Puppy Snapping at and Biting People

[jason_els]

I'm not happy.

Both my pups are 4 months and I'm concerned about Tweeter.

Tweeter is the loudest and pushiest of the two. He instigates barking at unfamiliar things but acts fearful when I urge him to investigate the new things. He also does this with people who come to the house. He will bark and growl at new people. I do not inhibit the growling. The barking is more difficult.

What concerns me is that twice now, two different people have come to the house and Tweeter just wants to keep barking. I try to silence him by working with a, "quiet," command and it will work for a few seconds, but then he'll continue right on. I give the guests treats to give to the dogs and both puppies will tentatively hop forward, grab the treat, hop back, then continue barking as if the treat didn't mean anything. If a person reaches out and Tweeter doesn't realize the person has a treat or the person wants tries to pet him, Tweeter will give a quick growl and snap at the person. Today he bit a contractor working here at the house. Two weeks ago he snapped at a friend of mine who just barely got his hand away in time. I didn't see the second event as my head was turned away at the moment Tweeter did it. When he snapped at my friend I hesitated a few seconds out of complete shock and then told him,"No!," firmly and pushed him off the couch where he was sitting between me and my friend. I later thought that his behavior was explained by my friend's size, his quick hand movement, and the fact that my friend was sitting right next to Tweeter.

Today's event tells me that wasn't an isolated incident and Tweeter wasn't cornered in any way. The contractor had given Tweeter treats before and this time put out his hand to pet Tweeter and Tweeter just gave him a quick bite. I WISH I had seen it because it happened so quickly that I didn't know about it until a few minutes later when the contractor told me it happened. Rather than react to the bite or say anything to me, he stood-up and walked away from Tweeter. I thought nothing of it until the contractor said something.

Off the property, both dogs still get nervous around unfamiliar places and people. They don't, "warm-up," to people and even if they see someone a few times. I try to make sure everyone they meet gives them at least one treat but frequently the pups won't approach the person to take the treat and the person will tire of trying before the treat is taken.

I'm taking both of them to puppy socialization class. There Tweeter is a holy terror. He'll go to the center of the circle and bark at all the other dogs or run up to me and look for comfort then run back to the center to continue barking. In these situations I try to give him calming signals or just ignore him. It doesn't seem to work even though they're now on their third socialization class. The trainer says they want to play with the other dogs but don't know how to do it. The trainer who runs the class has urged me to keep them outside as much as possible to get used to the noises and sights of the outside world and I'm doing that. In class she handed Tweeter around the room to various people to hand him treats and he seemed ok, but when the one guy who was holding him moved his hand suddenly, Tweeter snapped at it even though he had been in the guy's lap for at least 5 minutes. This prompted some concern from the trainer.

Boomer is much more laid back. He'll bark a little but he doesn't bite and while he moves back from being touched, he's better at overcoming his fear. I let him mouth my hand but if he bits too hard I will withdraw my hand with a sharp, "OW!," make a displeased face, and then withold all attention or push him from his perch on the couch and then withold all attention. He NEVER growls at me, allows me to take away his food and treats, touch him anywhere, let's me bathe and groom him, and otherwise is very affectionate. If anything, around me, he's a total pussycat. I have no fear of him at all.

I want to enroll Tweeter in the training class as soon as it starts because this cannot continue. He still has his puppy teeth and I'm lucky that he can't do much harm yet, but when he gets older he'll be dangerous if he continues like this. I wish I knew how this happened as his brother is so mellow. Pumik are supposed to be alert watch dogs, but are known in Hungary as a town dog because while they're not necessarily friendly, they're not known to be aggressive either. The trainer is quite concerned about what kind of adult he will be and I am too.

Thanks again!

 

[Herschel]

Does Tweeter only have these types of reactions towards men?

 

[jason_els]

Does Tweeter only have these types of reactions towards men?

Good question. He will bark at people of both sexes and hesitates to approach anyone even if they have a treat, but so far, yes, it has only been men. The trainer is a woman and (fortunately) it was her husband whom Tweeter bit in puppy class. She held him and he didn't snap or growl at her.

He doesn't growl much before he bites. He'll growl then snap/bite immediately. It's very quick nearly without warning. I look for the signs but, again, twice he did it he was lying down and the third time I didn't see it happen so there was none of the classical forward leaning posture, stiff tail, wide eyes, hard grin. These seem to be nearly spontaneous.

 

[squirtsmom]

I'm sure someone here will give you a good answer. Dogs are different like people. Maybe there is s ome trigger that you are unaware of. Classes should help, I hope, good luck.

 

[Spiritus]

Raising two puppies at the same time is very difficult. Careful attention must be paid to spend individual time with each of them so that they don't bond to each other too strongly.

First of all, I would stop with all furniture privileges. No more getting on the furniture, period. Next, I would start a NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) program with Tweeter specifically (do a websearch on NILIF, lots of articles will come up). Thirdly, I highly recommend bringing in a behaviorist, someone who can watch the dogs interacting with you and with others, someone who uses positive reinforcement. From what you've described, Tweeter's issues are very serious, and need the help of a professional.

 

[Herschel]

Raising two puppies at the same time is very difficult. Careful attention must be paid to spend individual time with each of them so that they don't bond to each other too strongly.

First of all, I would stop with all furniture privileges. No more getting on the furniture, period. Next, I would start a NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) program with Tweeter specifically (do a websearch on NILIF, lots of articles will come up). Thirdly, I highly recommend bringing in a behaviorist, someone who can watch the dogs interacting with you and with others, someone who uses positive reinforcement. From what you've described, Tweeter's issues are very serious, and need the help of a professional.

NILIF may help, but I'm not sure if this is a dominant issue. It definitely is aggressive behavior, but the trigger may be fear (rather than dominance).

Does he cower or back away before biting? Does he snarl? Are his lips curled back showing his teeth? Does he ever do this to you?

What happens after the bite? Is he playful or is he still fearful?

This needs the help of a professional. Don't hesitate and call a licensed behaviorist today.

 

[Spiritus]

I'm thinking its partly a leadership issue, which is why I suggested NILIF. NILIF is not only for dominance issues and can be helpful in many things. It makes the dog more aware of his owner, and helps them realize that good things (food, the back yard, pets, etc.) come from people and don't just magically appear. It also helps the owner be more aware of the dog.

I don't think this is a dominance thing at all. I feel it is fear based. One way to start dealing with fear is teaching the animal that you will take care of scarey situations and that it is not up to the dog (particularly at four months of age) to determine what is a "scarey" situation.

I would not push strangers petting him at this point. I would work on attention and focus when around people he is worried about. Distract, draw his attention to you, treat, work on small behaviors he is confident with (sit, down, whatever), treat. Distract distract distract. Get his mind off what is worrying him.

 

[otch1]

Hello, Jason els! Although this doesn't suprise me, so sorry to hear you're having to deal with this. Much like the Puli, this breed needs a lot of socialization! This behavior is common. When I started the first one for a client wanting to show, we had this problem. Over time, it worsened. Having her on the table being examined by a judge was a real challenge and took a lot of work to get to that point. I had this owner in privates once a week, a group class once a week and she worked daily at socializing this pup. She had to seperate her from her other dog and spend a lot of one on one time with her. Being shown in comformation was helpful, as she had to learn to stand for exam, allow a stranger to open her mouth and examine teeth, handle her entire body and place hands over head and eye area. Reccommend you discuss this with your trainer. There may be a conformation trainer at the same school you're currently attending that you can do a private with. With that trainer, that's the focus of the class... getting your dog to accept and enjoy handling by a stranger, without resistance. In the meantime, taking this pup out daily is important. Reccommend you start using a Halti for training. Having control of the head is important and the sensation of the band on the bridge of the nose often creates a calming effect for dogs like this. The current trainer passing Tweeter around the class for everyone to handle should be put on hold for now, until you've had a few privates. It's important that someone knows how to read this dog and knows how to correct any future threats to bite, before he gets another one in on a stranger.

 

[Christin Luvs Dogs]

I think the first thing you need to do is stop putting Tweeter in situations where he may bite. The more bites he has under his belt the more difficult this will be for a trainer to help you undo. Until you have a clear plan of how to handle his reactions to men/people you need to keep this puppy away from the people you predict he will have a reaction to. Protect your dog!

Honestly, I am not impressed that your trainer would let you pass this dog around...this dog clearly cannot handle the stress and will eventually be pushed to biting which drives the behavior deeper every time. Please consult a behaviorist and keep Tweeter from biting until you have a way to handle social interactions.

I agree that this sounds fear related, so concentrate on building confidence through positive training methods and eliminating encounters that may result in biting.

Try asking your vet for a recommendation for a behaviorist, otherwise search the web for behaviorists in your area. Good luck and I hope things get better!

 

[jason_els]

Thank you all.

The trainer I'm seeing is a behaviorist. PhD and all. She definitely wants him in class.

Today I took them to meet my mom and that went well. They took treats from her off-leash and while they didn't stand to be touched, they did approach close enough to take the treats.

They like my step father well enough. He too can give them treats and they don't bark at him and this was only the second time they met him. He is, however, very laid back and relaxed in general.

When I approach someone, I approach the person first, speak and greet them, then I ask the person to give them a treat while speaking nicely. I stand to the side and ask the person to squat down and not reach over their heads. I encourage them by saying it's ok, and sounding enthusiastic and generally making sure they know there's a great treat. They'll take the treat and then back off.

I don't believe this is dominance agression. When they approach, particularly Tweeter, the ears are back but the lips aren't drawn back. The feet and legs are forward enough for him to lean back, and the tail is kept down, not straight back. They lean forward to take the treat then hop back a bit to eat it.

The impression I get is that they're fearful of these people. Again, Boomer warms-up much more quickly and I wonder if he isn't taking cues from Tweeter because Boomer is generally reticent but eventually friendly enough. He likes my step father now well enough to jump on his leg looking for treats and even tolerates a pet or two. Boomer doesn't make any threatening moves on his own.

The trainer said that, like in puppy class, they seemed to want to get to know people and other dogs but didn't know how to engage them properly. After meeting my mom for the first time, we went to the dog park. It's a leash-only park but I've just discovered that nobody pays any attention to the TWO BIG SIGNS THAT SAY PETS MUST BE LEASHED AT ALL TIMES as all three dogs we encountered were off-leash! That wasn't good at all. The three dogs were friendly and wanted to greet my dogs and say hello but as my dogs were on leash and the other dogs were off, my dogs were immediately on the defensive and felt very threatened. I didn't comfort them but instead kept a light voice and commented how the other dogs wanted to play and it wasn't so bad, yadda yadda. My dogs quickly ran around me getting tangled in their leashes and by the last dog Boomer was actually begging to go into the car to get away. Given how much they dislike the car, that's saying something.

I really don't know what has brought this on. Nobody has every treated them badly, they've never been left alone with anyone else, I give treats to new people who meet them to give to them, we go to visit the businesses downtown where people give them attention, I took them to Easter dinner with a house-full of people, they've met kids, seniors, men, and women. They've been going faithfully to the puppy socialization classes since they started, they go to Petco and PetSmart and the local pet store with me, and despite the car sickness, I try to take them to many places to see many things and meet new people. Boomer is nervous at first but generally fine. He doesn't bite or snap or growl at all. Tweeter has all the issues and, of the two, he's the dominant. Tweeter eats first, Tweeter sits or lays closest to me, Boomer complains and Tweeter ignores him, Tweeter wants whatever Boomer has until Tweeter gets it then doesn't want it then Boomer can have it all he wants. That's not to say Tweeter doesn't care about him. On occasions Boomer has hurt himself and cried out, Tweeter will bolt right over to him to find out what's wrong and begin licking, pawing, and sniffing him.

The trainer has suggested that I let them stay outside and take them as many places as possible. To that end I've been focusing on leash walking and they're great at it. I can now take them walking on the street. They do jump at loud or unfamiliar noises and stop to sniff everything they can. Spring has brought birds and insects and small animals and leaves and all flowers and all kinds of new things they've never experienced so I imagine it's a bit of sensory overload. The woods are noisy! There are rabbits and more deer and chipmunks and birds and moths and skunks and raccoons and coyotes and foxes and turkeys and the insects make a racket at night. The streets have trucks and cars and music and skateboarding kids and and garbage bins and bright colors and odd objects, people of all shapes and sizes who they are not familiar with. Today was the first day they actually went to play in the stream whereas last week they wouldn't even drink from it. I'm really trying to get them out into the world to get used to it and see it as not threatening. I don't tense-up when they're around new people and when they get anxious I don't coddle them. I try to be relaxed and not let them hide behind me.

What fun this all is!! :yikes:

 

[LhasaLover]

I have a young rescue dog that I'm currently teaching good manners to when we have visitors. He hasn't tried to bite anyone yet, but he's bitten me in the past, has growled at some visitors, and has done the non-stop barking thing, too. I'm trying to curb this before it gets out of control. He also gets wildly excited when we have company and jumps on them a lot, which I'm trying to stop.

What I've started doing in the last few weeks is leashing him before I let him near the visitors and it's working - and I keep him leashed to me the whole time, until I know he's behaving on his own. When he goes to jump on them, I say "no", and pull him back with the leash - that's working very well. When he growls at someone, I step to them immediately, tell him, "NO", and "go away" - and he slinks off. That hurts his feelings so he usually comes back in a better frame of mind.

He also is fearful of new things - even small things - and I'm working to replace that with curiousity by holding the object there and telling him it's ok until he turns to it and gives it a sideways sniff. He's slowly starting to learn.

 

[jason_els]

This is the behaviorist who does the training near me. She's the only one even remotely close and she's very cool. Her husband just rolled with it (thank God), and, in fairness, she stopped the passing around right after Tweeter bit him. Her concern wasn't casual at all. She made it quite clear it was serious.

I certainly was dumbfounded as he hadn't done this before particularly since he's never shown fear or aggression to me in any sense. Not even the slightest growl. Boomer will get in my face when he wants something but Tweeter will lay quietly and wait until I offer him food (I hand feed most of their meal). Tweeter will take my seat on the couch when I get up but when I approach he moves right over without having to be commanded to. With me, at least, he's immensely deferential. He tolerates me feeding or playing with Boomer first as well. If you didn't know them, you'd think Boomer ran everything as he's the complainer and the physically pushier (hence his name) not to mention at least 2 lbs bigger than Tweeter.