On-leash aggression on walks

jjwoodee

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#61
I have never seen a relation between dogs marking in public areas and the reactivity issues you have. I have never seen a dog exhibit territorial behaviors in a "common" area such as a park, unless it is being territorial about it's owner, it's vehicle, or the spot it is standing on at the moment. I've had territorial dominant dogs, and yea, they remark the same places when out in public, but they don't show any real ownership of those areas.

As for the treats, will he work for treats when he's in his comfort zone? If he will, then when he stops taking treats while he's agitated, it's a good indication that he's overloaded, at which time he is unable to learn anything. While the toy at that point might help redirect him, he still is in a frame of mind where there is little to no learning happening.
Thanks Corgi - your experience marking and reactivity allows me to dismiss the connection. As far as working for treats in the comfort zone it depends on the distraction and the distance. Sometimes is all I can say. The biggest triggers are the white husky who he was wounded by 2 months ago(arch ememy #1), 2 black neighborhood scottish terriers (arch ememy #2) whose owner screams frantically at to shut up, and dogs he is not familiar with. He is often ballastic whn confronted from a distance in these scenarios.

Off leash at parks he is fine. If we are not working on commands I do let him instigate chases with the other dogs as this is his favorite activity. He extremely fast and can turn on dimes. He can't out run whippets but I have seem him out manuver them in these open park situations. But since we have gone into serious obedience I restrict dog park rodeos and set up specific play dates with other friendly dogs and their owners. I have received comments from friends and family about how more relaxed he seems - so after a month I'd say thats is a win. But the reactive behavior is a big hurdle and almost seems impossible overcome at times.
 

houndlove

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#62
Dogs don't smell with their feet, they have glands that produce a scent between their toes. When they wipe their feet like that, they are depositing their personal scent.
 

adojrts

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#63
jjwoodee;
I have a few thoughts (this could be scary lol).
I have no idea if these ideas are of sound reasoning or valid and maybe folks on this forum who have a better understanding of this type of behaviour can either shoot it down or say hmmmm maybe.........

Now if I can put it down in text and make sense lol.

Lets say that your dog exhibits these behaviours while 'marking' in public because at that point there are no other dogs around and he is able to 'be the big dog', like a false bravado.
Does that make sense? Anybody want to expand on that? Think it's valid or not?

Lynn
 

corgipower

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#64
But the reactive behavior is a big hurdle and almost seems impossible overcome at times.
I completely understand. I'm dealing with a reactive dog right now as well, so I understand the frustration. I understand how it can feel like progress is being made and then the unexpected happens and it feels like you're back to square one.

Many hugs for you. Just remember ~ Two steps forward, one step back is still a step forward.

((((((((((jj))))))))))
 

corgipower

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#65
Lets say that your dog exhibits these behaviours while 'marking' in public because at that point there are no other dogs around and he is able to 'be the big dog', like a false bravado.
Does that make sense? Anybody want to expand on that? Think it's valid or not?
I don't know about the marking as a false bravado type of behavior, I dislike reading much into marking, unless it becomes a big problem (marking indoors, or like Ares ~ who walked on three legs cause he was so busy marking everything in sight.)

But as for a "false bravado", there certainly could be something to that in the reactivity. "I am scared, and therefore I act tough, and hopefully you'll leave." People do the same thing ~ bullies who push people around because the bully is insecure.
 

adojrts

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#66
But as for a "false bravado", there certainly could be something to that in the reactivity. "I am scared, and therefore I act tough, and hopefully you'll leave." People do the same thing ~ bullies who push people around because the bully is insecure.
Yeah, that is what I meant, especially if other dogs are not present, I don't know if its valid or not, lol who knows with dogs!!!!
At any rate, I too wouldn't worry about it too much either, unless it became more of problem.
 

adojrts

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#67
I agree that dealing with a reactive dog shifts and changes all the time. We work with them, they get better and then we have an incident, BAM they slide back for a while and become more reactive.
My dog is 7 1/2 yrs old and although he has improved a tremenous amount and now very seldom reacts, he still can react to certain dogs but at least now he typically doesn't go 'ape***t'. When he does react its generally not as bad and he recovers quickly.
My biggest concern is to ensure that he doesn't esculate until he becomes DA. That he doesn't engage FIRST.
 

lizzybeth727

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#68
kicking the dirt on homeplate like an upset baseball manager after a bad call. It's almost like my dog says - **** it, how dare any other dog mark my space.
Quite simply, that's just not what your dog's saying, despite how it looks to us humans. There is a real danger in humanizing our dogs - attributing human qualities to canine behaviors, even though they have nothing to do with each other. All dog owners do this to an extent, and it's something we have to all be aware of.

"Marking is abehavior of claiming territory or an object by leaving an identification mark on it....it is primarly a dominant or self confident canines that who mark. The purpose of marking is to inform other dogs that the territory is inhabitied. "
Sure, I don't see anything in this statement that I disagree with. Personally, I like self confident dogs, they're much easier to deal with than dogs that are so scared they cower and hide in new situations. If your dog is showing fear reactivity, maybe you should be happy when he shows his confidence!
 

elegy

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#69
when i have mushroom out on a walk and another dog charges the fence barking, mushroom will immediately look for something to mark. sometimes he'll kick dirt, but usually, it's just mark and move on. i *know* he's uncomfortable and upset and anxious. i don't know why the marking- self-comforting? trying to appear manly enough to ward off another dog's "attack"? other? i don't worry about it, i just let him do it because there are far worse things he could be doing, and move on.

mushroom's got a lot of fear-based reactivity toward other dogs on leash.
 

houndlove

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#70
Conrad is the same as Mushroom with the on-leash fear reactivity, but instead of immediately looking for something to mark when confronted with another reactive or aggressive dog, he looks for something to sniff (which sometimes leads to marking if he finds a good spot, but it just starts as sniffing). It's quite possible that marking, along with sniffing, scratching, shaking it off, is a displacement behavior and a calming signal. Could be. We don't really know what goes on in a dog's head. If everything else about the dog screams "FEARFUL/REACTIVE" I wouldn't change my entire view on them just based on their elimination habits.
 

jjwoodee

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#72
I completely understand. I'm dealing with a reactive dog right now as well, so I understand the frustration. I understand how it can feel like progress is being made and then the unexpected happens and it feels like you're back to square one.

Many hugs for you. Just remember ~ Two steps forward, one step back is still a step forward.

((((((((((jj))))))))))
Thank you Corgi - I appreciate you're understanding and your mantra I repeat in my head frequently. :)
 
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houndlove

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#73
Another dog foot factoid that's good to know: Dogs have sweat glands in their feet as well. If your dog is making little sweaty paw prints on the sidewalk or floor and they didn't just finish running 8 laps around the dog park or it isn't a 90 degree day, your dog is stressed (they sweat when stressed out just like we do). It's a good thing to look out for if you have a dog prone to either shutting down or having melt-downs due to anxiety.
 

corgipower

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#74
It's quite possible that marking, along with sniffing, scratching, shaking it off, is a displacement behavior and a calming signal. Could be. We don't really know what goes on in a dog's head. If everything else about the dog screams "FEARFUL/REACTIVE" I wouldn't change my entire view on them just based on their elimination habits.
It could be a stress response and an avoidance. I have seen sniffing done as an avoidance behavior, I have seen scratching and shaking it off as stress indicators. And Tyr marks when he's stressed.
But it is true that these behaviors can be ambiguous.
 

jjwoodee

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#75
Quite simply, that's just not what your dog's saying, despite how it looks to us humans. There is a real danger in humanizing our dogs - attributing human qualities to canine behaviors, even though they have nothing to do with each other. All dog owners do this to an extent, and it's something we have to all be aware of.


Sure, I don't see anything in this statement that I disagree with. Personally, I like self confident dogs, they're much easier to deal with than dogs that are so scared they cower and hide in new situations. If your dog is showing fear reactivity, maybe you should be happy when he shows his confidence!
I was using my description as familiar analogy - one that any reader might relate. I agree there are many anthropomorphics that might cloud the distinction between dog and human but dogs can be pretty darned intune with our feelings and express these in homo-sapien like fashion.

I haven't detected any lack of confidence from my dog or hiding, except for when my wife wants cut his nails or give him a good combing. He'll run for his safe haven, the crate. :) He gets over that quickly unlike this on-leash reactivity where sometimes the reaction is a "Hey I want to play" whimper, or "I'm going to tear that dog's head off and nothing is going to stop me" response.

It's not that I'm not happy that he is exhibiting this reaction after his marking, quite the contrary. The discussion in the forum is convincing me I should do an encouraging happy jig - but I'm not a good dancer.
 

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