Small questions about training&behavior

[Eleonora]

My friend thought we would create a thread where people can put questions about dog training and behavior if they are not sure if it creates enough discussion for a separate thread.

She thought that we would start by asking about e-collars:


My friend would not use e-collars with any dogs, but she has something to ask about them. She had read and heard horrible things about them and using them causes these things:

Suppression, modification, shutdown and fallout

My friend had seen videos of them. She had seen only one video where the dog suffered from the e-collar. However, in many other videos dogs seems to be happy and excited to learn although they have e-collars. Not even those dogs that had behaviorial issues seemed to suffer from them. So my friend wants to know why the dogs that had been trained with e-collars doesn't suffer from them although she had heard and read that they would

My friend has read about dog language and calming signals. She had read that when the dogs are trained with e-collars, they would get stressed and they would use calming signals. When she watched the videos, she expected that those dogs would behave that way, but no...
She wondered why those dogs behaved differently to what she had read.

 

[casey82]

As with anything, it depends on the dog. Also the e-collars they make now are super adjustable, and can be set at a really low level. The dog feels more of an irratation and not so much pain. Also people who use e-collars well, don't just slap a collar on the dog and hit the button. There's a lot of conditioning that goes into it. They also teach the dog what it is supposed to do when it feels the stim.

 

[frostfell]

Its a training tool, like any other, and is no more or less abusive than anything else. I have seen dogs go into total shutdown when a flat collar and traffic lead is put on, because of the negative associations they have learned with that tool. Everything depends on the skill and experience of the person holding it

 

[Eleonora]

We told that my friend would not use e-collars with any kind of dogs. So, she doesn't have any experience or opinion of e-collars so she cannot say is it or isn't it true what you say:

As with anything, it depends on the dog. Also the e-collars they make now are super adjustable, and can be set at a really low level. The dog feels more of an irratation and not so much pain. Also people who use e-collars well, don't just slap a collar on the dog and hit the button. There's a lot of conditioning that goes into it. They also teach the dog what it is supposed to do when it feels the stim.

Its a training tool, like any other, and is no more or less abusive than anything else. I have seen dogs go into total shutdown when a flat collar and traffic lead is put on, because of the negative associations they have learned with that tool. Everything depends on the skill and experience of the person holding it

So, my friend is interested to know what is your opinion about some things?:

She had read and heard horrible things about them

For example in this article: http://eileenanddogs.com/2012/12/03/really-just-a-tap/

She has also read her other articles there. So, what do you think about that?

My friend had read that the dogs that have behaviorial issues should not be trained with e-collars, however:

My friend had seen videos of them....//....Not even those dogs that had behaviorial issues seemed to suffer from them...

Do you know why?

My friend has also this question: she has seen this tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DWbV5VKZxc

Under the tutorial the trainer writes that the dogs that have been trained with e-collars should not be teached to do the actual behavior. Can someone tell more about it?

 

[Eleonora]

My friend would also like to ask about this:

When the dog is trained to lay down via bow and one would like to teach her/him also to bow, then how would s/he learn to distinguish those behaviours from each other? How would a dog know witch one is asked from her?

 

[casey82]

Well it's not really a matter of your friends opinion or wether or not she'd use one on her dog. There are many people who do advanced training on this forum. Some of them do bite work and use e-collars. They still have happy dogs. Their dogs love to work. That's the proof. There are some sensitive dogs out there that would shut down with e-collar use. I think I have one as well as your friend. You're also right about no dog NEEDS an e-collar. They can be useful in certian situations. It really is about what you are training your dog to do and what you're comfortable with. Even poeple on this forum who use e-collars still train foundations positively.

 

[Saeleofu]

I just wanted to pop in and say this absolutely deserves its own thread, and I caution against turning this into yet another mega-thread. A mega-thread made of training questions is not going to get the views and replies for each question - some are bound to be missed, and others not discussed in depth. So, this is a great thread with great questions, own it and don't let it be a mega thread!

 

[Eleonora]

I caution against turning this into yet another mega-thread. A mega-thread made of training questions is not going to get the views and replies for each question - some are bound to be missed, and others not discussed in depth. So, this is a great thread with great questions, own it and don't let it be a mega thread!

My friend thought that we would tell what is the idea of this thread. She meant that also others could ask questions here.

My friend thought we would create a thread where people can put questions about dog training and behavior if they are not sure if it creates enough discussion for a separate thread.

She also meant that if the question is too short or one wants only a short answer. Was it a bad idea to create this thread? If so,
in which thread we can ask about a) e-collars?

We told that:

...My friend would not use e-collars with any dogs, but she has something to ask about them...

I just wanted to pop in and say this absolutely deserves its own thread

The reason why we wrote about this topic in this thread was that my friend is not so much interested in it and she would like to have only a short answer to two more question. We can tell more if you can tell where we can ask them. My friend has not found many new threads about them.

b) in which thread can we ask about bow? My friend has already teached her dog, Lotta, to lay down but not to bow yet. There is a lot of information of how to teach it. Her question is too short for a separate thread.

 

[Greenmagick]

As far as e-collars go...I know many people do use them however I will not...I do not like them. Do really good people who have great relationships with their dogs use them? Yes...so I am not saying that they are some horrible you are killing your dog thing. I will say, there is NOTHING an e-collar can do that something else can't so it becomes a personal decision to use one or not.

My friend would also like to ask about this:

When the dog is trained to lay down via bow and one would like to teach her/him also to bow, then how would s/he learn to distinguish those behaviours from each other? How would a dog know witch one is asked from her?

I am a bit confused by this. ONe is called "down" and one is called "bow". The dog knows which one you want by saying which one you want. I have never taught laying down from bow as I always taught it from a sit but same idea.

 

[Eleonora]

Well it's not really a matter of your friends opinion or wether or not she'd use one on her dog....//....There are some sensitive dogs out there that would shut down with e-collar use. I think I have one as well as your friend...//... It really is about what you are training your dog to do and what you're comfortable with.

First of all, my friend may discuss/ask also about things that doesn't relate to her dog. She would like to have only short answers to the following comments/questions:

We told that:

She had read and heard horrible things about them

For example in this article: http://eileenanddogs.com/2012/12/03/really-just-a-tap/

She has also read her other articles there. So, what do you think about that?

That person writes that e-collars would cause pain to the dog. If that is so then how is this possible?:

There are many people who do advanced training on this forum. Some of them do bite work and use e-collars. They still have happy dogs. Their dogs love to work. That's the proof...//...They can be useful in certian situations...//... Even poeple on this forum who use e-collars still train foundations positively.

Is that person wrong or how is it? She has knowledge on dog training and behavior. She has also experience on dog training and has consulted professional dog trainers. My friend is not saying that other users would be wrong, she would only like to know it.

We also told that:

My friend had read that the dogs that have behaviorial issues should not be trained with e-collars

or with any kind of punishments or corrections because it would make those issues worse. So, how is this possible?:

My friend had seen videos of them....//....Not even those dogs that had behaviorial issues seemed to suffer from them...

My friend has also this question: she has seen this tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DWbV5VKZxc

Under the tutorial the trainer writes that the dogs that have been trained with e-collars should not be teached to do the actual behavior. Can someone tell more about it?

So, like we told, my friend would like to have only short answers about e-collars.

ONe is called "down" and one is called "bow". The dog knows which one you want by saying which one you want. I have never taught laying down from bow as I always taught it from a sit but same idea.

So, you are saying that the dog would learn to distinguish those behaviors from each others somehow. Has she understood it right? My friend would like to add this: they say that the dog might confuse bow with down because they sound the same. We live in Finland and there is not the same problem in finnish.

 

[BostonBanker]

So, you are saying that the dog would learn to distinguish those behaviors from each others somehow. Has she understood it right? My friend would like to add this: they say that the dog might confuse bow with down because they sound the same. We live in Finland and there is not the same problem in finnish.

Yes, the dog should be able to distinguish the two behaviors. They are two different behaviors, just like "sit" and "down". The only possible confusion I could see is if the command isn't clearly spoken and the words sound alike (which doesn't seem to be an issue in your language). If you are concerned about it, call bow something else when you teach it. Gusto is learning bow with the cue "ta-da". But he knows sit, flip, and tip, and distinguishes between those just fine. I enunciate the word and each has a bit of a different emphasis and time it is likely to be used. No issues.

 

[Emily]

I will say, there is NOTHING an e-collar can do that something else can't so it becomes a personal decision to use one or not.

:rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:

 

[JacksonsMom]

I'm kind of tired and don't really feel like reading through this thread as some of the questions are confusing me :rofl1:

I don't like e-collars and I don't think the average joe schmo should be allowed to buy them and just put them on their dogs. But I don't think they're some nasty evil dog-hating device either. I just don't think I'd ever use one.