Separation Anxiety - progress?

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#1
Has anyone had real progress with a dog with separation anxiety?

My 7 month old Bouvier des Flandres has had separation anxiety since the day we got him at 10 weeks. He is extremely attached to me (breed typical) and barks, howls, and paces the entire time he is left alone. This problem is not uncommon with the breed.

I have been working with him daily for 6 months on being OK being left alone in his crate while I'm in another room. Very little progress. He is rarely left crated while I'm out, as I take him with me in the vehicle most times (where he is completely ok to be alone). After reading book after book, my goal has been to not leave him alone until we can conquer this problem, except during controlled training exercises.

Well, he's now nearly 8 months and still can't be left alone without panicking. I've tried all the usual (TV on, old shirt of mine, spraying Adaptil, Zylkene pills, blah blah blah). I've done daily exercises of leaving him crated while I come and go out of the room and maybe even into the garage.

He is NOT an anxious or nervous dog overall. Only when left all alone. I have been training daily with him, as well as attending training classes since the day I got him. He is actually a favorite at the puppy agility class with all the instructors because he is fearless, and doesn't need a slow into to any equipment. He's "game" for anything.

I have a Treat and Train that I've used with mixed success - the first few times I set it to dispense intermittently, and it kept him calm and occupied until it ran out of kibble. The last few times I've tried to use it, he no longer stays calm and focused on the food.

I am out of ideas, and frankly find myself losing patience.

I would love to hear from anyone who has faced a similar problem, and has had success in dealing with it.
 
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#2
Yes! Ryker has had severe separation anxiety since I brought him home at 8 weeks old. He would poop in the house everyday, howl, chew up the door frame and door knob, and shake whenever he was left alone. Up until about 6 months ago I did EVERYTHING to try and help it, more exercise, food toys, natural supplements, thundershirt, de sensitizing training, etc, etc.

Well I finally gave up and found a veterinary behaviorist. I wish I had done it sooner. She prescribed fluoxetine (generic prozac) along with training. The medication has helped SO MUCH. On a typical weekday he does still get anxious when we leave, but he is asleep 10 minutes after we are gone, no pooping, no chewing, no barking.

However, if I do need to leave at a time that isn't my normal work routine, his anxiety is worse. Like if I leave on a weekend, he will sometimes bark and poop very rarely. Hopefully with more time and training this will get better. Routine is so important with dogs who have separation anxiety.

I would highly recommend that you seek out a veterinary behaviorist (not just a regular behaviorist that has no formal training).
 
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#3
Separation anxiety is NOT my forte, but my boss deals with tons of it. With owner dedication, an individual training plan, and sometimes medication you can see a lot of improvement.

I'll second Jadex's suggestion of a veterinary behaviorist. If that's not available, find a trainer in your area that's knowledgeable and experienced with SA. The APDT website (apdt.com) is usually a great place to start the search for a good trainer.

Good luck, I know it's a very frustrating issue.
 
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#4
Thanks guys. I haven't found a veterinary behaviorist where I live, and my vet will not prescribe an SSRI (clomicalm, etc) because he is still so young. Which is why he's currently on useless Zylkene pills.

I have done a ridiculous amount of reading on this topic, but none of the training plans have made one bit of difference. I can NEVER get past the first step (him remaining totally calm with me in another room) despite months of daily practice.

I've started yelling at him (NO!) when he kicks up a fuss and I'm in another room. Not proud of it, but it seems to be the only thing that has made a difference :eek: Not something you'd read as a recommendation.
 
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#5
Oh, and I have spoken to every trainer I can find in my small Canadian city of 200k people. Hands down, I know much more about this topic than any of them. So frustrating.
 

Elrohwen

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#6
Watson's SA is fairly mild - no destruction or pooping in the house or anything, but when he was younger he would bark in his crate for well over an hour. I've also watched him bark and pace for hours if we go out in the evening (he'll lay down on the couch for a minute, get up, pace, bark a bit, go back to the couch, repeat).

I never tried meds because it wasn't that bad, but otherwise the only thing that has made a difference is time and being loose instead of in the crate. With age he's settled a lot and learned to be more flexible. He used to pitch a fit if I went upstairs without him, or left him in the car, but with maturity he learned that it wasn't a big deal and while he watches and waits for my return, he doesn't freak out any more. At this point he's completely ok with us leaving for work on our normal schedule, though he will still pace and bark if we go out in the evening or something.

So sorry for not having any great advice, but I do think maturity will help him, and I agree with the others about trying to get him on Prozac or something that will help lower his anxiety levels so he can realize the world doesn't end when you leave.
 
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#7
Louis will keep up the barking and pacing for as long as we're out - so far the longest was 5 hours. Ugh.
 

stardogs

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#9
Have you looked into the Relaxation Protocol from Karen Overall? I find it useful as a supplement to regular SA graduated departure protocols. The booklet "I'll Be Home Soon" is also a great resource to make sure you're not accidentally missing a component.

Have you used treat dispensing toys? I find them more useful than the Manners Minder for these sorts of situations IF the dog will work on them.

I've recently been having great luck with Composure chews for several hyperactivity/anxiety cases. Might be worth a look given your vet's stance.
 

monkeys23

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#10
DAP and rescue remedy would be good things to try if the vet doesn't want to put a puppy on drugs.
However if the pup is biologically wired for this... its going to have to go on something to balance its body chemistry and have a normal life and the sooner the better. I'd look for a new vet if that is truly what you feel is going on.

Always look to any food sensitivities or environmental allergies too. Or any structural issues. Many dogs if they don't feel good can exhibit signs like excessive clingyness or grumpiness. Depends on the dog, but it should be looked at as part of the overall evaluation.

Get this if you don't have it already: http://www.amazon.com/Leave-Step-Step-Separation-Anxiety/dp/0981722733

Honestly, yes and no.

A dog wired for that is always going to be wired that way. Biological nerve issues like SA are managable through training and medication, but it is a lot more work than living with a "normal" dog.

Even with drugs and very good b-mod training some dogs still have very serious anxiety. It depends on the individual dog and their hardwiring. It's very hard to say well apply such and such fix and everything will be fine because every dog is an individual, every person is as well, every living situation is different, and so on.

Living with these sort of issues also requires a commitment to be constantly observing and evaluating your training & management plan. What if some sort of issue you didn't expect comes out and you need to completely reevaluate?

The constant stress, even with good drugs and other management tools, will not only wear on the afflicted dog, but it will wear on you as the dog's primary caretaker, and it will wear on your other pets (if you have any). The financial wear and tear can be a big deal too.

Many people can just buy all the drugs in the world and go to behaviorists, etc. etc. I can't afford those things, so our management & training approach is a lot different than what people are generally advised of. Still make progress and have a happy day to day management plan. What if someone can't afford to never leave their dog alone because they have to work? What if they don't have friend's to babysit? What if the dog is too scared and reactive to other dogs to be in a daycare? What if daycare makes the dog anxious? What if the dog is nervous of strange people?

I'm lucky (or am I?) my anxious dog is fine as long as my older dog is with her, so I have a patch fix. Honestly if somehow she were the only dog and her anxiety levels spiked severely we'd have to look hard at quality of life because it is very stressful to have no choice about taking both of them everywhere and has been very frustrating as far as holding my other dog and I back both financially and logistically in our training and hell even the major lifestyle changes we've made for my anxious dog. I really don't feel comfortable bringing another dog into that, so I would not trot out and get another dog if something unexpectedly happened to Lily and Scout lost her mind suddenly being an only dog. I find a way to afford putting her on drugs and try to get her quality of life back to a good level and hopefully it'd work. I don't really want to think about the alternative. Anyway Lily is going to live forever. :p

It is hard, but you know you still love your dog to pieces and the little triumphs are that much sweeter. A big goofy grin has that much more value. What you are willing to try and work with is a very personal decision and I think finding all the info possible to make your planning decisions is important. It's a hell of a road. Honestly I won't do it again with a different anxious dog, but I wouldn't change taking Scout in either. If that makes sense.
 

monkeys23

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#11
Have you looked into the Relaxation Protocol from Karen Overall? I find it useful as a supplement to regular SA graduated departure protocols.
Yes!!! This is great to work through! :)

Also working through Control Unleashed exercises helps a lot.

Honestly the best general anxiety progress for us came from doing a lot of training teaching alternate behaviors. Private lessons working on confidence building using CU and BAT type training and doing a reactive dog/focus class to work on confidence building in a more complex environment.

Also I have to say my anxious dog isn't just SA. She has major general anxiety from both poor nerve and being born out of a hoarding bust. Those cases from what I've read and experienced are a little different than typical SA.
 
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#12
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses. I looked at Karen Overall's relaxation protocol some time ago, and it wasn't particularly helpful. I will revisit the " sit while I leave the room for a few seconds" bit again.

Here is the thing - Louis is not anxious overall. He is not a nervous dog. In fact, he does not really react to loud sounds, new situations, busy places, etc. He's a really cool dog, except when left all alone. He is often described by various trainers as fearless.

Separation anxiety is unfortunately an extremely common problem with the Bouvier des Flandres. People have told me some seem to eventually grow out of it. Some do not. They are a crazy-loyal to owner breed, which unfortunately sometimes spills over into separation anxiety.

I have literally dozens of food dispensing toys. I have a freezer full of stuffed frozen kongs. If I get him settled into his crate with a kong / marrow bone/ other long lasting chew before I leave, and he gets to work immediately, he will sometimes stay calm until the chew is finished. Though this is happening less and less. The more usual response now is to not touch the treats at all while I'm away, and when I come back and let him out of his crate, to quickly grab them and enjoy them.

I have also tried leaving him loose while I'm out (never thought I'd consider that with a 7 month old pup!). Doesn't make a difference. Just gives him more space to pace and bark and howl.
 
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#13
And I have several books on the topic.

I feel like I'm at a loss. I can't take him in the vehicle with me as soon as the weather warms up, and then I feel like he's going to have a terrible life of panic as soon as I start being forced to leave him alone in the warmer months.

I have 3 kids and a husband, and we've already made HUGE lifestyle changes because of this.
 
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#14
Jadex, can you tell me specifically what the training protocol has been?
Basically this http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/is...-Protocol-and-Separation-Anxiety_20604-1.html

And then I would step outside for 1 min, 2 min, 5 min, 10 min, ect. If they are showing signs of anxiety at any point then you need to go back a step.

I did do this before seeing a behaviorist and it did not do us much good. The medication in combination with the training is what helped us. Ryker was around a year old when we put him on meds.

Also, once we had his anxiety under control we added another dog. Another dog did not help his anxiety, but we didn't get the dog for that reason. Just so you know adding another dog wont make a difference since his anxiety is linked to you. If anything, having another dog has made it more difficult. I cannot leave him alone without the other dog now otherwise his anxiety will be worse.

Confinement makes his anxiety worse as well.
 
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monkeys23

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#15
How does he do when uncrated or in an alternative containment such as an xpen or dog run?

As Nicole Wilde points out, many dogs with purely SA and no other issues like general anxiety or isolation anxiety going on do worse being tightly contained via crate than they do having a designated room for them.

The relaxation protocol is really good because it builds the distance tiny layer by tiny layer. You can do it with all three positions and not only sit. He is telling you that starting out being in a seperate room is too much to start with for him. Take a big step back and start really small.

I think you will be surprised what happens if you take the time to build your layers. I know how tempting it is to want them to just get over it and want to lump right to the end product as fast as possible. I am really guilty of it myself and I've paid for it by having to start over many times before.

I would work on going to a mat and It's Yer Choice as well as the relaxation protocol. Matwork is really great for getting the dog to be comfy going away from you. If you coupled it with a Manner's Minder you could keep your rate of reinforcement really high which will help you progress faster. Seriously machine gun speed reinforcement is what you want in the beginning. And distance might only be a half a step away from him at first. It snowballs pretty fast, but if you skip steps it comes out later on.

On the stuffed toy thing... my anxious dog won't touch stuffed toys or bones while I'm gone. Not even with my other dog with her. If she's on her tie-out in my mom's yard (out in the boonies, they have about 160 acres) she will totally relax and chew a bone. I think the anxiety of our neighbors and general "town" at the apt is the key to her not being able to relax and be occupied with a goodie.
 

PennyD

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#16
This is a huge issue with my dog!
No matter when, what, or how I leave her behind, she always has intense separation anxiety. I've filmed her (as she tears up the door frames and various pieces of furniture) and she is always like this.
What are some immediate fixes short of medication or boarding?
Thanks.
 
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#17
I think what has happened over the past several months of dealing with this is that I start out great at building tiny layers, but then don't see any progress at all and get frustrated and back off, and do nothing other than take Louis with me everywhere. Then I start again, get no where, and get frustrated.

At this point I think that medication will be key to getting part the first initial baby steps.

I used to think he remained a little more calm if he wasn't crated when we were away, but I've revised that opinion. I mean, maybe he's slightly more calm, but he still barks his fool head off non stop, paces from one door to the next, pants, drools, etc.

He is only 8 months old, so I'm not completely comfortable not crating him. We live in a very open concept house, which makes finding a way to confine him in some way very difficult. I was using the mud room for a while, but it really didn't make any difference.

I think I need to visit my vet again, and insist on real pharmaceuticals. This is creating a lot of stress in my life, which really can't be helping matters.
 
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#18
Oh, and PennyD, there really are no quick or immediate fixes. Unfortunately. Have you tried any counterconditioning, or desensitizing training?

Taking your pup to a daycare might be your best option for the short term, assuming your dog is the type to enjoy daycare.

Luckily Louis LOVES daycare. However, that is no longer an option since he isn't neutered.
 

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