Puppy is showing a mean streak

[Skinsrule1156]

I tried searching but figured I would give the exact details of what is going on and seek your expert opinions on what I should do. I have a 10 1/2 week old lab/poodle mix (shown in the picture). My wife and I have had Bailey for about two weeks now. He is training great, already sitting on command, goes into his crate with no problems, allows me to put a leash on him with no problems, and even knows not to chew on anything other than his chew toys (this is accomplished with a "ehh" command when he starts to put his mouth on certain things, followed with very high and soothing "good boy" when he is chewing his toys). However, the last couple of days I have noticed a strange behavior. I let him out in our back yard to do his business, I have him on leash since our back yard is not yet fenced. He was trying to eat/bite at one of our plants (a Laurel) which I was not sure was poisonus or not. I gave him the "ehh" command, but he did not listen, so I gave a quick tug at the leash and he backed off. Then out of nowhere he came running at me growling and biting my legs, arms, etc... it looked like a full out attack. I tried to hold my ground and not back-off as he was doing this, but he did not back down. Since he was attached with a leash, I unforunitely had to pull him off of me and hold him away which I could clearly see was causing him pain since it look like he was choking. When he calmed down, I would say good boy, and pet him, and then he started at it again. I would get him to back off, we would go inside and he would act like nothing happened, and he would sit next to me for me to take his leash and collar off. He has had this type of behavior now two times against me and three times at my wife. What should I do? This does not happen everytime we go outside (never happens inside), but it has happened more than once. Seems to happen in the afternoon/evenings, not in the mornings.

 

[Herschel]

It sounds like the zoomies--he was just running around being silly. Part of being a puppy, especially a lab puppy, is learning bite inhibition. This isn't aggression, it's play!

Just yesterday, I was running in the park with Herschel (16 month old terrier mix) and getting him all riled up so he would chase me, growl, and bite my pant legs. It's fun but your dog needs to know when to stop.

This article will help you tremendously: http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bite.txt

(By the way, I hope Cesar Milan didn't convince you that this is aggression)

 

[Skinsrule1156]

Thanks for you reply. I have been watching way too much Cesar Milan! My wife has set our DVR to record all shows, so that is pretty much what we watch now. I am not sure it was him being silly, it seemed more than that, like he wanted to attack me.

 

[Doberluv]

If you want to understand dog behavior and training, how they learn, what's in their heads, read Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. There are lots of good trainers/books out there, but this is reeeeeeelly good. Cesar Milan does not know behavior and how to guide an train a dog. All he knows how to do is supress behavior. Please don't learn dog behavior from him. He has no education in behaviorism and uses intimidation techniques to squelch behavior.

It sounds like he's being a puppy with lots of pent up energy. This is how puppies play until they learn human ways. Redirect him to something else. Get him lots of exercise, teach him fetch. And start teaching him some basic obedience skills. Reinforce with something he loves for even seconds of good behavior. Tiny, tiny treats are usually a big hit or a favorite toy just used for reward for things. Get his body and mind tired out. ASAP, as soon as he's had a couple series of vaccines, get him into a puppy class with a positive method trainer.

Puppies do these things. It's normal. With any behavior which is attention seeking behavior like jumping up, biting on you hard, do no reinforce by looking at, speaking to or touching. Walk away and end all playtime. If that doesn't work and he comes after you still.....remove him or yourself for a minute or two and try again. Show him what behavior ends the good stuff and what behavior gets him treats and attention. It takes time and maturity, but he'll settle down. Do get a hold of some good training books and don't listen to people like Cesar Milan tell you that your puppy is trying to dominate you, be the "alpha" and take over your world. That is so old school and not based on science and what real experts know about domestic dog behavior.

 

[Herschel]

Thanks for you reply. I have been watching way too much Cesar Milan! My wife has set our DVR to record all shows, so that is pretty much what we watch now. I am not sure it was him being silly, it seemed more than that, like he wanted to attack me.

Haha. How did I know?

Doberluv gave you some great advice. Try to enjoy the silliness of puppyhood before he grows up! At the same time, you only want to reinforce positive behaviors and discourage negative ones (such as biting at your clothes, etc.). Saying a 10 week old puppy was trying to attack you is the same as saying a 1 year old infant was trying to start a fight by slapping your face .

This is a nice, easy book that will help you a lot with dog training:
Patricia McConnell's Beginning Family Dog Training
http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Family-Training-Patricia-McConnell/dp/1891767038

 

[Skinsrule1156]

Thanks for the great information. I guess its silly that I think he was trying to attack, I know how young he is, but if you all could see him in action.....anyways, I will try these tips. I know for a fact that he is not getting enough exercise because my wife and I are scared to take him outside other than our yard because he has only had two rounds of shots. His 3rd round is scheduled for August 2nd, and after that we will start taking him for a 30-40 minute walk in the morning and about an hour walk in the evening which should tire him out. Is it safe to walk him now, or should I wait until he has had the 3rd round of shots? We try playing fetch and other exercises with him, but he ends up running off in the corner and just wanting to chew what we were playing fetch with, I have walked him around our yard, but he gets bored and just wants to sniff everything.

 

[otch1]

Recommend you talk to your vet first. Some puppies display unusually high levels of testosterone at a very early age. When he's up and out in the morning there's an urgency to eliminate. He's got to go, no fooling around. In the afternoon through evening, it's not as urgent and he may have a desire to take his time, mark and explore on his terms. (Is he showing any signs of this?) Rare for a puppy this age, but you stating he never challenges you in the house and generally only on an afternoon/evening potty break, is something to pay attention to. Are you taking him to the same area to eliminate each break or do you walk him around the yard to go potty where he pleases? This may be a pup that's best neutered a little earlier than one would normally schedule and one that gets into obedience classes soon. Until then, the best way to discourage this behavior is not to string him up to keep from getting bitten, but to take him in hand. Make this a training session every time you or your wife take him out. Treats in pocket. When you take him to go potty, it's in a designated area, not throughout the yard. Give him a longer line and stand still, do not walk him. It's not play time, he's there to do his "business" and needs to learn to do this on command. Lots of praise and food reward when he goes. Then walk. He can sniff, wander... but when you come upon something he's not allowed to put in his mouth or go after instead of a correction (Ehh!) use the command "leave it". There is no corrective tone of voice, simply instruct him. Quietly give command, take a step back and encourage puppy to turn and come toward you. This time instead of turning his attention to you with the intend to launch himself at you, he should see your hand lowered with a food reward ready for coming to you and sitting. He does not get this treat until he's seated. Don't move your hand or give him any reason to around your hand toward your leg or come up on his hind feet. Keep hand at nose level, let him mouth treat and rock it over his nose baiting him into a sit. He needs to learn that whenever you tell him "leave it" he's to come to you and sit, keeping paws on the ground. When he does there's a lot of praise/reward for this. If he by-passes treat to get to you, quickly slip your left hand in his collar spin his head away from you and scoop him up with your right hand. Support his body and keep him still with one arm, holding his head up and under control under your other arm. Give command "settle". He's held until he settles down. Then, set him gently on ground, left hand still in collar, while you bait him again into a sit. It's important you be firm and calm about this. This exercise ends in a sit and food reward is given while your hand's still in collar so you don't accidentally create a dog that pulls back when your hand goes toward collar. I'm sure he's getting to be a big boy now, so if he's too heavy to lift you can maintain the same position by kneeling and tucking him close to your right leg, left hand still in collar, right hand pressing body against you using your leg as a barrier to keep him from swinging around and biting, quietly going through the same process. Stringing him up can make this behavior worsen. By using this alternate exercise it lets him know you are in complete control and all activity stops until he's respectfully seated and attentive. Good luck!

 

[Dekka]

My suggestion is to stop watching Mr Milan (its ok for entertainment, but its like watching House, for medical advice) and enroll in a good puppy class. I agree this is likely normal puppy behaviour. Growling snapping and 'play attacking' is all part of a pup 'practicing' behaviours. Just like a kitten pouncing on a string. All dogs do this, its a normal part of growing up.

You have good some great advice from others.

 

[Skinsrule1156]

Thanks otch1! It sounds like you have hit the nail on the head. He is definitely showing the signs of wanting to take his time and pee on his terms. I will give your advice a try.

 

[Herschel]

Thanks for the great information. I guess its silly that I think he was trying to attack, I know how young he is, but if you all could see him in action.....anyways, I will try these tips. I know for a fact that he is not getting enough exercise because my wife and I are scared to take him outside other than our yard because he has only had two rounds of shots. His 3rd round is scheduled for August 2nd, and after that we will start taking him for a 30-40 minute walk in the morning and about an hour walk in the evening which should tire him out. Is it safe to walk him now, or should I wait until he has had the 3rd round of shots? We try playing fetch and other exercises with him, but he ends up running off in the corner and just wanting to chew what we were playing fetch with, I have walked him around our yard, but he gets bored and just wants to sniff everything.

We live in a nice area so we started walking Herschel as soon as we got him at 8 weeks old. It didn't even occur to us that we should shelter him from anything until he had all of his shots...

 

[otch1]

I'm so slow in posting/typing! Lol . The "zoomies" certainly are different than being attacked, so don't want you to think you're preventing an "attack" with this exercise. You're keeping from being nipped with those very sharp puppy teeth when he's very excited, while redirecting his attention to his treat for a sit. This needs to be done calmly. If both you and your vet feel this is simply a lack of exercise, after your next vet visit and vaccines, sounds like he's ready to get out there for more exercise, a class and time playing in a safe, controlled, fenced area.

 

[Romy]

Everybody has given great advice! It sounds like you'll be able to get his behavior turned around with some patience. Just wanted to add one thing:

Laurel plants are poisonous, so make sure he doesn't chew them anymore. That is all.

 

[Doberluv]

I wouldn't wait until he's had all of his vaccines. Two is plenty. Of course, there's a slight risk of disease but the risk of under socializing isn't a risk at all. It's a given and it isn't pretty. Get him out and about to see all kinds of new things, people of different ages and size, friendly, vaccinated pups. Make sure that nothing frightens him and stay clear of heavily travelled pet areas, such as dog parks, pet stores and the like until he's had the whole series. (yes, check with your vet). But get him exposed to as many things as possible now....before he is about 4-1/2 months old and onward. Don't stop socializing him ever. Dogs can tend to revert to the default of caution if they aren't continually shown novel things. But you'll be able to do a little less when he's an adult. Some need more than others and you can't over socialize, just do it in a way that isn't overwhelming or scary. It's vitally important for a well adjusted dog. Puppy classes will be great too, but get started now on socializing and showing him how good novel things and people are. Get people to give him treats. When you take him to see something new, feed him. Associating food reward with new, potentially scary things is a more proactive way to socialize than just by happenstance.

Try more exercise (you can do some right in your yard....running, throwing a toy for him) if it's fenced or he's on a long line and harness so he doesn't run out and snap his neck if he's on a long line....plus walks on a leash. If that doesn't settle him down a little, let us know.

As he learns to sit, (by luring at first, then fade asap and only reward when he sits) you can use that as a pre-requisit for earning the things he likes. That way, you are controlling his resources. That's what makes the best kind of leader to your doggie.

Anyhow, keep us potsed and good luck!

 

[Skinsrule1156]

Thanks for the great advice. Last night my wife and I took Bailey for his first walk. Boy did he love it! He was by our side most of the time. He met an older dog on the walk and the two hit it off great! When we got home (after an hour walk) he was really tired. He usually sits for his food, but when i asked him to sit this time, he sat for a couple of seconds and then just laid down. He fell asleep right next to his food bowl. This morning, we went on another walk, and again, it went great! I am looking into puppy classes, do you any of you know of any good ones in the Northern Virginia area? Are the Petsmart ones good?

 

[mjb]

When Spanky was a puppy, he did similar 'attacks'. He was a very active, social pup. He's a terrier mix and has some terrier characteristics which I've learned to absolutely love but really had a hard time with when he was a puppy. From some books, TV, and surfing the web, I was pretty convinced that he was becoming aggressive and trying to assert his dominance on all of us. I found a great trainer who worked with us with positive training with a clicker. He assured me that Spanky was far from being aggressive, which really helped me become more at ease. Once I felt confident that we had not adopted a monster, things started working out much better. I think my fears had really hindered our bonding and training.

I'm so glad I got help and did not give up. Spanky doesn't have any meanness in him in the least. He never did, but I didn't understand his behavior at all.

I think the best thing I did was get a very knowlegeable trainer/behaviorist to work with us. More than anything, his knowledge of dogs and temperaments put me at ease when he told me the behavior I was seeing was not aggression.

 

[Doberluv]

Mjb...GREAT POST and so informative. Your decision to find a good trainer/behaviorist who used sound methods based on science made all the difference. It is so distressing to me when I hear owners jump to the conclusion that their dog is "dominant" and trying to be "alpha" when all along, they're just being reinforced for a certain, obnoxious behavior.

You make such a good point that once you felt confident and knew what to do, everything went more smoothly. That's because you became consistant, your timing probably improved since you knew what to watch for, you reinforced the behavior you liked and everything fell into place.

I'm so glad you got that kind of help and what a difference it made. Your post is really important for people to take a good hard look at.

Skins....It sounds great how he loved his walk. Terrific! The only thing that caught my eye is that he met an older dog along the way. This is great that the dog was friendly and it gave him a good experience. But, I must caution you that although most adult dogs are tolerant and friendly to puppies, not all are. If you do not know the dog, be careful. All it takes is one bad experience, one big snarl, teeth snapping or other less than friendly display and your puppy can be impacted forever in a way that makes him dog aggressive later in life or fearful. Ask people, watch the other dog's body language from a distance first. Does he look happy and waggy all over? Just be cautious. But meeting other dogs when everything is just right is very good and important.

He sounds adorable how he fell asleep right next to his bowl. You must be in love.

Petsmart sometimes has a good trainer, but the requirements are small so a lot of them aren't very experienced. The main problem I see with them is their very, very small area that they use to get all the dogs together in. It's too crowded and causes potential problems. I'd look elsewhere. One place to look for trainers is through the APDT. Here, check out their website...not sure if this is the place that lists trainers in different areas. Someone here has a way to help find you some. If Dr2little doesn't see this thread, you might pm her. Or maybe Otch knows how to find some. But this site might lead to the right place....not sure.

http://www.apdt.com/about/prog/scholarships/win/2005_winner_03.aspx

It doesn't mean that every trainer affiliated with this organization is necessarily going to knock your socks off, but it's a start. Always go watch one class before signing up. Make sure that the trainer looks like someone you like who is gentle and kind with animals, knows positive reinforcement training techniques and can relate to the human students in the class as well.

You can also get recommendations from your vet or if you notice a very well trained dog out and about, ask his owners if they used a trainer. Just steer clear of trainers who want to slap a choke chain on your puppy and start yanking him around, being stern, scolding and harsh. That will ruin a puppy so fast it can make your head spin.

Anyhow, you are off to a GREAT start. Keep us posted.

 

[otch1]

Hi skins... glad to hear your walk went well! Falling asleep at his food bowl would indicate he certainly was worn out. Lol A 1 hr walk for a puppy under 12 weeks may be a little long. You'll find doing two 30 min walks per day, more reasonable. Agree with Doberluv, Petsmart may not be the first place you want to look into for training. APDT is a good place to start. Watch a class first, talk to the trainer. Find someone whom you'll be comfortable having an on-going relationship with. Most trainers know your pup through maturity, if things go well. They can help you go from beginning through advanced training, give good recommendations for groomers, vets, boarding and pet care.

 

[Doberluv]

Oh! Glad you noticed that Otch. I missed it, as I often do miss things. Uggggg. Yeah...maybe an hour is a little excessive. I think what is easier on them, but just as tiring are a few shorter walks and plenty of just plain romping outside in the yard where they're not apt to move in a repetative gait. They run, they trot, turn, stop, bounce....all that spreads out the stress on bones and joints more equally and build muscles all over the place to hold things together, instead of one same gait and speed working the very same bones over and over and over. And little, short practice sessions....just 5 minutes throughout the day really tires them out....all that thinking and learning. Whew! LOL.

 

[RSX JDM Integra]

(By the way, I hope Cesar Milan didn't convince you that this is aggression)

:lol-sign:

Herschel is right. At this stage he is just playing. It is important that he DOES learn bite inhibition though. My adopted Corgi mix never did bite me though but I adopted her at 4 months. I think she just knows better than that so it was a plus side for me.

If he was really being aggressive, this tend of behavior would be consistent in the house as well.

Just make sure that he knows that you aren't pleased with his barks and growls. As the puppy ages, it might become a behavior that is hard to fix if left untreated.

I'd say a quick and firm shout of "NO" or "EHH" as you would like to use and a tug on the leash would make him/her stop. And once they stop; just give them a treat they will cherish and praise.

 

[Doberluv]

IMO, shouting "NO!" doesn't convey what you want too well and it can frighten and confuse a sensative puppy. I agree that bite inhibition is very important to learn. Here is the best article I've seen to describe the subject. http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bite.txt

My whole philosophy on raising puppies is to create a foundation of a working relationship based on trust. Things that cause fear, a lot of startling, discomfort work against you. And for tougher puppies, believe it or not, some actually are reinforced because you're attening to them by speaking and looking at them, even though its not a pleasant type of attention.

Most puppies grow out of this stage with a little help from us. Don't worry too much or take things terribly seriously. Puppies have to go through this stage with some guidance from us to show them better alternatives.