Shiloh Shepherds

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#1
Note: this is just an idle question, I'm not racing out to spend $1600 on a puppy. I was flipping through Dog World the other day and saw the truly enormous listings for Shiloh Shepherds. My understanding has always been that they're basically labradoodles and puggles for the genitally embarassed male human. But they've been around forever and they certainly seem to be overrepresented in the breeder columns of dog magazines. Anyone know for certain what they are?
 

Zoom

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#3
I'm a little upset with Dog World's classified section, but seeing as how the people pay money for the ad... :rolleyes:

Don't they have something else mixed in with them, like tundra wolf or something?
 
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Son of a gun.

http://www.shilohshepherds.info/whatIsAShilohShepherd.htm

They are, according to this site, neither wolf hybrids nor long-haired GSDs, but the Master Race of dogs. The info about what they are rambles, and there's this huge digression about some breakaway group of breeders who are 'ruining' the breed, but it appears to boil down to a belief that these particular dogs, who are distinguished by being absolutely enormous, are better than dogs because of their exclusive breeding back to old dogs who have a very remote connection to wolves and wolf-like dogs. The site repeatedly says they're not just dogs, they can't be trained like they were dogs, etc. They are, apparently, Superdogs.

Shiver me timbers, and pass me the genetic superiority codebook. It's an even BIGGER freakshow than I had thought.
 
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whatszmatter

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#6
Since they're the Master Race, I'd love for them to show me ONE that is pulling sleds, ONE that is doing patrol work, ONE that has competed in any sport and won, ONE that is good at anything other than being what thousands of other dogs are, just "good" dogs.

I know they've infused some malmute into the breed, their are rumors and such on other breeds, not really sure what they are, nor do I really care. All I know is they are about a million miles away from what the "breeders" say they are.
 

Barb04

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#7
We were supposed to get one (actually paid $1,600) to the breeders who are the founders in upstate NY. We found out through other sources (we didn't know much about researching at the time) that they kind of run a puppy mill and their dogs are sickly. There would be a 50/50 chance of getting a well dog. They wouldn't give us our money back and we just couldn't think of taking a dog from them only to have it become sick and die. We learned our lesson about researching breeders after this.
 

BostonBanker

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I've met two of them, and although they certainly have their good points (like any dog), neither was much like the breed descriptions I had read. One was very nervous and flighty, and the other has some pretty intense territorial issues.

And that link gave me a headache with all the caps.
 

Zoom

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Between the caps and the multiple exclamation points at the end of every sentence, I didn't get very far. Just enough to know that it was a lot of enthusiasm backed by very little documented fact.
 

Jynx

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I was a member of the Shiloh club around 5-7 years ago, when I became interested in them, having GSD's..I also have a good friend who has gone thru 3 of the "founders" dogs,,

My friend acquired two puppies for possible breeding from her, one arrived with parvo and died, the second had such bad hips he was put down, she rec'vd a replacement pup prior to the 2nd being put down, she never got a replacement nor her money back for the 2nd dog..The 3rd dog who was gorgeous by the way, also had bad hips, had hip surgery when he was a year old.

Shilohs were basically started because the founder wasn't happy with the way GSD's were going , she wanted to start her own breed, big was bred to bigger, long haired etc..malmute was thrown in over the years, They are NOT what the "original GSD' was supposed to be,,if Max (the founder of the gsd) ever saw the shilohs (and heck ya some of the gsd's) of today, he'd croak all over again.

I have met quite a few at rare breed shows, I've liked maybe 2, temperament wise. Gorgeous dogs, temperaments aren't what I would want, to big, not a big enough gene pool to "better" the dog. In my opinion, the founder has made a huge mess of starting a new breed. There are some who have broken off from her and have tried to clean up her mess.

Big is not always better. You can find a GSD with long hair and big size just as easy. (bigger gene pool)

How many Shiloh's can you find registered on the OFA database? Not many.
I do commend those trying to clean up the breed.
A gsd I had years ago, who was HUGE, (to the breeders "shock") after researching back on his pedigree, there were dogs listed that were used in original shiloh breeding program.
Ok done rambling
Diane
 

sync99

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HI! Thanks Tina for posting my website.How's that Handsome Boone doing?

I saw tons of clicks from this link, so I checked it out and registered! I would like to clear up a few things. I have to agree with most of the comments made here. There is a tendency with some breeders to romanticize the breed. They are not super dogs...but they are wonderful dogs. One thing I always tell future puppy owners is that they are Shepherds, and need to be treated as such. they are not Golden retrievers. What makes them different than standard GSD's is their size, structure and their drive. They are much mellower dogs, more laid back. And they are more suited for therapy work than Shutzund. They describe the breed as Aloof...and boy are they correct! But they are still territorial, can be fearful if not properly socialized and very intelligent, like a GSD!

Now I am one of the breeders that broke away from our breed founder, and the horror stories coming out of that kennel are terrible... Most of us are very strict about health testing, and thoroughly check hips/elbows/heart/thyroid/ etc... prior to breeding any dog. Like with any breed, make sure you ask the breeder for proof of testing, don't just take their word for it. there are many very healthy shilohs out there and many very honest breeders.

The shiloh has been around "officially" since 1991. The mix involved according to the breed founder is malamute, white shepherd and of course German shepherds.

If you have any questions about the breed, please feel free to ask me!

Have a great day!

Caroline
Owned by 4 Shiloh Shepherds, Gunner, Lola, Maggy and Aly
www.boldcanine.com
 

Tinaweena

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#15
Wow Caroline...imagine meeting you here!! haha
Boone is doing wonderfully, we got him a brother a few weeks ago also. Jin, a black labradoodle from the humane society!

We will (I'm sure) be coming to another session of classes when the weather gets nice again with both of them!
 

sync99

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Congrats Tina! I am sure Boone is enjoying his new brother! Can't wait to meet him. Let me know if you nedd any help.

I was tracking the hits on my website, and saw this site pop up numerous times, so I checked it out and there you were! LOL it seems like a great place to talk about dogs.

Caroline
 

Tinaweena

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Congrats Tina! I am sure Boone is enjoying his new brother! Can't wait to meet him. Let me know if you nedd any help.

I was tracking the hits on my website, and saw this site pop up numerous times, so I checked it out and there you were! LOL it seems like a great place to talk about dogs.

Caroline
They really do love each other. We were so lucky they adjusted so well. No fighting at all. Took one night for them to figure out who was who, and now they just groom each other and nap in a big heap!! Sometimes they crawl into each others crates...it can get a little crowded in there!
The new guy is a HUGE suck....just wants to be pet all the time.
Boone has calmed down a TON in the house, cuz he's always tuckered out from playing with his brother in the backyard.
It was the best thing for him I think. Boone is doing well with his training (we love the collar btw!) hehe. Jin came to us, basically totally trained....still working on him knowing where the door is to potty, but he's catching on. Boone is helping teach him to use the bells.
Jin's recall is incredible! So he's teaching that to Boone a bit.

But we still want to come for some more formal stuff when it gets nice out again, so we will be in contact (on here it seems now too!)
 
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#18
There is a tendency with some breeders to romanticize the breed.
Truer words were never spoken, for all breeds.

What makes them different than standard GSD's is their size, structure and their drive. They are much mellower dogs, more laid back. And they are more suited for therapy work than Shutzund. They describe the breed as Aloof...and boy are they correct! But they are still territorial, can be fearful if not properly socialized and very intelligent, like a GSD!
OK, you were so nice about not ripping my head off despite my rather snippy comments about your breed I'm hesitant to offend you more by grilling you about this. Be assured I'm just curious, not leading to something snotty. To me, an aloof dog is a dog who isn't very 'into' human contact, and that seems like a bad choice for therapy work.
 

sync99

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Casablanca, please don't hesitate to ask me anything! I will respond as honestly as I know how :) I wanted to come here to help understand the breed better. And don't take anything personally. As we all know, every breed has their good and not so good points...

Aloof is a strange word to me, and understand how it may be perceived as stand offish. What I see in my shilohs (especially my boy Gunner) is that it is difficult to keep him focused on a specific task for long periods of time. I guess short attention span is a better term. He loves people and other animals, and is always very happy to say hi to them and get a good cuddle, I can throw anything at him and he is more than happy to go with it, but after a while he just gets bored and wants to move on. We actually have many shilohs that are certified for therapy work, I think the main quality is that they are so mellow and laid back.

When i walk down the street with him, he won't greet people until I tell him to. Now wether that is training or his personality, it's hard to tell. All of my dogs must wait for the "go say hi" command before greeting anyone, they are quite large and I don't want people to be afraid!

I have 3 "working" shilohs, they basically help me in the training business. Gunner is trained around very dog aggressive dogs, he has learned not to react to aggressive behavior and accompanies me on private training sessions. Lola is 2, and she assists me in classes, because I can keep her attention for close to 1 hour. Aly is my new girl (4 months) and I think she will be very good at both tasks, as well as possibly agility and tracking, but that remains to be determined.

Hope this helps!
Caroline
 

sync99

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#20
By the way Casablanca, I thoroughly enjoyed your posts and the humor behind them! I had a good laugh because...I agreed with you! Some comments are just ridiculous!

And that link you posted is aweful, no wonder people think were nuts!
(that's from our breed founder, most of us think that she is insane)
 
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