Question for Gun Folks...

sillysally

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#1
There has been a lot of talk lately about banning "assault weapons." I know very little about guns and I realized today that I have not idea what these weapons are so I figured I'd educate myself.

What exactly is an assault weapon and why is it considered so much more dangerous than a garden variety (for lack of a better term) weapon?
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#3
The term is referring to any automatic or semiautomatic weapon with a cartridge allowing for the extreme number of rounds in a lesser amount of time. Basically an effort to lessen potential damage prior to an interruption.
 

Shai

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#4
What’s a semi-automatic? What counts as an assault weapon?

By Mark Joseph Stern

Following Friday’s tragic mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., semi-automatic guns and assault weapons have been thrust into the public spotlight. Politicians are discussing the merits of a renewed assault weapon bans, while police and reporters are investigating the weapons used by Adam Lanza on his rampage. But the terms used by the media are often confusing and imprecise, and few reporters explain the differences among various types of firearms. Below is a glossary of gun terms that are relevant in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting.

Assault weapons: There is little agreement on what constitutes an assault weapon, even among firearm enthusiasts. Legal definitions vary from state to state: Connecticut defines an assault weapon as “any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semi-automatic, or burst fire at the options of the user.†In Virginia, any gun with a magazine capacity greater than 20 rounds counts. The now-expired Federal Assault Weapon Ban, passed in 1994, laid out complex guidelines to define which firearms were considered assault weapons. (Most were AR-15s and AK-47s.) The federal definition of an assault weapon expired with that law in 2004.


However, most gun experts agree that fully automatic firearms (defined below) count as assault weapons, as do some higher-caliber semi-automatic guns.

Semi-automatic: Almost all guns in the United States today, including pistols, rifles, and handguns, are semi-automatic. A semi-automatic firearm fires a single bullet each time the trigger is pulled. The weapon can be loaded with magazines containing various numbers of bullets; the semi-automatic handgun used in the Fort Hood shooting, for instance, was equipped to shoot 20 rounds of bullets in 5.3 seconds. Different grips and mounts can modify the power and accuracy of a semi-automatic gun; Congress attempted to limit such add-ons in the 1994 ban.

Automatic: An automatic weapon fires bullets as long as its trigger is squeezed. Well-known examples include machine guns, which are automatic firearms mounted to a wall or rail in order to increase stability and accuracy, and submachine guns, which are portable. Automatic weapons vary in legality across the United States; they are regulated by the federal government but are legal to own.

Handgun: The only universally agreed-upon definition of a handgun is a gun that can be held it in a single hand. According to a gun expert at NOVA Firearms, a firearms dealer in Northern Virginia, no handguns would ever be considered an assault weapon. Most are semi-automatic, but some handguns do qualify as automatic weapons, able to shoot many rounds of bullets at once. A common type of handgun is a pistol, a small firearm with a single, nonrevolving chamber. The gun Jared Lee Loughner used to shoot Gabrielle Giffords and kill six people in Tucson, Ariz., a Glock 19, was a semi-automatic pistol.

Revolver: A firearm with a revolving cylinder that can fire several bullets (usually six) at a time without reloading. Each time the hammer is cocked, the cylinder moves the next bullet into place. Most remaining “cock and fire†guns—those for which the gun must be cocked each time it is fired—are revolvers. Cock and fire revolvers are called “single action†revolvers. No revolvers are semi-automatic.

Rifle: Firearms with a groove carved into the barrel walls to give bullets spin. (This is why rifles often have long barrels: to give spin to bullets.) Rifles can be single action, semi-automatic, or fully automatic.

AR-15: The semi-automatic rifle Adam Lanza used as his primary weapon. Lanza’s specific model was a Bushmaster M4 Type Carbine, using several magazines of 30 bullets each. His mother, Nancy Lanza, acquired the gun legally. Certain models were proscribed under the 2004 ban, but myriad loopholes allowed slightly modified versions of the gun to be sold legally. In the Aurora shooting, James Holmes used an AR-15 which he had purchased legally on the Internet but for which he had not acquired a permit in Colorado.



http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ns_of_firearm_lingo_and_types_of_weapons.html
 
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#5
But, as the federal Assault weapon ban was written, it mostly applied to cosmetic features.

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).
Folding stock might make it a bit shorter, so why not just mandate a minimum length?
Bayonet mount? Not that important either way.
Flash suppressor? Ok, but why not just ban suppressors rather than banning a barrel with threads?
Pistol Grip? Its a way to hold the gun.
Rifled grenade launcher? Anything explosive is already banned as a destructive device.

A number of rifles were made legal for sale by filing off a piece of metal that was where you mounted a bayonet.

In the picture above, those ARE NOT assault weapons. Those are assault rifles (The AK47 and M16A4 at least.) Those have fully automatic or burst mode firing (ie 3 shots per trigger pulll). Those are already banned (mostly, or very expensive and highly regulated for some older types).

The last federal assault weapon ban did not mandate anything to do with how the gun fired. The Bushmaster that was used in CT was semi automatic. You can get semi automatic guns without any of the features above and would not be subject to the ban, and would fire just as fast.

Some countries do ban all semi automatic weapons, but here we already have millions of them in circulation from pistols, rifles, shotguns and even .22 rifles.
 

Shai

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#7
Really? Because these are the legally purchased guns used in the Aurora shooting:


The AR-15 is an assault rifle.
From a friend of mine who, shall we say, knows his way around guns.

"Contrary to media reporting, the AR15s used in the recent mass shootings were not of military quality. They looked like M4s/M16s to be sure, but the AR specifically refers to the civilian-branded versions of a modular rifle. There are a number of important differences. Most ARs fire .223 caliber rounds whereas the military version fires 5.56mm. The rounds look the same, but there is a difference in pressure and stopping power (and the 5.56 already has not-so-great stopping power). Also, M4s and M16s are capable of burst/fully automatic fire depending on the version. AR15s are not."
 
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#8
Exactly.

The AR-15 is basically a semi automatic version of the M-16. It lacks the functions of a military weapon (burst mode). I don't particularly like them, its too much "playing army" for me, but the semi automatic versions aren't all that different than a hunting rifle.

As for the 870, that is a pump action shotgun. The black plastic can be replaced by wood, and not many people would be talking about banning them then.
 
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#9
870 wingmaster, one of my favorite guns :) Though I am looking to get a benelli soon. Have shot plenty of AR's and seriously, people get all juiced up about a look and know nothing of of the gun itself.
 

sillysally

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#10
Exactly.

The AR-15 is basically a semi automatic version of the M-16. It lacks the functions of a military weapon (burst mode). I don't particularly like them, its too much "playing army" for me, but the semi automatic versions aren't all that different than a hunting rifle.

As for the 870, that is a pump action shotgun. The black plastic can be replaced by wood, and not many people would be talking about banning them then.
So how many shells (shells, not bullets, right?) does one of those hold before you have to reload? Are those typically home defense or do people hunt with them?

Those guns pictured above do look scary speaking as someone who knows little about them. I can see how people could take one look at those and say "Yes! Ban them!"
 

CharlieDog

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#11
I would love to have an FN FAL in .308. I love them. I'd also like to have the Intervention, but that's only because it looks cool :p and I fully admit that, lol

I have an sks, but it holds 11 rounds. Used mainly for deer hunting. I'm not positive about the 870, but I want to say it holds 5+1 in the chamber. It might be 6+1. The mossberg I used to have held 5+1 though, and it's a similar shotgun. (And yes, it's shells, not bullets)
 
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#12
I never put in more than 3, we have to have a "plug" when hunting waterfowl and 3 is the max it can hold for that. I don't actually know what the "real" capacity is, probably 5 or 6?, but what's the difference?

Bullets don't go faster or slow down because of how the gun looks on the outside. They do look menacing, but it doesn't really matter. So they say you can only have a clip that holds 5 instead of 30, well, who's going to stop a complete nut job from carrying a couple extra clips?
 

CharlieDog

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#14
I never put in more than 3, we have to have a "plug" when hunting waterfowl and 3 is the max it can hold for that. I don't actually know what the "real" capacity is, probably 5 or 6?, but what's the difference?

Bullets don't go faster or slow down because of how the gun looks on the outside. They do look menacing, but it doesn't really matter. So they say you can only have a clip that holds 5 instead of 30, well, who's going to stop a complete nut job from carrying a couple extra clips?
Yes, when hunting there's something DH puts in the magazine. I think legally here 5 is the max allowed number of rounds in the gun. The sks we have *can* have a detachable magazine, but we don't have it.

For the .22 rifle we have, I can carry 250 rounds on my person easily. And though it's a .22, that many rounds can be devastating. Up to 50 can be on the rifle with the type of magazines we have, and they sell 100 round drums for it as well. It shoots as fast as you can pull the trigger (and not jam the gun) so what's to stop people from doing that?
 

CharlieDog

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#15
So why would there be talk of banning a gun that only holds 5 or 6 shells?
I have no idea. If they ban that one specifically, there's only about a hundred other kinds that do the same thing. Otherwise they're talking about banning the shotgun style gun itself, which is also crazy.
 
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#16
I think certain models can hold 10or 11. No even those wouldnt be banned, but the phrasing used made me think some people do consider them assault weapons. Mechanically though, its a duck gun.
 
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#17
In my mind it only classifies as an assault weapon when used unprovoked against another human being. That includes a single shot muzzle loading blunderbuss, scissors, or a nail file.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#18
I'll ask Denis but we have two clips for our .22 that look plenty menacing, I think they hold between 20-25 rounds. I'm pretty sure that's an aspect that is on the ban plan, of course if its like the ban Bush let expire it will only effect clips being made or sold after the ban date.

I asked and he said 50+1.
 
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