(Nosework advice!) What do you guys think?

[lancerandrara]

I've been itching to start a formal activity with my dog, supposedly the next dog that I was planning on adopting. I know that Lancer can't start anything that requires close proximity with reactive dogs, which is the majority of competitive dog sports. He could have started in nosework as a puppy, but I personally had zero interest in it before. SO OF COURSE, I delved a little deeper into it 2 years later and now I have interest, specifically in narcotics/contraband detection for the future. Even though I can't say that Lancer and I would get to that level, I'm very interested in at least engaging in nosework to start and learning more/getting some level of experience under my belt for future plans with future dog.

I found this place that just happens to be in my home town. If any of you nosework people have time, can you guys check it out and let me know the pros and cons from the website? http://www.rocksolidk9.com/site?LOAD=index

What would be the order of which we would take classes? I'm assuming an "Intro to K9 Nosework" first, and then moving up their class levels...?

Is it worthwhile to take, or is "Intro to Nosework" something that I can train Lancer at home, and then jump right into a little more advanced class?

Do you guys have links for information/training to get started?

What kinds of questions should I be asking when I email these trainers?

I'm hoping to find out as much as I can about this, so I can plan out a clear path that we can take, and we don't wander this way and that, dropping $ into random nosework classes willy nilly.

(I may or may not have sounded like a complete noob using incorrect terms, but it's because I am... ;; )

Any and ALL information is appreciated! WHEE WHOO.

 

[Elrohwen]

It looks good to me! Their instructors are certified with the NACSW (which is the main national group offering nosework) which means they will have pretty standard training practices. You can find out more about the org at http://nacsw.net/

They also have real detection dog training which would be cool. One gripe I have about NACSW is that they tend to dictate how everything should be trained (since the sport is so new and they are figuring it out) but it's helpful to have instructors with other scent experience who can bring more to the table, especially when you get to advanced levels or need to do some troubleshooting.

I would definitely start with Intro to Nosework. There are things you can do at home, but since you've never done it before I think starting at the beginning is the best option. You will probably do one class with just searching for food, and then move on to "Intro to Odor" where they will add odors. Looks like they have a perfectly clear path laid out, and the levels of nosework (NW1, NW2, and NW3) are very clear on the abilities your dog must have to pass, so I wouldn't worry about that. With certified trainers who train to the NACSW trials, one class is going to be about like any other with minor differences depending on that trainer. They all progress in a similar way.

There are people who are now training straight to odor. FDSA offers intro to nosework classes that work this way. They require more training experience though, while the basic nosework method is good for anybody no matter what their level of dog training. So both have their pros and cons. After training one dog in nosework I'm comfortable starting the other on my own, but I don't think I would have felt comfortable doing that for my first dog. Plus the intro class probably goes over a lot about how odor works, what nosework is all about, etc. If you started your dog on your own and came in later you wouldn't know if you were at the right level and you would have missed some early info. I think it's worth doing the intro course on your first dog.

Have fun! I really enjoyed nosework with Watson though we haven't done it in a while. I plan to do the foundations with Hazel this winter (using the FDSA method, just to try something new) before joining the intermediate local classes with her. I like that once you have the basics and your dog knows his job, it's easy to take on the road and do wherever or whenever. It's a great rainy day activity for Watson that wears out his brain.

 

[lancerandrara]

Thanks much for the advice, it's very informative. I just sent over a longish email now to them with a bit about Lancer's fear-reactivity towards dogs. (Hope it wasn't too long-winding and they do reply lksjfslddlsjk) I'm hoping that one-on-one classes aren't TOO significant of a difference price-wise compared to group classes.

Assuming we're trying to get straight into narcotics detection, search and rescue/human remains detection- how do you think we should go about this? I'd just be taking the first Intro to Nosework class as a foundation, and then immediately splitting off into detection (aka not taking further nosework classes that are aimed at trialing)? I understand that nosework trials uses birch, anise, and clove just for trialing reasons...

It's definitely a great rainy day activity, and very practical and do-anywhere as well with further training once I got the foundations down, which is what I'm liking about it. Good luck with Hazel!!

That was kind of a ramble and didn't have very specific questions, I realized. But if anyone has some input, how do you think we should start getting a foot in, with an end goal of contraband detection OR search and rescue? It seems that there aren't specific "Search and Rescue Training" or the like in my area that's provided for just anybody, and it's mostly private divisions/police who are looking. But I might just be very bad at searching.

 

[lancerandrara]

(double post-ish ._. )

 

[Snark]

I've just done Intro to Nosework with Michaela, and I'm taking the Intro course with Riley now. Dogs work one at a time and the rest of the dogs are crated in a separate area, so it's good for reactive dogs (like Michaela).
We stayed with food for all 6 intro classes, what changed was the 'environment', moving from just a few boxes, to lots of boxes (with food outside the boxes), to lots of boxes/objects spread out over a large area, to moving to a different indoor area, to moving to outside. The next class, I believe, is still using food, but moves to mostly outside and vehicle searches. I think they start pairing food with the scent in this class, too, but it's an earlier class and I don't get off work in time to get to it. Sigh.
Michaela definitely likes using her nose, Riley is undecided (he can take or leave most food, and stresses in new places) so he's not as enthusiastic as she was about working. Still, the idea is that the dog ALWAYS wins (finds the food/scent) and there's no stress involved, the dog is allowed to work as they please.

 

[Elrohwen]

Oh, I missed the part about one on one classes. You won't need that. NACSW is really big on making everything doable for reactive dogs. Classes are always set up so that dogs work alone and don't see other dogs.

Search and rescue is a whole different beast and honestly I don't think it would be appropriate for a dog with fear reactivity issues. Most teams also require like 20 hours of your time per week and do not allow you to bring a dog until you've shown commitment to the team. It's really more of a part time job on a volunteer basis (or that requires crazy hours). Dogs must be high drive and tireless. I would just do standard Nw and see if you even like it. Then ask the instructors what they think since they also train detection. They will let you know if you'd be a good candidate. Get to the point where your dog is on odor at least because I don't think you'll know if you like it before then.
This article is really good: http://teamunruly.com/?p=6366

 

[SoCrafty]

It looks like this group offers two kinds of Nose Work classes - the kind we do and one that is a job.

We do what would be the "fun" Nose Work section of their website. Basically, it is just a big old game. Very reward driven (actually, you can get penalized if you don't reward your dog). You learn how to work and listen to your dog. You don't search for people or narcotics. What you search for are different scents...birch, anise, clove (there are two others, I believe...but the names escape me atm). If these classes are like mine, your dog may be able to be in a group setting. Our dogs were kept in their crates in a different room, and each dog had a turn. They were never face to face with another dog.

I recommend the intro classes. Ours were the basics of the sports, and showed us how to train our dog to find a specific scent. There are interior container searches, interior room searches and external vehicle searches (we also did an exterior container-type search). It shows you how to listen to your dog.

I don't know anything about the other kinds classes though (narcotics or people). I'm sorry!

 

[lancerandrara]

Ahh, nosework (trialing) is for Lancer then. I definitely wouldn't be flying straight into real detection work anytime soon then, but I was curious what steps of training we would need to progress through IF I had that kind of dog. The article you posted is extremely useful!

I'm definitely going to start Intro to Nosework with Lancer though, see how we like it before jumping in to Search and Rescue or narcotics detections. But the serious work work would totally be something I'm willing to commit many hours a week to in the future. I can imagine it's extremely rewarding as a significant job that helps others, working as a team... whenever I can work with the kind of dog that can handle the load. I honestly think that Lancer MIGHT have close to the acceptable level of working drive and tirelessness for the job (he's extremely treat and toy motivated and can have a very long attention span when I'm actively keeping up his endurance *facepalm*), but may simply not fit due to his fear-reactivity issues.

I did ask to try out a group setting first with Lancer to determine if he can focus in that environment, so I'll see what they say (if they do reply). From what I know about him, as long as the other dogs' crates are facing AWAY from us, he would be fine.

Thanks for the replies!

ETA: That said, not being a SAR dog... other types of detection work is still a possibility?

ETA again... this is unrelated and SAR doesn't apply to me and Lancer at this point anyway, but this made me laugh LMAO... Description of Lancer right here. PERFECT SAR DOG, RIGHT HERE, LADIES AND GENTS. (joking)

"Throw a ball into the bushes for your dog. How long does he look for it? If he gives up within a few minutes, chances are, your dog won’t make the cut. Does he perseverate on it for hours afterward, scratching at the door to get back out to continue looking, or crashing through the bushes looking for it, destroying your garden and digging up all your good dirt in the process?"

 

[Elrohwen]

I don't know much about other detection. I would assume narcotics would be done by professionals (police, etc) just because you need to go into court and testify and your dog better be on point so they can't call the find into question. But there might be other types. Some dogs on SAR teams do cadaver searching but that's kind of a simila environment to SAR, just slightly different training. I bet the people at that facility can give you a good idea of what's out there for volunteer teams

I think you'll be fine in a group class. I have seen some very reactive dogs train and trial successfully because the organization is so conscious of reactive dogs.