Returned from vet.. also question about weight.

[drmom777]

My biggest recent concern about declawing was when we got our most recent addition to the cat family, Tesla. Our three existing cats were all declawed, we adopted them that way, and I was afraid that Tesla would have a tremendous unfair advantage over the others.

They have been totally fine. Tesla keeps his claws in when he interacts with the other three cats. I guess there is some code of fairness in cat wrestling.

 

[smkie]

Wow what a thread to read first thing in the morning. Sighs. I have clipped kittens claws, and cats claws all my life. IT is about the easiest thing to do. Don't hold the foot firm, insert one finger and left the toe gently. Never had a cat fight me about it. If you start as a kitten nothing could be easier. Now since this thread is 99.9999 percent about cats I am going to move it to the cat part of the forum.

 

[Saintgirl]

Well, being a Saint Bernard fancier and owner I wanted to chime with my own expertise in the matter. Saint Bernards DO drool. There is no such thing as a well bred Saint that does not drool.

New To Saints - Introduction

Sure, some drool more than others, but Saints are not a dry mouthed breed. This does not mean that you will never encounter a Saint that does not drool because I'm sure that they are out there, but by breed standard the mouth and lip do not accomodate a dry mouth. There are some 'breeders' who claim that they breed a dry mouthed Saint, but they are far from responsible or ethical breeders.

As to the activity level of a Saint they are not a high level activity dog, but keep in mind that this does not mean that they are all lazy beasts because this is far from the truth. Saints can be used in agility, as service dogs, and great hiking companions. They are used on a regualr basis as draft dogs and excell in draft competitions. Typically a Saint can perform when you want them to and be calm and relaxed in the house. No, they are not the ideal jogging companion or high speed fly ball dog but they are not a lump on the couch either. And it has already been pointed out, a Saint without an outlet for their energy can become very destructive. Just image 180lbs bored chewing on the couch.

I am not a member of the other forum, so I do not know what was said about my heart breed, but just because a dog can weigh 180lbs and they drool does not mean that they can't make the best companion out there- for the right kind of person. I could care less that my dog drools, I love that he is big, he fits my lifestyle. I certainly wouldn't do well with a maltese/poodle cross for example because it does not suit my lifestyle. This is the joy of dogs- a variety of breeds that can suit different demands and desires.

 

[sillysally]

Lots of people who are so against declawing, let their cats outside, getting hit by a car or killed by another animal is more painful then being declawed.

I won't likely declaw our next cat, and I am very against outdoor cats in anything other than a rural setting. I have had two dogs altered and two cats declawed and I can tell you that the difference in how much pain they were in post op was massive. The dogs bounced back right away--both were rip-roarin-ready-to-go the same day we picked them up. WE had to MAKE them stay quiet because they wanted to return to normal activity levels immediately. Both cats took forever to recover and were in obvious pain.

I'd also like to point out that unless the cat is declawed all around then it can still scratch and bite you VERY effectively. The WORST scratches and the worst bite I've even gotten from a cat came from declawed cats. Often the ones iwth claws left in the back become kickers. My mom's cat, who is declawed all around, bit me once on the thumb so aggressively that blood spurted up my arm and my thumb swelled to twice its normal size.

I do agree that it's better than the cat being euthed, and would rather see a cat be declaewd and find a home than not. However, I don't know that "better than death" is necessarily where the standard of animal care should be set.

 

[Crush]

Lots of people who are so against declawing, let their cats outside, getting hit by a car or killed by another animal is more painful then being declawed.

I dont know why people cant just let people do as they want with their own animals.

I would rather a cat be out of a shelter, in a loving home, living a long life DECLAWED then sitting in a cage at the shelter or more likely heading to the "back room" where so many cats end up.

Yeah I totally agree.

My wife and I both have cuts from the cat getting clawed during baths, holding, etc.

It's also funny how these cat owners will allow the to have it's testicles cut off or be spayed. Yet with decalwing, they say 'that must hurt the cat'. It's so hypocritical and it's very, very unfortunate that such a small group of people can be so influential on politicians.

If anything, they should make declawing manditory so there aren't so many returned to the shelter.

And yeah I agree... why wouldn't these same people endourse indoor only cats?

It's just so hypocritical.

 

[Crush]

I dont understand declawing for the simple fact that it is very easy to just trim their nails! and it is cheaper than declaw that's for sure.

My cat will not allow us to trim his nails. We don't want to get scratched trying to foce him.

 

[Crush]

Like I said, they day I'll put myself through ten amputations is the day I'd get a cat declawed.
:

That's the problem. The cat isn't human.

Now what about cutting your testicles off?

Can I say the day you could cut your testicles off is the day you would declaw? Do you see how hypocritical you being?

Also about the debarking.

While I have no plans for debarking, there is a good chance that if the debarking is not done, he'll end up at a shelter. If someoen is going to spend all the money to debark their dog, they obviously want the dog but can't put up with the barking at night or whatever the issue may have with the barking. They also may have chosen the wrong breed. Debarking is a quick solution for many families (and neigbours!). Not everyone is going to spend the time required to give to the dog. If they don't do it with their own kids, what makes you think they are going to do it with their dogs? Either that or having them back at the shelter.

Actually I'll go this far. Imagine all dogs were de-toothed, de-clawed, de-barked, and de-drooled (if that existed).

Now tell me how dogs would be coming back to the shelters. Exactly.

You shouldn't be telling me how to do deal with my own pet. I'm sorry such a small group have lobbied politicians and spread mis-information on the internet on such a small, unimportant issue in life. Out of ALL things to get organized on and loby to the gov't you pick my cats claws???????

:dunno:

 

[Crush]

It wasn't too long ago you accused all of us of hating little dogs.

Actually that is true.

When I told people I wanted a Bichon/Matlese/Havenese/Miniature or Toy Poodle almost everyone said 'you dont want that.. that's not a real dog'.

And on the other forum people were honest enough to admit that they didn't like smaller dogs when the topic came up. I have no teacup by any means, but I was accused of having a fufu dog on the other forum and on youtube and yes I do feel that my dog is not taken as seriously as a larger dog.

At the vet everyone came over to look at him though and ask questions. But those were mainstream dog owners, not forum enthusiests.

 

[drmom777]

Just a quick question, and only to satisfy my curiosity. If you do not like forum enthusiasts, why do you frequent dog forums?

Usually people come here because they are dog enthusasts, or because they need advice on a dog issue. I don't think you fit into either category.

 

[Crush]

Well, being a Saint Bernard fancier and owner I wanted to chime with my own expertise in the matter. Saint Bernards DO drool. There is no such thing as a well bred Saint that does not drool.

Thank you.

Claiming St's do not drool and are very active (ie a jogging companion etc) is just being disingenious and ensuring that another dog get given to the shelter.

While you might have no qalms about wiping drool and water off the floors, most potential dog owners would not stand for that in their house. Thus they should be properly made aware of these things before they get the dog or it will end up at the shelter.

Actually, on cesar milan's video they showcase that rescue where at any time they have 100 (!) dogs up for addoption. Why? becuase the cute wiener dog they are used to off TV loses it's puppy cuteness, sheds like crazy, and DROOLS. So it has a huge rate of being given up.

 

[Crush]

I won't likely declaw our next cat, and I am very against outdoor cats in anything other than a rural setting..

They why don't you guys lobby the gov't over this? As many cats get lost, go stray, and create kittens which is a real problem.

My cats getting declawed in my own hom (to protect my dog) is not a real problem.

They hypocracy on this topic has been amazing.

And for what it's worth, the cat here on the bed really wants to get down and go about his day in the house. He's licking the inside of his cone.. i guess he has an instinct to clean himself and doesn't realize he's not doing it.

 

[copperdogsmom]

[

If your cat WOULD slip outside, which DOES happen with indoor cats, you've taken away their main defense. Leaving them vulnerable to any and all attacks they might face.[/QUOTE]

OK Personally I wouldn't declaw.Thats me I have no problem clipping claws.
My mom got her cat declawed as a kitten because any kind of scratch on her takes weeks to heal.He never went outside seemed scared of the door being open so she thought ok he would be in the house.They ended up doing work on the house and had to leave the door open alot well the cat went out.Now it is hard to keep him in during the day.I have seen him fight Cats fight with the back feet primely and I have seen him jump fences and get in trees.So I don't believe its the main defense.Do i believe you should let declawed cats out hell no but it does seem to be working for Captain Moe.Hes not a young cat anymore either and hes been going out for years.He also has no signs of arthritis from it either.Not saying it cant happen but we have been lucky with him.

 

[Crush]

Just a quick question, and only to satisfy my curiosity. If you do not like forum enthusiasts, why do you frequent dog forums?.

Because I'm a forum person and have been on the Internet since the beginning. I'm a member of dozens of forums on various topics.

The dog forums I would say have the most 'extreme' viewpoints and groups of bullies who will ask moderators to ban you if you dont' agree with your own personal viewpoints (like declawing).

Coming here is like going to a forum on Window renovations and having the majority of posters being environmentalists so the viewpoint is always slanted to one side.

This is a big problem on this forum (and the other) and probably scares a lot of people from joining. 30% of all households in the US have a dog if I remember correctly. This forum should be BOOMING and worth millions of dollars of advertising revenue. But it's honestly like a 'windows' forum being hijacked by environmentalists so people will not use it.

Yeah Environmentalists all have windows in their homes, but you will surely get a slanted viewpoint that does not represent the mainstream buying public.

Forum hijacking is common and any forum can be hijacked. A group of bullies who are usually the most loyal to the forum will have an extreme viewpoint. Like environmentalists giving advice on windows. People in order to 'fit in' will support the senior group of posters. When someone obects or disagrees, eventually the senior posters will pm the moderators asking them to bad and censor those who don't agree. This is where the bullying starts. And the bullying is actually on the moderators and site owners. So the group of bullies take over the forum with their minority viewpoint, and thus, the forum fails in posts and numbers.

This is not a problem only on the dog forums, but many other forums where if you don't believe in what the bullies want you to, you will be ridiculed, insulted, and then banned.

That is what is happening on all the pet forums unfortunately. Lurkers will not join becuase they know when both sides are not being properly represented and it is a turn off for most mainstreme audience.

I just represent the other side of the argument. The mainstream pet owner who is the majority. The guy who will get his cat declawed. The normal person with no special interest.

 

[drmom777]

OK, I understand your viewpoint, I think. Thanks for the explanation. What I don't understand it what the gain is for you in doing this. Since I doubt Meaty Treats is paying you for your services, I can't help but wonder. Unless you like to think of yourself as a sort of white knight saving pet forums.

 

[sillysally]

They why don't you guys lobby the gov't over this? As many cats get lost, go stray, and create kittens which is a real problem.

My cats getting declawed in my own hom (to protect my dog) is not a real problem.

They hypocracy on this topic has been amazing.

My community, as do many others, already has laws stating that pets should not be running at large.

I'm sure how my post demonstrated hypocrisy--do you even understand what hypocrisy is? Did you even read my post (the forum thing works best when you actually read the posts)?

If you want to declaw your cat, knock yourself out. I stated that *I* would likely not declaw my next cat for a number of reasons.

 

[Linds]

Can I ask why declawing was a better option than trimming the nails or those gel caps? And saying your cat doesn't want it's nails clipped doesn't work, there are lots of ways to work with a cat to get him/her to accept or at least tolerate getting their nails clipped.

I am all for doing as you will with your own pet but the level of ignorance you are showing is absolutely astounding

 

[sillysally]

OK, I understand your viewpoint, I think. Thanks for the explanation. What I don't understand it what the gain is for you in doing this. Since I doubt Meaty Treats is paying you for your services, I can't help but wonder.

I'll take a stab at it--

-to stir the pot
-boredom
-to emphasize how normal he is and how weird we are. Well, you missed the boat as that one as far as I'm concerned. I cannot think of anything more dull than being "normal." I enjoy the fact that animals are of special interest to me and don't really care if that is not normal or if it bothers people.

 

[copperdogsmom]

Oh and I forgot to add that My mother does have all ten fingers amputated at her first digits also her legs are amputated and she still would still declaw a cat.

 

[Doberluv]

I wonder how differently this thread would have gone, had there not been the bridging of other forums with this one. That is just wrong to drag stuff from there to here and not even give a person a chance. The baiting, jabbing and just plain stirring up a wasp's nest with no provocation from this poster, originally, is so unattractive. Just because someone may have been a troll somewhere else or caused trouble should not be the sole cause for these attacks. How can anyone ever stand a chance of just coming on a new forum and starting fresh? How does anyone here know for a fact, what the intentions are of a new member? It is so unfair to jump all over someone for what they did somewhere else and not let the person have a fair shake at a new place.

Declawing or drooling. Who cares? It's fine to disagree. It's normal and part of what a forum includes. But this mob mentality linching, accusing, baiting before the fact is just appalling to me.

Why not let a person have a fair chance at joining in our forum and refrain from this baiting until AFTER it is shown positively, that the person is only here to spam or troll?

 

[Jules]

Because I'm a forum person and have been on the Internet since the beginning. I'm a member of dozens of forums on various topics.

The dog forums I would say have the most 'extreme' viewpoints and groups of bullies who will ask moderators to ban you if you dont' agree with your own personal viewpoints (like declawing).

Coming here is like going to a forum on Window renovations and having the majority of posters being environmentalists so the viewpoint is always slanted to one side.

This is a big problem on this forum (and the other) and probably scares a lot of people from joining. 30% of all households in the US have a dog if I remember correctly. This forum should be BOOMING and worth millions of dollars of advertising revenue. But it's honestly like a 'windows' forum being hijacked by environmentalists so people will not use it.

Yeah Environmentalists all have windows in their homes, but you will surely get a slanted viewpoint that does not represent the mainstream buying public.

Forum hijacking is common and any forum can be hijacked. A group of bullies who are usually the most loyal to the forum will have an extreme viewpoint. Like environmentalists giving advice on windows. People in order to 'fit in' will support the senior group of posters. When someone obects or disagrees, eventually the senior posters will pm the moderators asking them to bad and censor those who don't agree. This is where the bullying starts. And the bullying is actually on the moderators and site owners. So the group of bullies take over the forum with their minority viewpoint, and thus, the forum fails in posts and numbers.

This is not a problem only on the dog forums, but many other forums where if you don't believe in what the bullies want you to, you will be ridiculed, insulted, and then banned.

That is what is happening on all the pet forums unfortunately. Lurkers will not join becuase they know when both sides are not being properly represented and it is a turn off for most mainstreme audience.

I just represent the other side of the argument. The mainstream pet owner who is the majority. The guy who will get his cat declawed. The normal person with no special interest.

See... and members here are trying to welcome "mainstream" pet owners like you call your self with open arms. Sure, some may show impatience and might react a bit snarky to ignorant statements, but that is only because they care. Once you see through that, you should see that members are trying to tell about things you don't know and educate you. See, when I joined here, I knew squat about dog nutrition. I sighed every time my dog broke out in hives and wondered why stools were never firm. Next thing you know, I learned here about different foods and figured out that my dog has a very low tolerance for grains. We had her on a better quality food with some grains and now she's on grain-free food. I could have chosen to ignore the advice, but why would I? And why should you?

For example, your dog. Now as it is, you are part of "the problem". Having gone to a BYB and paying close to 375 bucks for a cute mutt- a mutt you could have probably found in a shelter. BYB are part of the problem: pet overpopulation, inbreeding, etc. I take it that someone already explained to you the differences between an ethical breeder and a BYB as you were able to pinpoint that your dog was from a BYB. And that's okay, nobody here will put a scarlet letter on you or your dog because of it. Many members here have dogs from BYBs because they didn't know better. But now they do, and that makes all the difference.

We have a lot of discussions and disagreements on this forum. We can even see it in this thread. And that is good and healthy for a forum. We had long-time members leave because they weren't happy with how this forum was run and because they couldn't accept the decision of the mods in some instances. As you can see, not the "old time" member runs the show; even they get banned if they break the rules too many times.

I guess it comes down to this: are you willing to learn or do you prefer to be stubborn and stay part of the problem? And I guess that will be your make or breaker on this forum. There are tons of "mainstream" pet owner who don't know better- but they are willing to be educated and change their way of thinking. It's one person at a time, but it is still progress. It has nothing to do with having "no special interest". It is about the welfare (yes, I mean welfare and not rights!) of our pets and pets around the nation.