heard some people say theirs still weren't reliable by 1 yr old.

Nia came to me at 5.5 months old and by 6 months she was already 98% house trained. The only problems I've had was judging exactly how long she can hold it at 6 months old. When I could judge, there's been no problems and no accidents since about 7 months old. Of course, I suspect her breeder put a ton of time and effort into it because she practically came to me house trained. Nia came to me pee pad trained as well but she really preferred not to use it. When I put her in her room with a baby gate with a pee pad she used to cry and cry until I let her outside to pee. In the end I just took away the pee pad and trained her to pee outside.

Oh btw I'm the one Laur is referring to with the Pap, Chi and Cav.

I'll just add a Cav description.

They are probably the sweetest dogs I've ever met. Very loving, eager to please and wants to be with people. Clingy, some might say. They are intelligent but I find her not to be as mischievous and creative as Nia. She's very willing to learn but are not as fast to grasp concepts as Papillons. Many I know are unbelievably food motivated. Our Cav Truffles will eat herself to death if it's allowed. This can be a great advantage in training compared to a non-food motivated dog like Nia.

They don't NEED tons and tons of exercise. Truffles can pretty much do with two 20min walks a day but she has great endurance. 3 times a week she gets to go to Hyde Park for 2-3 hrs of off leash walking and running and she loves it. Cavs love to chase squirrels and other small animals, probably from their Spaniel roots. I've known many many Cavs and I've practically never known a destructive one.

Grooming isn't too hard, 3 brushes a week would be good. One major area of maintenance are the long feathered ears. They tend to attract dirt, dust, garbage on the ground when the dog sniffs and can tangle. They don't shed that much, less than Papillons I find but it could be because of the weather differences in England and Canada.

Health problems are plentiful in the breed unfortunately.
Syringomyelia and Mitral Valve Disease are the most common and very deadly. Other problems are similar to many toy breeds from dry eyes to luxating patellar. Currently hip dysplasia is becoming very widespread in the breed as well. Episodic falling, Thrombocytopenia and Primary Secretory Otitis Media are common in the breed as well. They are overall just very very unhealthy as a breed.

I hope when I grow old though, I can have a Cav. For now I'm more focused on the more energetic breeds as I don't want to have more than 2 dogs at a time. Cavs will just have to wait. Although Truffles is such a sweetheart and I miss her all the time because she lives in London and I live in Canada.

She's not the best bred Cav lol
 

Katkoota

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#79
Maltese

Just thought of adding the breed standard of a maltese dog :D

Intro info about the maltese dog:

The Maltese is gentle-mannered and affectionate, known for being lively, playful and fearless despite its small size. Maltese are intelligent little dogs that are very fast learners if they feel sufficiently rewarded. Today, their refinement, cleanliness and portability make them a popular choice as a companion dog.

A Look Back
The Maltese was once known as "Ye ancient dogge of Malta," for that is where they were first recognized and how they received their name. The breed has been an aristocrat of the canine world for over 28 centuries, owned by royalty all over the globe. Even as far back as the 1500’s they were claimed to be sold for $2,000. And while other companion dogs such as the Pomeranian have been bred down from larger sizes, the first Maltese were the same size as the dogs we see today.

Right Breed for You?
Even though the Maltese is a very small dog, they tend to be brave and without fear. They are one of the most gentle mannered of all little dogs, but are also full of energy and very playful, making them great family dogs. Maltese should be brushed daily, and groomed often to prevent mats from forming in their long, white coat.

  • Toy Group; AKC recognized in 1888.
  • Under 7 pounds; 4 to 6 pounds preferred.
  • Companion dog.

Maltese Breed Standard
Toy Group​

General Appearance
The Maltese is a toy dog covered from head to foot with a mantle of long, silky, white hair. He is gentle-mannered and affectionate, eager and sprightly in action, and, despite his size, possessed of the vigor needed for the satisfactory companion.

Head
Of medium length and in proportion to the size of the dog. The skull is slightly rounded on top, the stop moderate. The drop ears are rather low set and heavily feathered with long hair that hangs close to the head. Eyes are set not too far apart; they are very dark and round, their black rims enhancing the gentle yet alert expression. The muzzle is of medium length, fine and tapered but not snipy.The nose is black. The teeth meet in an even, edge-to-edge bite, or in a scissors bite.

Neck
Sufficient length of neck is desirable as promoting a high carriage of the head.

Body
Compact, the height from the withers to the ground equaling the length from the withers to the root of the tail. Shoulder blades are sloping, the elbows well knit and held close to the body. The back is level in topline, the ribs well sprung. The chest is fairly deep, the loins taut, strong, and just slightly tucked up underneath.

Tail
A long-haired plume carried gracefully over the back, its tip lying to the side over the quarter.

Legs and Feet
Legs are fine-boned and nicely feathered. Forelegs are straight, their pastern joints well knit and devoid of appreciable bend. Hind legs are strong and moderately angulated at stifles and hocks. The feet are small and round, with toe pads black. Scraggly hairs on the feet may be trimmed to give a neater appearance.

Coat and Color
The coat is single, that is, without undercoat. It hangs long, flat, and silky over the sides of the body almost, if not quite, to the ground. The long head-hair may be tied up in a topknot or it may be left hanging. Any suggestion of kinkiness, curliness, or woolly texture is objectionable. Color, pure white. Light tan or lemon on the ears is permissible, but not desirable.

Size
Under the FCI maltese breed standard: weight between 6.6 lb and 8.8 lb . However, under AKC maltese breed standard: Weight under 7 pounds, with from 4 to 6 pounds preferred. Overall quality is to be favored over size.

Gait
The Maltese moves with a jaunty, smooth, flowing gait. Viewed from the side, he gives an impression of rapid movement, size considered. In the stride, the forelegs reach straight and free from the shoulders, with elbows close. Hind legs to move in a straight line. Cowhocks or any suggestion of hind leg toeing in or out are faults.

Temperament
For all his diminutive size, the Maltese seems to be without fear. His trust and affectionate responsiveness are very appealing. He is among the gentlest mannered of all little dogs, yet he is lively and playful as well as vigorous.

Link: American Kennel Club - Maltese

and following the above info with my most favorite maltese in planet earth; SNOWY

Here is the one and only time I grew Snowy's coat long (If I am not mistaken, this picture of Snowy was taken in late 2008).


Due to our active life style, we stay at a puppy cut.
Here is Snowy the maltese in a puppy cut.


and Snowy the maltese, doing his thing :p
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