Obama or McCain?
- Thread starter aivzdog
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It could - If we pull out too quickly and the government falls to another terrorist regime - what have we accomplished - what have those soldiers died for?
We havent finished what we started yet - which is why I dont think we can pull out yet. And finishing things can take a very long time - case in point - how long were we in Germany following the fall of the Third Reich?
This is an interesting Quote I took from the Washington Post (our generally anti-bush, anti-war Newspaper)
~Cate
We havent finished what we started yet - which is why I dont think we can pull out yet. And finishing things can take a very long time - case in point - how long were we in Germany following the fall of the Third Reich?
This is an interesting Quote I took from the Washington Post (our generally anti-bush, anti-war Newspaper)
~Cate
The bush regime had a plan to finish off Iraq from the day they took office. The lead up to war was a freakin snow job on the American people. The only honorable man in that party was Colin Powell and he resigned because he felt betrayed by his own people. Look no further than Rummy and VP Cheney. Bush is a puppet. I'm sure he's a nice man, not a very bright one and will take all the heat for two of the worst Americans any of us will ever come across.
That said, There are global consequences if we pull out of Iraq. Our status will take a bigger hit for stirring up the nest and running. An already volatile region could blow up, or any other number of things could happen that will affect the entire world directly.
If we stay, we will continue to be stretched thin, create deficits, and run this country into the ground. There is no easy answer, but all the BS about democracy and fight the good fight and there is NO comparison between this and the fall of the 3rd Reich.
Show me the German insurgents and terrorists that continued the war for the next 5 years after the battle was won. Show me the German religious fanatics that wanted to wage a holy war against the west. They were our ancestors, a country we were familiar with, a country we mirrored in a lot of ways, a country we could relate to. This wasn't a religious hornets nest that christianity and muslims have been fighting over the same stupid stuff for 2000 years. FOrgive me if I don't have the fortitude to want to stay long enough to fix that.
That said, There are global consequences if we pull out of Iraq. Our status will take a bigger hit for stirring up the nest and running. An already volatile region could blow up, or any other number of things could happen that will affect the entire world directly.
If we stay, we will continue to be stretched thin, create deficits, and run this country into the ground. There is no easy answer, but all the BS about democracy and fight the good fight and there is NO comparison between this and the fall of the 3rd Reich.
Show me the German insurgents and terrorists that continued the war for the next 5 years after the battle was won. Show me the German religious fanatics that wanted to wage a holy war against the west. They were our ancestors, a country we were familiar with, a country we mirrored in a lot of ways, a country we could relate to. This wasn't a religious hornets nest that christianity and muslims have been fighting over the same stupid stuff for 2000 years. FOrgive me if I don't have the fortitude to want to stay long enough to fix that.
Oh yeah....because living with the threat of gassing, death, torture and imprisonment is such an awsome way of life! They all LOVED Saddam! Which is why they tore his statue down...wanted to bring his head closer so they could give him a big kiss.
Right.
You can ask my Grandmother what she thought of the Americans coming in an 'invading' her country. She was in Italy (born in Verese but lived in Milano) during WWII when the American's 'invaded' her country and forced their way of life on those enjoying rule under Mussolini. She moved back to Milano when my father was a boy - but we see each other two or three times a year - she always comes back to the States for healthcare.
~Cate
Right.
You can ask my Grandmother what she thought of the Americans coming in an 'invading' her country. She was in Italy (born in Verese but lived in Milano) during WWII when the American's 'invaded' her country and forced their way of life on those enjoying rule under Mussolini. She moved back to Milano when my father was a boy - but we see each other two or three times a year - she always comes back to the States for healthcare.
~Cate
Erm, no.
I think so many people in America have this view that America is the best country ever and everything we do is amazing. That the way we do things is right, and the way all others do things is wrong. Democracy is not going to work in every country, it is not right for every country, we are forcing a governmental system on them that they do not want and that probably is not right for them. My opinion.
I think so many people in America have this view that America is the best country ever and everything we do is amazing. That the way we do things is right, and the way all others do things is wrong. Democracy is not going to work in every country, it is not right for every country, we are forcing a governmental system on them that they do not want and that probably is not right for them. My opinion.
So a government that kills its own people in thousands is an appropriate government. A Government that allows Holocaust is a better government? A dictatorship is better?
Again - I'll have to ask my grandmother how much she liked living under a dictarship.
I think that yes alot of Americans spout the 'we're better than you' POV - and then alot of Americans spout the 'we are up in everyone's biz-az and shouldnt be' POV - I also think alot of Americans havent gotten a chance to live under someone like Hitler or Mussolini or Saddam or Castro - I really wonder what they think.
In my case...I know what my grandmother thinks - I know what my history is (my father's father's family is Russian, German and Spanish Jews) and what those members think.
Maybe that makes me a snob - but I'd rather not take for granted the liberties democracy has given me and the members of my family who once lived under a great deal more difficulty than we deal with today...as bad as we have it...there are others who had it alot worse...and are doing alot better now because of American's sticking their noses where it doesnt belong....not everyone is...and not everyone will be...but I think it foolish to forget those who are, and those who could be.
Do you really think they were better off under Saddam?
~Cate
Again - I'll have to ask my grandmother how much she liked living under a dictarship.
I think that yes alot of Americans spout the 'we're better than you' POV - and then alot of Americans spout the 'we are up in everyone's biz-az and shouldnt be' POV - I also think alot of Americans havent gotten a chance to live under someone like Hitler or Mussolini or Saddam or Castro - I really wonder what they think.
In my case...I know what my grandmother thinks - I know what my history is (my father's father's family is Russian, German and Spanish Jews) and what those members think.
Maybe that makes me a snob - but I'd rather not take for granted the liberties democracy has given me and the members of my family who once lived under a great deal more difficulty than we deal with today...as bad as we have it...there are others who had it alot worse...and are doing alot better now because of American's sticking their noses where it doesnt belong....not everyone is...and not everyone will be...but I think it foolish to forget those who are, and those who could be.
Do you really think they were better off under Saddam?
~Cate
1. Something has been said in this forum that has really bothered me and i have to get it off my chest. Whoever says they won't vote for Obama because of Hillary, and would rather vote for Mccain, was never a real democrat in the first place, they are only crybabies that feel they have to exact their revenge for their candidate because they didn't get what they want, and don't really care for their country.
2. I don't understand how people can vote, without doing their proper research. Some people in this forum need to research the reasons we went into war, the state of our healthcare system, and the state of our economy, and the state of our planet. "Sicko" and "Fahrenheit 9/11" are two movies that i suggest watching. And if you want to learn about the economy, please read into the current situation going on with the housing market. We need to inform ourselves about the current state of our country because the next eight years are going to ride on the votes that we take.
3. My vote will be going towards Obama for the following reasons:
A. He has a real plan for Universal healthcare, which means that EVERYONE will have healthcare and EVERYONE will be able to seek medical attention when the time comes and they won't have to make a choice between choosing to re-attach their index or middle top finger because they can only afford to re-attach one of them, or they'll never have to hear the board of trustees of some Insurance company with whom they have medical insurance with tell them that they won't pay to cure the cancer in their partners body and end up having to see them die.
B. He has a real plan for fixing the housing crisis by helping people refinance instead of Mccain who would watch "HARD WORKING AMERICANS" get kicked out of their homes and live in the street. Talk about patriotic. Our government tells us to support our troops and pay billions of dollars to go to war, but we won't even support the middle class americans in this country that are going to pay for the war. WOW!!
C. I am sick and tired of stacking debt on top of my head when it comes to paying for my college education, and approve of Obama's plan that we should instead do community service in our community and that it would pay for our college education.
And that's my opinion by the way
2. I don't understand how people can vote, without doing their proper research. Some people in this forum need to research the reasons we went into war, the state of our healthcare system, and the state of our economy, and the state of our planet. "Sicko" and "Fahrenheit 9/11" are two movies that i suggest watching. And if you want to learn about the economy, please read into the current situation going on with the housing market. We need to inform ourselves about the current state of our country because the next eight years are going to ride on the votes that we take.
3. My vote will be going towards Obama for the following reasons:
A. He has a real plan for Universal healthcare, which means that EVERYONE will have healthcare and EVERYONE will be able to seek medical attention when the time comes and they won't have to make a choice between choosing to re-attach their index or middle top finger because they can only afford to re-attach one of them, or they'll never have to hear the board of trustees of some Insurance company with whom they have medical insurance with tell them that they won't pay to cure the cancer in their partners body and end up having to see them die.
B. He has a real plan for fixing the housing crisis by helping people refinance instead of Mccain who would watch "HARD WORKING AMERICANS" get kicked out of their homes and live in the street. Talk about patriotic. Our government tells us to support our troops and pay billions of dollars to go to war, but we won't even support the middle class americans in this country that are going to pay for the war. WOW!!
C. I am sick and tired of stacking debt on top of my head when it comes to paying for my college education, and approve of Obama's plan that we should instead do community service in our community and that it would pay for our college education.
And that's my opinion by the way
No - we need to stay in Iraq until the government there can support itself - that's the only reason we are there now - so that they dont crumble - because if they crumble...I have little doubt in my mind where the country will go from there. That's what my commanders tell me, what their commanders tell them, and what the highest up commanders tell the soldiers.
Perla - just because we dont share your views doesnt mean we dont do research - that's rather insulting I think.
Also - Democrats are not all liberal and they dont all share the same views - reasons I have heard not to vote for Obama from other Democrats are :
1. He has little experience.
2. Rev. Wright
3. He falls apart under Pressure.
But then again - they're not doing research are they...so it doesnt matter. My father is a Blue Dog Democrat - ie a Jeffersonian Democrat - the kind of Democrat that used to dominante the party years ago. To say that all Democrats have to share the same views or they arent Democrats is affronting as well.
~Cate
Perla - just because we dont share your views doesnt mean we dont do research - that's rather insulting I think.
Also - Democrats are not all liberal and they dont all share the same views - reasons I have heard not to vote for Obama from other Democrats are :
1. He has little experience.
2. Rev. Wright
3. He falls apart under Pressure.
But then again - they're not doing research are they...so it doesnt matter. My father is a Blue Dog Democrat - ie a Jeffersonian Democrat - the kind of Democrat that used to dominante the party years ago. To say that all Democrats have to share the same views or they arent Democrats is affronting as well.
~Cate
I"m not really for universal HC either. Maybe catostrophic insurance, accidents things like that, but 75% of our dollars are to treat chronic disease which is largely because of lifestyle choices. Wanna live like crap??? pay for it yourself.
Medicare is bankrupting this country much much faster than this war is, and I think this war is terrible. Get the money and politics out of Health care, get the lobbiests and big pharma out of washington, and get Americans to accept some personal responsibility for their health and watch costs get contained and real health come back to America.
Medicare is bankrupting this country much much faster than this war is, and I think this war is terrible. Get the money and politics out of Health care, get the lobbiests and big pharma out of washington, and get Americans to accept some personal responsibility for their health and watch costs get contained and real health come back to America.
I'm not talking about the reason we are there now, i'm talking about the reason we went there in the first place. We (the american people) were led to believe that we were going to iraq to capture the terrorist, but we were told in the middle of that lie that we were really getting weapons of mass destruction. Then, we were told that we were fighting Al-Queada and extremist. And now, their telling us that we are establishing Democracy. BTW, isn't it kind of coincidental that we decided to take Saddam Hussein out of Iraq and Iraq is the second largest producer of oil in the world. We should went after the real terrorist. By the way, how come we're not going after Osama Bin Laden, he's the one who bombed us.