Little Question

Vega

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#62
panzer426 said:
yes it is our job to prevent as many hazards to our pets as possible and there are far more hazards that are beyond our control outside than there are inside. in the house your pet has a very small chance of getting hit by a car, getting in a fight with another animal, being hurt or killed or stollen by a human, being poisoned, being bitten by a venomous snake or insect, and the list goes on and on.
and dogs have no more ability to adapt to outdoor climates than we do. dogs get hot they pant, we get hot we sweat, same purpose and equally effective yet you would not be near as healthy if you spent 24 hours a day in the heat/cold outside. dogs are just as likely to develop a cold, pneumonia or frostbite as we are and they are just as likely to develop heat stroke and other heat related disorders as we are. if you disagree you are ignorant and horribly misinformed. and before you use the wolf argument...wolves, even in zoos and captivity where they have a balanced and garaunteed diet AND vet care, have lower life expectancies on average than an indoor dog.
Of course there is a low chance of getting hit by a car in a house, who gets hit inside the house by a car? You’re just listing types of accidents that happen outside. Your dog can be poison with cleaning products, chew on electronics, and still be stolen. In addition, you don’t keep your canine inside the house all day so the risk is still out there. In the world of possibilities, anything is possible. I’m not saying a dog can automatically adapt to the current weather, what I’m saying is that certain breeds have thick fur that helps them insulate far better. Another thing, we have to use common sense here. I’m not going to have an outdoor dachshund living in cold climate, which would be animal cruelty. There are just some breeds that can be outdoors and some that can’t because of human intervention. Wolf Argument? Well we always do go back to the wolf argument since we like to express ourselves that dogs need to be always close to their “pack.” There are some breeds that were created to be outside with the animals to guard.


I found this interesting in a similar argument on another forum.

"There are certain breeds that were bred to be outdoor dogs. The two I mentioned above, huskies, malamutes, a lot of the ovcharkas, just about any of the flock guards as that was what they were bred for to be outside with the flocks. Not many people have flocks inside their houses. At least I hope not. So a dog that was bred to do these jobs would be perfectly fine as an out door dog.
 
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Doberluv

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#63
If you'll indulge me, can we look back at the original post for a minute?

Just a little silly question, my canine companion sleeps in the garage every night.
Does it matter whether I leave the lights on or off? What would they prefer as canines? I don't know, I just kinda feel a litte bad when I turn off the light and see her looking at me with her doggie face, lol.
It appears that you're wondering if your dog is all right sleeping in the garage. You even ask about whether a light should be left on. She looks at you with her doggie face in such a way that it makes you feel badly.

Ok...This is not an argument about Huskeys or Malamutes who do relatively well in cold weather. Your dog is a GSD/Rott, right? These are dogs that were bred to work along side man. They need the companionship/training/direction/guidance in pretty high doses in order to be well adjusted. All domestic dogs to one degree or another ARE social creatures and like to spend a good deal of time with their people/families. If they were not like that, they would not have become domesticated the way they are.

So, in reference to your dog, it has been suggested that you try to spend whatever time you can with her in your enviornment, as a companion and try not to shut her away, at least not very much into a situation of isolation. Our dogs have to learn to spend a little time alone and that's fine, but I'm talking about including her in your life...in your home as much as possible. That's, I think what the main gist of this thread is saying.
 

panzer426

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#64
Im not just listing things that could happen outside. you said things can happen inside to hurt the dog such as chewing a power cord or ingesting poison. I said YES those can happen but indoor canine accidents are far less common and far less dangerous than outdoor accidents. most indoor dogs are far FAR less likely to ingest poison than an outdoor dog because most people who have indoor dogs keep poisons (detergents, deodorants, lighter fluid, drain cleaner etc) in places that would be difficult if not impossible for a dog to reach them. most people with indoor dogs are either watching them all the time or confine them to a seperate room or crate when they cannot keep a close eye on them. outdoor dogs (unless the owner lives outside with them) are open to many dangers. a neighbor could throw a peice of poisoned meat into the yard, sick people could shoot them, they could be stollen, they could escape and get hit by a car. an outside dog is at much more risk than a indoor dog in general.
yes, some breeds are happy as outdoor dogs. I have even stated that in THIS thread. gsd's and rottweilers are not those breeds unless they have been poorly raised, trained, socialized and/or abused. gsd's and rottweilers want to be around their people as much as possible, most of them would not be happier than in their owners lap on the couch. and besides the ignorance of arguing that some breeds of dog are happier outside, have you ever tried it to see where your dog is happier? have you ever allowed her to spend a full 24 hours in the house? try it and if she is happier outside then so be it.
 

Doberluv

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#65
My dogs would be super bored if they spent 24 hours indoors. And they all three have super short coats. We go for hikes in very cold weather here in north Idaho and during nice, sunny days in spring, summer and fall, as long as it's not exceedingly hot, they love hanging out on my deck sunning themselves or out lying around on the lawn, exploring a little in the woodsy places on my property... whether I'm out with them or inside doing chores. They're not with me 24/7. But they do come in and out as they please. I'm the door man. LOL. So dogs need our companionship, but they don't need us around them 24 hours a day. My dogs like a little space too. It's good for them. (just like a bunch of wolves. LOL. Sometimes they pack up and sometimes just one is observed hunting for small prey or just hangin out.) They're not constantly together.
 

keyodie

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#66
RD said:
Why does "different" have to mean "dumb"? I never saw Manchesters say that dogs were dumb.
I'm not talking about Manchesters! Shouldn't have just put
.


Oh and Vega, I didn't mean they are mentally the same in that way. I meant they can get angry like we do, they get jealous like we do, and things like that...hope you didn't misunderstand.
 

Vega

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#67
Doberluv said:
If you'll indulge me, can we look back at the original post for a minute?

It appears that you're wondering if your dog is all right sleeping in the garage. You even ask about whether a light should be left on. She looks at you with her doggie face in such a way that it makes you feel badly.

You’ve misinterpreted my question to a certain degree by dividing it in two questions. My only question was whether they prefer the lights on or off. I was describing the scenery not asking whether she should sleep directly inside the house or the garage.


Doberluv said:
Ok...This is not an argument about Huskeys or Malamutes who do relatively well in cold weather. Your dog is a GSD/Rott, right? These are dogs that were bred to work along side man. They need the companionship/training/direction/guidance in pretty high doses in order to be well adjusted. All domestic dogs to one degree or another ARE social creatures and like to spend a good deal of time with their people/families. If they were not like that, they would not have become domesticated the way they are.

So, in reference to your dog, it has been suggested that you try to spend whatever time you can with her in your enviornment, as a companion and try not to shut her away, at least not very much into a situation of isolation. Our dogs have to learn to spend a little time alone and that's fine, but I'm talking about including her in your life...in your home as much as possible. That's, I think what the main gist of this thread is saying.
German Shepherds are double-coated with a coarse, water-resistant outer coat and a heavy, woolly undercoat. They can take the cold but not like a Siberian husky or Malamute. Again common sense takes place here. You have to look at your environment and see if they will be all right in the type of climate you live in. I understand that it is better to have the canine inside close to you rather then keeping the canine distant. However, sometimes because of certain circumstances we cannot offer the main house to the canine pet. Therefore, we must make an effort to spend a considerable amount of time with your canine pet to compensate. This is what I’m arguing about; because your dog does not live directly inside the house, it does not automatically mean you are an unfit canine pet owner. A canine pet can live a happy life in a suitable outdoor environment. It’s true that statistically a canine pet that lives outside will be more likely to end up in an animal shelter then an outdoor canine. We shouldn’t judge someone so hastily and deemed them as unfit to own a dog because it mostly resides outside. You first need to evaluate from how he treats his pet and then judge whether he or she is a good pet owner. Now, I understand that certain breeds shouldn’t be kept outside at all (Like the toy breeds). In addition, the climate should also be a determination if it would be proper to have an outside canine pet.
 

Doberluv

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#68
I know about GSDs' coats as I've had GSDs for years.

Do you have a TV and computer outside? Do you cook outside? Do you wash your face and brush your teeth outside or vaccum, or wash dishes shower or get dressed outside? My dogs would be very unhappy if they couldn't watch Animal Plannet or the news, lie by my side when I'm on the computer, watch me cook and smell the smells, get a tasty tid bit while they're standing there. They would hate it if they couldn't watch me in the mirror while I brush my teeth or help me with my clothes when I'm getting dressed. My Chis and my Dobe love bringing my socks or taking them away....LOL. They wouldn't like it if they couldn't supervise my house cleaning and get in the way and attack my dust mop.

Even if they had the coats for it, if they were outside dogs, even if I spent a lot of time outside, it wouldn't be as much time as I spend inside. Well, in summer I really spend quite a bit of time outside and they are there with me helping me pull weeds, prune roses, mow and sunbathing with me. But when the chores are done outside and I'm tired, they come in and take a snooze with me on the couch. But they are my best friends, loyal to the end and I prefer their company over anybody's and they really thrive on my company, believe it or not. LOL.
 

Vega

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#69
Doberluv said:
I know about GSDs' coats as I've had GSDs for years.

Do you have a TV and computer outside? Do you cook outside? Do you wash your face and brush your teeth outside or vaccum, or wash dishes shower or get dressed outside? My dogs would be very unhappy if they couldn't watch Animal Plannet or the news, lie by my side when I'm on the computer, watch me cook and smell the smells, get a tasty tid bit while they're standing there. They would hate it if they couldn't watch me in the mirror while I brush my teeth or help me with my clothes when I'm getting dressed. My Chis and my Dobe love bringing my socks or taking them away....LOL. They wouldn't like it if they couldn't supervise my house cleaning and get in the way and attack my dust mop.

Even if they had the coats for it, if they were outside dogs, even if I spent a lot of time outside, it wouldn't be as much time as I spend inside. Well, in summer I really spend quite a bit of time outside and they are there with me helping me pull weeds, prune roses, mow and sunbathing with me. But when the chores are done outside and I'm tired, they come in and take a snooze with me on the couch. But they are my best friends, loyal to the end and I prefer their company over anybody's and they really thrive on my company, believe it or not. LOL.
Do you realize that canines are not human beings?

Does your dog go to the toilet? Wash his paws? Takes daily baths by himself?
Do you consult with your dog for financial decisions?
 

Fran27

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#70
Vega said:
Do you realize that canines are not human beings?

Does your dog go to the toilet? Wash his paws? Takes daily baths by himself?
Do you consult with your dog for financial decisions?
That doesn't mean that they don't want companionship. My dogs like their independence but they're really not happy when I put them in another room.
 

Fran27

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To be honest though... Just because they're not humans isn't a reason to just leave them on their own in the yard or in the garage all the time. I really don't know why people get a dog if it's to do that...
 

juliefurry

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#73
The thing is I don't think it is fair for this dog. I'm not going to criticize you or say you are wrong or right. How could you have gotten this dog knowing that he would not have been allowed inside because of all the shedding and him possibly destroying something. Dogs shed, if you wanted a dog that didn't shed than you should have gotten a poodle. Sometimes crap happens and things get broke. A game of fetch goes to far, and something gets knocked over. It's not the end of the world if something is broken, things can be replaced.
 

Doberluv

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#74
Thanks Fran. I'm glad someone can get me back on track. I tend to have a warped sense of humor.

In all seriousness.... the simple, scientifically based fact is Vega, that the domestic dog has evolved over about 30,000 years, has been genetically altered, selectively bred to be in a synergistic relationship with man. They are hard wired for it. That relationship has developed into a situation where humans become the dog's "surrogate" leader. A dog's leader is his provider of his resources, food, shelter, leadership. A dog is a social animal and needs a social order to survive and thrive. Without this, he is helpless. There are varying degrees of social interaction but there is a minimum level, whereby a dog will not thrive well. They are extremely personable and companionable. They instinctively seek this out as a means to adhere to this order that they require. We started out needing them to help us hunt, alert us to predators and it became a companionship over eons and in fact, with selective breeding, these dogs came to be intensely in need of companionship from us.

So, in other words, keeping a dog locked away from his family (pack, if you want to call it that) for too much of his day, is unnatural and goes against what is meant to be, how he is designed.... with a human being and his dog. Of course, they can be alone for some of the time. But too many hours in a day and they get lonely, pure and simple. And this lonliness threatens their survival, as far as their wiring goes or their intinctual design. They can become very uneasy.

I leave my dogs for several hours occasionally and most people leave their dogs more. And they're fine. But upon returning to our dogs after a long day away, it feels like an eternity to them that we've been gone and they're thrilled to see us. I couldn't greet my dogs like that and then go inside and leave them in a garage while I was home and perfectly able to hang out with them by my computer, by my couch with me, while I put my groceries away. They would hate it if they couldn't help me put the groceries away. Good heavens! There might be a suprise in there for them! LOL.
 

Doberluv

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#75
It's not the end of the world if something is broken, things can be replaced.
Boy Julie, did you ever hit the nail on the head. Their dear, little souls...and for all they give to us, how could we measure that in anything material???
 

juliefurry

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#76
Doberluv said:
Boy Julie, did you ever hit the nail on the head. Their dear, little souls...and for all they give to us, how could we measure that in anything material???
I really don't think you could. My dog has broken stuff a few times and they are just as upset about breaking something as we are about it getting broken. Things can be replaced unfortunetely your dog can't.
 
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Manchesters

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#77
Vega said:
Do you realize that canines are not human beings?

Does your dog go to the toilet? Wash his paws? Takes daily baths by himself?
Do you consult with your dog for financial decisions?
Of course they go to the toilet. Of course they wash their paws. No, they do not take daily baths.....dries out their coats. But many bathe at every opportunity in their water pan.

Of course the above questions are specious. Human babies do none of the above, yet we do not throw them outside to raise themselves and entertain themselves.
 

Doberluv

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#78
Human babies do none of the above, yet we do not throw them outside to raise themselves and entertain themselves.
Good post Manchesters! Gee wiz. My dogs have a daily bath. It's not a sponge bath, but a tongue bath. Paws, other important areas and sometimes their face. LOL. Toilet....check. Financial decisions? Check. My dogs are consulted a lot about my financial decisions. I ask them if they need a new bed, or some more Nyla bones and when they tell me that their beds are losing their former fluff, we look through the catalog together. When they show me their Nyla bone which is really not in good shape anymore, we add that to the grocery list. When I mention my daughter's name, they get so hyped up (they love her to death)....and tell me it's time to take another trip to Seattle. ($100.00 for gas now r.t.) So, I would say that they do help me to spend my money and what they need counts. LOL.
 

keyodie

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#79
Vega said:
Do you realize that canines are not human beings?
Well a dog might say, do you realize that humans are not canines? :D :p

Well so what if canines aren't human beings? Catepillars aren't snails, and birds aren't bannana plants. Humans and canines are both animals, so you should learn to respect your dog. At first I thought of the garage question a simple question, for I also put my dog in the garage at night during school days. But I still love my dog, I still try to treat him equal. I love him so much, I persuade my parents to let him inside during no-school days. But as I read your other posts, I see that you are not that way. You think your dog is just a dog. You think they are just animals that obey you when you say "sit" or animals that sleep all day and beg during dinner-time. I have said this before, but when I play with Charlie, I don't think of him as a dog. I think of him as a brother.
 

bridey_01

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#80
Canine pets (or devoted companions?)

Well, my "canine pets" would be terribly upset if they found themselves without house time. In fact, my canine pets would be so upset I would probably be in for rounds of barking and whining.
I think it is unfair to purchase a canine pet with no intention of actually living with it. Of course, I think the very term "canine pet" is unfair. They give us so much more than we could ever give them. They teach us empathy, they teach us how to communicate in a complex manner with a different species. They teach us patience and perserverence in training. They teach us to be more light hearted, to live in the moment. They are so much more than furry things with tails that have potential to break a vase or drop some hair.
 
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