Question (Morals)

jess2416

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That's exactly it, Caren . . . Fear is an extremely powerful motivating force.

I find it interesting that the Bible never really defines Hell.
I really don't think it's "Hell" a la Inferno, personally, but that is what many people imagine and it scares them into believing. I'm not saying that's why ALL people believe, but it's the case with a lot of people I know . . .

Could it be that the "lake of fire" mentioned in the Bible is simply symbolic, as is much of the text?

I guess that's a little off track, but even after accepting God into my life, I have trouble with believing some of these things.
Thread hijack for a sec...
Thats exaclty why I dont believe there is a *burning* lake of fire hell..

now back to subject...:lol-sign:
 

M&M's Mommy

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Did he save his for you?

I wonder how many men save theirs - seems it is only important to women.

Not to me, mines gone, and I am glad.

Sexual chemistry is important to a relationship. Not the only important thing, but a factor that bears great influence.

And also - how does that prove how much you love someone? To me, being faithful, loyal and loving says more than who I was with before.

If anything, taking the time to find the RIGHT partner is more important.

You learn an AWFUL lot about yourself being with other people, and you learn what you want.

To coin a phrase - you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it first ;)

And before anyone says anything - sex is not what makes for a good relationship - but it helps!! And why shouldn't we want to have a fulfilling sex life as well as a fulfilling partnership? All one and the same.
He DID save his for me. I'm one of the very lucky ones whose bf/husband also a true believer of sexual abstinence until marriage.

As for comparing our bodies to ... cars (or clothings, or anything that may require to be tried before being PURCHASED!) - I won't. I believe as human being, we were created in the image of God, and that our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. We have to respect our bodies, and everyone else's body as we respect God's.

While sexual intimacy is an important part of marriage, it's not the only part. I've known a few couples whose one or the other partner has had some type of accidents/illness which resulted in the inability to have sex. Their marriage are still going very strong. Theirs are the type of marriages I want mine to be. One that's build on faith, true love, and deep devotion..

For those who decide to save sex for marriage, check this out http://www.lifeway.com/tlw/ - and know that you're not alone in your quest.

God bless!
 

jess2416

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TRUE LOVE WAITS
I dont like the title of the program personally

IMO it gives the impression that only if you are married you are truely in love..

Why cant you be in love and not married, what the difference..

Marriage is NOT about a certificate, its about a union...you can be a union with out a marriage certificate.....
 
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He DID save his for me. I'm one of the very lucky ones whose bf/husband also a true believer of sexual abstinence until marriage.

As for comparing our bodies to ... cars (or clothings, or anything that may require to be tried before being PURCHASED!) - I won't. I believe as human being, we were created in the image of God, and that our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. We have to respect our bodies, and everyone else's body as we respect God's.

While sexual intimacy is an important part of marriage, it's not the only part. I've known a few couples whose one or the other partner has had some type of accidents/illness which resulted in the inability to have sex. Their marriage are still going very strong. Theirs are the type of marriages I want mine to be. One that's build on faith, true love, and deep devotion..

For those who decide to save sex for marriage, check this out http://www.lifeway.com/tlw/ - and know that you're not alone in your quest.

God bless!
I'm very inspired by you and your finance waiting until your married. I wish that I would have been mature enough to do that, and admire people who are willing to abstain.:)
 

M&M's Mommy

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I'm sure I'm going to offend someone........but marriage is a longgggggggg time. I would nevahhhh go into it without trying the merchandise.
This is a pretty scary thought in my opinion. Why on earth do you compare yourself to just a ... merchandise??

I think this is the problem with youths nowaday. They don't see the true value of their bodies. They see it as something that could be "used" for pleasure, "abused" whichever way they choose (in almost every cases, the arguement is "it's my body, I can do whatever i want with it").

It's just so sad.
 

M&M's Mommy

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I dont like the title of the program personally

IMO it gives the impression that only if you are married you are truely in love..

Why cant you be in love and not married, what the difference..

Marriage is NOT about a certificate, its about a union...you can be a union with out a marriage certificate.....
Of course marriage is not just a certificate!! It is a sacret vow made by two people before God and others. It makes the relationship official, it's ..

Geez (this is one of those times when I feel helpless when my English is not enough for me to express my thoughts!!) Wish I could explain it in my own language and be understood :lol-sign:
 

Zoom

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For centuries, women were treated as nothing more than merchandise, and as they had no say over their bodies then, and variations on those thoughts are still floating around, why is it so hard to believe that some just do not take various physical act/aspects seriously?

If we are to start taking the Bible literally, then Tessa, I really hope you don't enjoy talking in church or witnessing to others in youth group, because according to Issac, that is really very wrong and you need to shut your mouth before you offend God.

:rolleyes: How far do y'all think things like that fly with our discrimination laws being what they are? Although some Baptist church did just fire some lady who had been employed by the church for almost 40 years on the basis of that verse...

M&M: So what about those people who do not believe in God? Does that make their marriage somehow less valid, less sacred to them?

(I'm just picking at you guys to see your reponses, BTW... :) )
 

jess2416

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So to have your marriage official it has to be a sacred vow before God ?? I am just trying to understand

Edit: :lol-sign: @ Zoom we basically said the same thing
 

M&M's Mommy

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For centuries, women were treated as nothing more than merchandise, and as they had no say over their bodies then, and variations on those thoughts are still floating around, why is it so hard to believe that some just do not take various physical act/aspects seriously?

M&M: So what about those people who do not believe in God? Does that make their marriage somehow less valid, less sacred to them?

(I'm just picking at you guys to see your reponses, BTW... :) )
Hehe.. Ok, let's me try my best to put into English words what I thougth..

What about those who do not believe in God? - NO, it does not make their marriage any less valid (actually as strict as the Catholic church, She accepts all marriages from other churches/no church as valid - and if the person who's been married elsewhere wanted to remarry in the church - he/she will need to obtain an annulment from the first marriage before the second one can take place. That's how valid we think of it!!!)

BUT, if you're Christian, specially Catholic, "we believe that in the sacrament of marriage, when a baptized Christian man exchanges vows with a baptized Christian woman. Before Almighty God, they promise to each other a love that is faithful, permanent, exclusive, self-sacrificing and life-giving. Through marriage, a couple now enters into a new public state of life both in the eyes of the Church and society; therefore, the celebration of the marriage rightfully ought to be public with the vows exchanged before a priest (or other authorized witness of the Church), the witnesses (usually the best man and maid of honor), and the faithful gathered for the ceremony. (Cf. Catechism, No. 1663.) Marriage makes a relationship divine. Getting married means that something bigger than both of you is bringing you together. A wedding achieves something that simply can't happen otherwise. God is introduced into the relationship. Only after the wedding is your love blessed with the divine imprint of eternity.

(*Note: I don't know how to express it better, so I took the excerp above out from the web)

Why do you think so many people oppose to the idea of marriage?? I think because they like the idea of having everything that marriage offers, with sexual intimacy being at top of the list, if not the only one - but do not have to worry about a lifelong commitment, the "in sickness or in health, till death do us part" part?? - Without the validity of a marriage, one can easily get out if thing doesn't work out, right?. That's why I belive all true love should result in marriage. it gives you the reassurance that the other person love you enough to make a lifelong commitment to you.
 
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Martine

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This has been and interesting thread - I've been away too long and missed the meaty discussions!! For me sex is not just about the body - it's all about the mind too - and I wanted to be sure I could share both physical and mental intimacy with someone on a really deep level before I agreed to darn their socks (yeah right!). I can't see that as a sin, however I can see one of the earlier arguments that maybe it was classed as sin to control STD's, pregnancy etc. Like it has been said before - I see much of religion as control - whether it be modern day or ancient. Control isn't always a bad thing - society needs a mechanism to do that - but too often in religion it is one party controlling another - i.e. patriarchy - that's just way too human for me!
 

bubbatd

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Hmmmm .... " try the merchandise first " ??? No marriage should be based on sex. Believe me , there's more to a union of minds and souls .
 

filarotten

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Hmmmm .... " try the merchandise first " ??? No marriage should be based on sex. Believe me , there's more to a union of minds and souls .

Grammy, if you have great sex in a loving permanent or hopefully permanent relationship...it does have a union of the mind and soul, as well as the body. It really doesn't get much better than that. Not to mention...it is fun.

No sex is not the sole basis for a marriage, but I have to say it is a good 50% of a good stable happy relationship.

I waited with my first marriage. Lousy sex, horrible lover, nice guy, good provider, but lousy in bed. All I could think of...and I waited for this?

I'm still not sure how I ever got pregnant. Maybe it was immaculate conception. :lol-sign: It was a rare occasion when sex occured. I wasn't going through that again.
 
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tessa_s212

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If we are to start taking the Bible literally, then Tessa, I really hope you don't enjoy talking in church or witnessing to others in youth group, because according to Issac, that is really very wrong and you need to shut your mouth before you offend God.
Zoom, I expected better from you. I'd like to state that I am offended that you'd have the nerve to tell me in such a rude way to "shut my mouth".

Either way, I see that my voice is not appreciated in this thread. Have a good one everyone. :)
 

Zoom

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Tess, I didn't mean "shut your mouth" like it came across, but that is how the verse reads. See what happens when things are read literally? ;) ;)

I'm sorry I offended you, it wasn't intended that way!
 

RD

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Tessa, your voice IS appreciated in this thread. You obviously know more about Christianity than me and I'm interested in what you have to say.

So, answer me this - do you believe that there is a burning lake of fire that the souls of the unbelievers will be cast into? Literally? If so, why? It's true that the Bible says so, but the Bible is loaded with symbolism . . . Why do people choose to take that description so literally?

Believe me, the last thing I am trying to do is belittle anyone's beliefs. I just want to learn more from people whose perspectives I can understand.
 
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tessa_s212

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Tessa, your voice IS appreciated in this thread. You obviously know more about Christianity than me and I'm interested in what you have to say.

So, answer me this - do you believe that there is a burning lake of fire that the souls of the unbelievers will be cast into? Literally? If so, why? It's true that the Bible says so, but the Bible is loaded with symbolism . . . Why do people choose to take that description so literally?

Believe me, the last thing I am trying to do is belittle anyone's beliefs. I just want to learn more from people whose perspectives I can understand.
This is the way I have been explained.

Now, I'll use the same scenario as I did before. You have commited a horrible crime. Lets say, murder. You have murdered someone, and you are on trial. By the time the trial comes around, it has been a few years since the murder. You feel guilty and remorseful for what you've done. But just because you say "sorry" should the judge just let you out of your punishment. Should be there no consequence for your actions? Of course not. If he we to let you go without consequence he would not be a just judge. God is merciful, but he is also just.

If you have sinned, you will be punished. Unless, of course, you accept that gift which pays your fine.

Now, as for whether or not it is a burning pit.. that I cannot tell you. I have never been there, and will never be there. I can only go by what the Bible tells me.
 

Sunnypup

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Edit on my part, the verse I am thinking of is in I Corinthians 14:34-35
was gonna bow out but can't bite my tongue here...must raise another debatable topic...that verse applies IF you believe we are in pre-apoclyptic times...if you believe we are living in the end times Revelations tells all new rules regarding leadership roles in the church, and what will be revealed through the most unlikely of hosts. . . just like when Jesus stepped in and changed a bunch of the old testament rules on the church of the day...when it's near the time of His return He does it again... However back to the topic at hand, the reasons I outlined roughly 8 pages ago where the ones that say why CHRISTIANS are told to abstain until marriage. That indeed was the question posed. If you don't have a strict moral/religious code then it's up to you what you do, if there is no God then who are you accountable to but yourself, so just do what you want...you're going to anyway. We'll see who's right and who's wrong one day. It won't matter to me if I'm wrong ,where will I go, but back to dust.What will it mean to you if you're wrong?
(opens can of worms and ducks out...)
 

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