starting a Kennel !

gilles

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#1
it was my friend's idea, he said his dream was to have a Kennel for breeding Caucasian shepherds and central asian shepherds he knows a lot about these breeds, he has 2 caucasians and one akita in his house! + he has lots of connections with russian and roumanian Kennels ..anyways he does not have the land for it. so i just said why not! i have the land. so we decided to go for it. we will be specializing in russian giant breeds + other breeds too if we find some nice dogs. but over here caucasian and central asian shepherds are fairly new and the market for them is increasing. we have now 2 caucasians (male and female), one male central asian and one female central asian , one female akita, one boerbel male. but all of them are really really beautiful dogs with all the papers. after the kennel is built we are getting 2 central asian females and 2 caucasian females, an akita male and a boerbel female and probably a couple of rottweilers since they are popular and very marketable over here. but we intend later on getting rare giant breeds other than co and cao, something like tibetean mastiffs and so on..that will be probably in two years. as for now we are just excited and working on the kennel drawings and plans!
our dogs will be spoiled! that s for sure
 

Julee

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#3
Woohoo, a puppy mill for large, powerful guardian breeds! Just what the world needs!
 

HayleyMarie

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#4
Umm... What? So you are going to start up a back yard breeding/puppy mill. Great! Because you know the world needs more of those.

And maybe your first step should be actually Learning to spell some of the breed names correctly first.
 

JazzyTheSibe

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#8
Dear God:eek:
What a great a idea! Because the world needs more puppy mills.

Your grammar is horrifying. Next time, at least try to do better, so people can understand what you wrote.
 

Romy

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#10
All of the breeds you listed are prone to crippling orthopedic problems. Before you think about breeding anybody, they all need to be screened (xrayed) by an orthopedic specialist after they are at least 2 years old. You cannot diagnose by their behavior or by looking at their movement, or even feeling their hips. These dogs are very stoic and have high pain tolerance, so they can be in a great deal of pain and you will never know it.

That aside, all those breeds have different health problems that you need to research before getting into any breeding of them. Especially if you're planning to acquire breeding stock. You need to know what problems to look for. Your friends has friends with kennels, but what if their dogs have genetic diseases? What if they have horrible temperaments?

Also, breeding does not make you money. Dogs die. When I bred my bitch her uterus ruptured during labor and we were minutes away from losing her and the entire litter. The only thing that saved her is the fact that one of the planet's foremost canine reproductive specialists happens to be in driving distance and happens to be my vet.

All in all, from breeding to whelping to raising puppies, it cost me over $5000 US to get one litter of puppies to 9-12 weeks. If you have a large healthy litter, you might make a little bit of profit off the cost of breeding that litter, but any profit from that litter will quickly be eaten up, literally, in other kennel expenses such as food for your males and maintaining your females the rest of the year.

Puppies die. I've seen it happen many, many times in friend's litters. When it happens you often have multiple vet bills from trying to save the puppy and no way to recoup the cost. You would not believe the number of problems a puppy can be born with. I've seen puppies born with broken pelvises, unable to nurse and then aspirated and died from improper tube feeding, born with no anus so they can't poop and had to be euthanized, heart problems that cause the puppies to waste away until they just don't wake up one day.

It's a lot of WORK. Having a litter of newborn puppies around is literally like having a newborn baby, but harder. I say this as someone who has two children. With babies, you get to sleep sometimes. With puppies, for the first several days you're pretty much awake 24/7. Moms sometimes don't want to nurse so you have to make them stay in long enough. Moms sometimes don't want to lick the puppies butts to make them poop or pee, so you have to sit there and wipe each individual puppy's butt with a wet rag until it goes, or it will die. Sometimes you have to bottle feed. Sometimes the mom gets mastitis (aarhg!). Sometimes mother dogs will lay on their puppies and suffocate them (this is pretty common actually) so you have to supervise them constantly.

And the poop.

So. Much. Poop.

This doesn't take into account any training or socialization. If you have one or two litters at a time, you could be trying to keep up with as many as 25 puppies at once, all with varying problems. Just. Yikes.

If you're really serious about this, don't let your friend just talk you into it. It sounds like you're being taken advantage of, because you have the assets to make it happen and you're ignorant enough about breeding that they can make it sound all rosy and wonderful and easy. It's not. At all.

The only legitimate reason to breed a dog is betterment of the breed. Health, temperament, these are crucial especially if you have any ounce of compassion toward dogs and want them to live long happy lives. You cannot breed for the betterment of a breed if you don't know that breed. I would stick with one breed for now. Get a really good mentor with healthy dogs. Learn everything you can. Make goals, and breed for goals. Not to fill a niche market.
 

Mina

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#11
A bit of common courtesy would seem to have been in order!?!
As for those spelling and grammar "concerns",
the O.P. is not from this country/continent.




All of the breeds you listed ...
Thanks for the constructive input, Romy...
Hopefully, it will be taken into careful consideration!

 

gilles

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#12
thanx mina!
and for all the others i speak fluently 4 languages and i am a PhD holder in engineering from a top US university i can send my 21 pages CV to anyone if he/she likes. As for my English mistakes, i can assure you that these are typing errors since i am typing fast and i am not presenting an essay in english...i am finished with that part 35 years ago. so i think i am probably more educated than most of you but thanks for your comments! sorry but my reply is not nearly as sarcastic and negative as your comments.
Romy thank you for your insight and will discuss it point by point with my friend for sure. but what we are planning is not intended for money..money is good but our purpose was to raise such breeds because we love them and unfortunately they do have a bad reputation here and are mainly imported for fighting. so we intend on showing them training them be with them at all times, they will be very much spoiled like a home dog if not more. each dog has his private yard and there is a common playground too. about health issues we are very well covered by a qualifying vet and the dogs we are getting from russia are also screened and checked and all what you want. we are very very careful in selecting dogs. a puppy will only be sold to select people. and if we make money then good if we break even its ok . if we lose money we just stop no harm done.
but i dont understand this attack on me. most of you got their show dogs from a kennel ..not!!! if i am so disliked, then be it i can leave this forum.
 

Locke

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#13
Becoming a good breeder takes a lot more than just getting nice, healthy dogs and putting a male and female together.

The most important thing to do, BEFORE acquiring multiple dogs, is to get involved in the show circuit, find a mentor in your breed of choice and learn all there is to learn about proper type, structure, and temperament. Then decide if you can and are willing to better the breed.

If you feel you are up to that challenge, then go about finding a dog or bitch that will be a good foundation for your breeding program. Do not purchase one male and one female puppy because you have no idea how they will turn out and if they will be a good match and balance each others' faults.



The way you described your kennel plans portrayed very little depth of knowledge of the process and work that goes into breeding. What you described above is essentially how puppy mills are started.
 

Laurelin

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#14
I think if you really want to get into breeding the best thing to do is to get involved in one breed and get as deep into the breed community as possible. Especially with the breeds you're talking about you dont want to take any shortcuts.
 

HayleyMarie

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#15
I think if you really want to get into breeding the best thing to do is to get involved in one breed and get as deep into the breed community as possible. Especially with the breeds you're talking about you dont want to take any shortcuts.
This times a million. If you are serious in breeding pick one breed and stick with it. Get involved in showing, find a mentor who can hold your hand and who you can learn from. Start looking into health testing and breed lines.
 

Romy

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#16
If you feel you are up to that challenge, then go about finding a dog or bitch that will be a good foundation for your breeding program. Do not purchase one male and one female puppy because you have no idea how they will turn out and if they will be a good match and balance each others' faults.
Very much everything Locke has said.

Let's take just one factor out of everything you should consider when planning a breeding; structure

You get a male and female puppy. You raise them up intending to breed them together some day. Those puppies can both be from well structured parents and still be an awful match for each other depending on their strengths and weaknesses.

If both of your dogs grow up to have weak pasterns, guess what all the puppies will inherit? And chances are, their weak pasterns will be at least as bad as the parents, if not worse.

Same for any other problem. Straight stifles (causes knee dislocations, and it's very common in the eastern LGDs), straight fronts, bowed elbows, east/west front feet, missing teeth, cryptorchidism, etc. are just a few examples of inherited faults found in all breeds. And that's only structural. It doesn't even take into account temperament or health, or breed specific conformation.

It's much better to start with one dog, invest a lot of time into training, testing, and proving that dog. Then once you are certain they are worth breeding, search for a compatible mate that will complement your dog's strengths and weaknesses.

Then since you are breeding to improve, you keep the best of that litter for your next generation. That's one of the good things about starting out with few dogs. You have room to improve your breeding program.

Also, you're talking about a lot of dogs. I got my dog from someone who had 9 borzois. But borzois are generally not dog aggressive or same sex aggressive. Her dogs all live in her house, and all get to spend lots of time with her and not have to be separated.

You say you already have 6 dogs. You're talking about starting a kennel with 14 large, dog aggressive, same sex aggressive breeds. Even if you move your bed out to the kennel and sleep out there with the dogs, that doesn't give you enough time to give them enough individual attention to "spoil" them. Most of them will have to be kept separate at all times. That is very sad, especially for breeds that bond so strongly and are so devoted to their people.

I kennel sat for someone with 10 dogs once. I didn't have a day job so had all day to spend with them. That was overwhelming, not fun, and was really hard because the males could not be loose together. 10 adult dogs make a lot of poop to shovel every day. Food preparation/serving alone took me and hour in the morning and an hour every evening because everyone had different amounts, supplements, and medications to be measured out.

Having raised a litter of puppies, I can't imagine having any time to spend with that many adults with puppies on the ground. I only have 2 dogs, and my poor male was horribly lonely while my girl and I were preoccupied with the babies.

Another thing to keep in mind is female dogs synchronize being in heat when kept around each other. So if you have many females, you won't have the option of spacing out your litters because they will all come into heat at the same time.

There is just a lot to learn, and it takes a long time to take it all in. I really encourage you to find a good mentor with the same values as you. There are experienced kennel people out there that you can learn some things from, but they do things like the people you saved Volka from and don't worry about issues like excess puppies or vet bills or aging dogs because they just kill/cull the animals with problems and dispose of older females when they stop being profitable.
 

SaraB

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#17
Find a mentor that you respect and learn, learn, learn. Then learn some more. This is not a business, lives are at stake. If you insist on doing it, do it right.
 
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#18
e and probably a couple of rottweilers since they are popular and very market able
You want to know why you were attacked? That sentence right there did it for me, not just the number of breeds and choice of breeds, but the marketability of said breeds. People who breed properly and reputable do NOT give a crap about how marketable the pups are, they never ever ever expect to make money off a litter, in fact they pretty much expect to loose money on every.single.litter. They do it because the have fallen so in love with their chosen breed(s) that they want to better the breed. They usually only breed when they want a puppy. And for myself any breeder who has more then 2 breeds (3 if it's a couple) is a huge red flag and would turn me off. I know that there is no way they could be investing the time needed to properly train, show and compete with that many dogs, let alone breed and raise puppies.
 

gilles

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#19
we will be specialized in CO and CAO. and my partner is an expert in these breeds. the CO he has are top quality show dogs with flawless heritage.+ we are very well equipped and assisted i failed to mention that. The rottweilers are there belonging to somebody who wants to place them in a kennel where they are treated well. still we are thinking of not taking them because of the extra load work but they are also superb dogs with excellent temperament. The boerboel belongs to a south african beeder who moved over here and he just wants to join in as an employer. his dog is a beauty. All our dogs have all the paperwork and all of them are show dogs. i understand that there are risks to take but we have to start somewhere. we are gathering info at this point and working on getting a permit for a kennel. once we get all ready and in order the rest takes a month or 2 to finish.
Ah yes there is the Akita...well the Lady mmm what can i say just take a lookat her picture and you judge lol she is a model! love at first sight.
but again as we progress our main focus will be CO and CAO.
as for Volka my CAO who was accused of being aggressive in other threads and was criticized by many...well he is 6 and half months old 110 lbs and over 28 inches at the withers..aggressive! today i took him to the park on empty stomach we stayed late and he played with other dogs , he was starving..as we are going towards the car he pulled towards a little 1 year old girl with her mom who seemed comfortable with the dog. the girl was in a baby rolling chair (whatever it is called)holding a cracker. Volka came close sniffing her face her cracker without touching it ( he was licking his lips so hungry) then he went down and sniffed her feet still did not touch her cracker. the girl hit him on the nose and talked to him baby talk and still he was so gentle. after few minutes the mom gave him a cracker he just gulped it instantly! now that's a killer dog!
 
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#20
But all you talk about is size, you have never shown proof of any titles in your dogs lineage, or even a picture of said pup. Let alone any of the above for any of the other dogs you are now planning on housing. All of which are adult dogs living with friends...who are just going to give them to you in a few months time when your kennels are built?

As of right now I'm going with troll as well, and calling (really more hoping) that your story is bs, because you have no clue how to breed properly and will do more harm then good to these breeds you admit are misunderstood in your homeland.
 

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