"SDs" at Airport?

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#61
But if there was a national certification and the dog didn't have it then out they go, there are no other questions, the dog is certified, or it goes out, that's it. Ranting and swearing would do nothing, and posting the video would do nothing because the guy either would or wouldnt have REAL id, not some Cracker Jack box id.
And when someone makes a youtube video featuring their fake certification, the general public is going to calmly and logically understand that it was fake and not real?

The manager at Walgreens in that video asked all the right questions, when he didn't get the right answers he asked the guy to leave, and the guy flipped out. What other training is he supposed to have?
So the guy has fake certification, the manager asks him to leave and the guy flips out. How has this situation been improved for anyone?
 
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#63
There are no (good) psychiatric service dog organizations, it's a very difficult thing to mass-train for. Those people would no longer be able to have their service dog. Seizure alert/response dogs are difficult to mass-train for. Mobility and guidework are easier, but most programs still screw it up. There are maybe 2-3 programs (between all of the different jobs) that I would ever consider recommending to someone. They just aren't as good of an option as people believe.
Maybe going a little off topic, but I thought some of the veteran service dog programs were pretty good? Don't most of those fall under psychiatric dogs more than physical disability?
 

Julee

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#64
Raegan, most of them aren't as good as they seem. Plus, those who have PTSD (or something else) that are not veterans are told to buzz off. A friend of mine (before she opted to owner train for a third time) was in the military but was not deployed was told by MANY programs that her PTSD wasn't legitimate enough for them to give her a dog, simply because she wasn't deployed.

Ruffian, I've had my dog (nearly) attacked by both fakers and program dogs. I'm a vigilant enough handler that I was able to prevent it, but if I had been in a wheelchair, or dissociated? Em can take care of herself, but she shouldn't have to.

Also, I saw the video but didn't really dive into it any further than that. How do we know the dog was an ESA? Many vets recieving dogs don't know the difference between an ESA and a PSD, even though it's a PSD that they're being given. "Emotional support dog" sounds nicer than "Psychiatric service dog", though legally they are separate things.

I personally don't feel that people who are unaffected by service dogs and are not involved with them should have any input regarding the laws, but that's me.
 

RBark

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#65
Agreed on that last paragraph.

Thankfully all the major service dog organizations are against certification.
 

Dizzy

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#66
I didn't even know fake service dogs were a thing until people posted it on here. In fact, I didn't know so many people in the US used service dogs until Chaz.... Seems like 90% of you have a dog that does something for you.

Here we have dogs for the blind/deaf/mobility dogs etc. I'm sure there's dogs for autism too, and maybe a handful of other things. I'm not really sure on the full scope of it. But you can ask if they will train your dog, but your dog will need to meet pretty high standards.

Ok google helps.

http://www.assistancedogs.org.uk/member-organisations/

Each organisation has it's own vest to identify that dog clearly.

And an interesting read on the faqs, no point me regurgitating it.

http://www.assistancedogs.org.uk/faqs/

Scroll to the bottom regarding recognition of some support dogs in the us and on airlines.
 

AliciaD

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#67
Raegan, most of them aren't as good as they seem. Plus, those who have PTSD (or something else) that are not veterans are told to buzz off. A friend of mine (before she opted to owner train for a third time) was in the military but was not deployed was told by MANY programs that her PTSD wasn't legitimate enough for them to give her a dog, simply because she wasn't deployed.
:wall:
 
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#68
I personally don't feel that people who are unaffected by service dogs and are not involved with them should have any input regarding the laws, but that's me.
I don't feel that way, either, and I don't think I said I did?

What I DO think is that people should ask themselves what their motivation truly is for thinking certification should be a requirement and whether it's based on making service dog handlers' lives easier, in response to actual problems, or because of some sense of personal outrage that someone is doing something they shouldn't.
 

MicksMom

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#69
I would be the first to agree that there's a problem with fakers. The solution is to enforce laws that already exist to protect businesses and the public. The solution is for businesses to learn their rights and train how to enforce it. Why make new laws when the existing ones aren't enforced?...
Absolutely.
 

Julee

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#70
I didn't even know fake service dogs were a thing until people posted it on here. In fact, I didn't know so many people in the US used service dogs until Chaz.... Seems like 90% of you have a dog that does something for you.
90% of citizens, or 90% of people in this thread?

There really aren't as many service dogs as there appears to be in dog circles such as Chaz. I live in an area where there are three major programs nearby (ECAD [ew], Guiding Eyes, and Fidelco [also ew]), and I still see another service dog maybe once or twice per year. Aside from friends' SDs, of course. It makes sense that people who love dogs would consider a service dog as a treatment option should the need arise, which is why there appears to be such a high rate of them in dog communities.
 

Julee

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#71
I don't feel that way, either, and I don't think I said I did?

What I DO think is that people should ask themselves what their motivation truly is for thinking certification should be a requirement and whether it's based on making service dog handlers' lives easier, in response to actual problems, or because of some sense of personal outrage that someone is doing something they shouldn't.
I didn't say you did? Sorry if you thought that was implied, it wasn't meant to be.
 

MicksMom

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#72

#2- if I can follow the rules/laws with my well behaved, trained non service dog, so can everyone else.
And this is my point. How does the rare person not following the rules substantively affect you, other than that they're getting away with something you're not?
You're right, it doesn't affect me, but I'm still allowed to be p*ssed off when it happens.
 

RetrieverFever

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#73
I haven't read through all the comments, but I thank anyone giving the benefit of the doubt to the owners and dogs. I've flown with my service dog 11 times, and let me tell you, he still absolutely hates it! He's as close to bombproof as it gets everywhere else, but something about the altitude changing sends him into hysterics. I'm not taking about something disruptive, but clear signs that he's in distress (stress panting, stress drooling, sometimes whimpering, shaking all over). While doesn't seem very "service dog" at all when the trained eye sees him. In the airport after we get off the plane he is almost always frantic and wants to approach and greet everyone in the waiting area (which I don't allow, but he tries hard!) honestly flying with him is so nerve racking, especially considering he's my PSD and is unable to help much when he's stressed out like that. It's unfortunate, but I can't travel without him or I'd be without him at my destination.
We're a perfectly legitimate team but that is his cyptonite.
There is also the perspective that it could be ESAs the OP encountered, which almost always behave like little shits because they aren't often held to the same standard a service dog handler holds their dog to. It's also possible they were faking to fly their dog for free which is also common, but I've seen equally as disruptive ESAs as I have assumed fakers.
 
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#74
What I DO think is that people should ask themselves what their motivation truly is for thinking certification should be a requirement and whether it's based on making service dog handlers' lives easier, in response to actual problems, or because of some sense of personal outrage that someone is doing something they shouldn't.
Bingo.
 

Sekah

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#75
What I DO think is that people should ask themselves what their motivation truly is for thinking certification should be a requirement and whether it's based on making service dog handlers' lives easier, in response to actual problems, or because of some sense of personal outrage that someone is doing something they shouldn't.
I completely agree with this.
 
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#76
Wait, now I'm REALLY confused. So how would certification have stopped this situation?
I mean an actual nationally recognized, REAL, ID card would have stopped this, either you have the real id for your dog, or you leave. There are no questions about what your dog does for you to make it a service dog, it has an id, that is nationally recognized, or it leaves. Those are the options, and yes it does work in other countries.
 

Julee

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#77
I mean an actual nationally recognized, REAL, ID card would have stopped this, either you have the real id for your dog, or you leave. There are no questions about what your dog does for you to make it a service dog, it has an id, that is nationally recognized, or it leaves. Those are the options, and yes it does work in other countries.
No, it doesn't, because business owners in the US do not care to educate their employees on anything regarding service animals, much less which IDs would be real or fake. I know plenty of people in other countries that still get access challenges, even with their legitimate IDs/certifications/what have you.
 

RBark

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#80
They can, but they can also call the cops and have their assistance. So what it really comes down to is shop owners are lazy in the states...
To be honest, I'm not sure how you can come to this conclusion and at the same time be totally ignoring what I am saying.

Yes the problem is that the business owners are too lazy and cheap to educate their employees.

That IS the problem. Certification laws would NOT stop it.

Enforcing laws and rights that businesses already have against fake SD owners would stop it.

Why do you keep saying that certification would stop this, then say that it would not stop it, then say that certification needs to happen? You think certification should be a new law so that it stops.... nothing? What exactly is your thought process here?

If business owners were not lazy and cheap, certification would not be needed to stop fakers.

So again.. the problem is not lack of certification. You said that so yourself. The problem is..... lack of enforcement.

Which I've mentioned about a dozen times already. And you appear to agree with, even though you keep for some reason arguing otherwise even though you know that it would not help. :confused::confused:

In the USA, if a faker SD tries to access a public building and gets asked to leave, and doesn't... the business can call the police to arrest the fakers.

This doesn't happen.... because businesses are ignorant.
 

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