Little Question

panzer426

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#41
cats are by nature solitary creatures, sure the lion is but if you know anything about cats you know that domestic cats share very few traits with lions, they are more like leopards, bobcats, tigers, and of course were domesticated through several of the small african cats such as the golden cat, or others depending on whos research you read. dogs were domesticated from wolves, some say african wild dogs (which through recent research we now know are a subspecies of wolf). nearly all species of wild dogs are pack animals, they live in mid-large sized tighly organized family groups and are rarely solitary. comparing cats to dogs gets you nowhere just about the only thing they have in common is that they are carnivores/predators. another reason you cant argue that an outside dog must be happy because outside cats are happy is because cats are not truly domesticated. the only alterations we have made to felines is appearance, we have not rerouted their instincts as we have with dogs (we took the predatory/hunt instinct and made it into herding, etc), dump a dog in the woods and it will survive for a while but will quickly die from exposure to elements, inability to hunt and so on; dump a cat in the woods and it will survive until a owl or coyote, heart worms or other enemy kills it, cats never lost their ability to hunt and survive on their own. personally I think cats should be kept indoors to protect them from dogs, cars, hawks, snakes, poisons, etc. also to prevent them from killing birds, if you think they should then why are you feeding them? a well fed cat will still kill and in many places they are decimating wildlife populations, not only the animals they kill but the natural predators who compete with them.
anyway, this topic is not about cats, you just cant use cats as an argument for outside dogs. outside dogs are more prone to problems, both health and temperament problems. you never did answer the question though...is there anything in the garage besides the dog and her things??? are you the only one with a garage door opener or do your family/roommates have one as well? are you also aware that 90% of home invasions start at the garage door? its the easiest point of entry.
 
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yuckaduck

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#42
It is easy for us all to jump up and down at you and personally I think dogs should be with their family but alas it is not always possible. I think you really love your canine and are doing the absolute best you can in your situation. I hope all works out for you and I also think the person who suggested that there is a fate worse than death was being very harsh if this is it. There are many many dogs tied up outside that are never palyed with or pet. Sometimes the only time they see a human is when they come to feed or fill up water dishes. How sad is that? At least you do spend time with your doggy and you care enough to ask for advice too. Good Luck.
 
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#43
Vega,

Chopper sleeps in my room in his crate. After the first couple of nights we had him, we put a nightlite in the bathroom, which is connected to my bedroom. It seems to help him settle in a little more at night. Hope that helps.

Amanda
 

RD

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#44
Just wanted to put in my .02... We had guard dogs on our cattle ranch, and every night, they slept in our 'atrium' on the far side of the house. Our dogs were not emotionally dying, they didn't care if they slept with us. In fact, some nights I would get in bed and call Buddy and Shiner, and invite them up on the bed. After about 30 seconds they started to squirm and jumped down to go to their REAL bed. They LIKED sleeping in their own 'den'.
So, I believe that as long as the owner does not neglect to provide the dog with the attention it needs, whether or not the dog sleeps with the owner makes little difference.

The two brats I have now? I'd never hear the end of it if I put them in the garage. LOL!
 

Doberluv

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#45
R.D....good post. There are lots of good posts here. Here's another one that caught my eye and I think is very good:
Vega, I guess I am in the minority here because I am NOT going to criticize the way you take care of your dog. Obviously you are a good pet owner from the info you've given.
I guess what you've failed to realize is that by posting here, you've fallen into a pack of dog fanatics (myself being one of them). The difference between you and the rest of us is that you view your dog as an animal and of lesser value than a human, while the rest of us see our dogs as our children or family members with equal value as a humans. Not to say that you are wrong for your views but feeling as we do (hoping nobody minds if I am speaking for them) it's just hard for us to fathom someone thinking that their dog is "just a dog". Hope that made sense.
Just the fact that you care if your dog is more comfortable with the lights on or off indicates to me that if given the chance, you could very well become a dog fanatic yourself with very little prodding.
I think if the dog is getting plenty of attention and companionship during the day, exercise, getting to be inside some of the time with the owner, then sleeping somewhere else, as long as it's safe and a good temperature, (which it sounds like it is) then I see nothing wrong with that. If the dog was ignored all day and excluded from it's humans, then that would be just one more item or excluding the dog. There is nothing wrong with the dog sleeping away from it's owners. Sure, it would be optimum if the dog slept in the house somewhere near by the owners, but this is not a "pound dog in training." That's really an exaggeration.

My dogs could not sleep in the garage. My Chi's sometimes sleep with me and sometimes sleep on the couch burrowed under a blanket. I have been keeping my window open and it's been getting chilly at nights, but since I'm always hot, it's great for me. LOL. Well, Lyric has his bed near the window on the floor by my bed and the this morning when I looked at him, he was curled up in a tight ball, shivering like crazy. Poor baby. Dobes are not a dog for outside or cold temps. I'll have to think of something else for tonight. Pretty soon it will get too cold to even have my window open. Then he'll be OK. He can, if he wants to go into the living room and be warmer on the couch with the Chi's and he does sometimes.

So, it does depend on the dog, their coats, their dependency on their owners. Some are more independent than others and couldn't care less where they sleep as long as they get ample attention and companionship at other times. My dogs are all extraordinary people dogs....what they were bred for makes them this way. (It couldn't be my spoiling them rotten could it?)
 

Vega

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#46
panzer426 said:
an outside dog CAN live a happy healthy life, but you will never convince the majority of this sites members, or the majority of true dog lovers in north america that many outside dogs DO have healthy (mental health), happy lives. Im not saying that no inside dog is unhealthy/unhappy or that no outside dog is healthy/happy, just that far more inside dogs who are included in ALL daily life of their owners are healthier and happier than the vast majority of outside dogs who are NOT included in ALL daily life of the owner/family. it also depends on the dog and his/her breed. I've known many malamutes, anatolians, and the 2 tibetan mastiffs I have known who were far happier outside but did enjoy the ability to come in when they felt like it. MOST dogs are completely and unarguably pack animals. left outside for very long alone and they get extremely bored, become more vocal and territorial, and in many many cases become hyper and/or destructive.
when someone says their dog lives outside most dog lovers automatically assume the owner is neglecting them, because to us our dogs are our children and we couldnt imagine our dogs not being allowed in our homes. I imagine nearly every member here would not own a dog if they couldnt have it in the house with them, and would instead wait until they could.
Hasty generalization.


keyodie said:
When I play with Charlie, I do not think of him as a dog, an animal, or a stupid being. I think of him as a human. A brother. There is basically no difference physically between a human and a dog except for their appearence and other obvious things. But we are all animals.

I put Charlie in the garage also, because my parents won't let him inside...I think they sleep better with the light off. I always turn the light off.


That does not make any sense, its a contradiction. Canines are different then human beings physically and mentally.



Fran27 said:
I'm not going to really take sides here, let's say that it depends on the dog. Mine would cry all night if they were not with me inside.

But it does seem to me by reading your post that you just didn't really do your research about dogs before getting one. Nothing irks me more than people who leave their dog outside because they don't want hair nor anything broken in the house. WHY get a dog then? It's like people who get cats but don't want them to scratch their $10.000 couch... I just want to slap them.

Speaking of cats, there is a big difference between an outdoor cat and an outdoor dog. Outdoor cats can usually come in anytime they want, and cats (most of them at least) are much more independent than dogs. So your argument isn't really valid.

Well of course there is going to be chewing. There has been chewing incidents outside of the house; however we already know that this kind behavior is going to occur. This is acceptable, pet canines do this.

The argument is indeed valid. It’s called preferential environment. Some owners strongly feel that a cat should be inside always and others rather have an in-outdoor cat. Here is the similarity; we have some owners here that say a cat should be inside and not outside. If I prefer my cats to be inside and told an owner who has semi-outside felines that his neglecting his animals because they are left outside, is this really true? Isn’t it really up to the owner where the cat should spend most of its time? We already know certain breeds of dogs are more independent then others.

This is the same thing: Why have a cat if it’s going to be outside?

Why not? Why is it any of your business? As long as the cat is healthy and in a safe environment that’s all it matters.


 
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panzer426

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#47
yes, the cat is healthy and in a safe environment is what matters but the FACT is that outside is not a safe environment for a cat. a dog? maybe if it is well cared for AND contained. no matter what type of fence you have you cannot contain a cat. it is far more liekly to catch a rodent that has eaten poison than if its inside. cats roam a lot and can and eventually will have a bad encounter with a car, dog, another cat, a human, a snake, a hawk or owl, a coyote, etc etc etc. outside is not a safe environment for a cat, there is no argument in that.
this topic is about outside DOGS. yes a dog can be safe and healthy outside and it is possible for an outside dog to be happy and I dont doubt that you are doing everything you can to make your dog happy. my point of view is simple...I cant imagine myself in a position where I would have a dog if it couldnt be inside with me. I can imagine myself in a position where I couldnt have an inside dog, thats easy, but in that position I would not have a dog. not saying you shouldnt have a dog, I just personally dont understand it because I would never be happy in that situation, and because no matter how happy they are/were outside, the 2 dogs I have right now and every dog I have had in the past would have been at best 1/4 as happy as outside dogs as they were as inside dogs.
 
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Manchesters

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#48
It is really very simple......dogs are "social" animals. They are happiest when in close contact with those they love. They are not "happy" when outside.......they sit and listen to every sound, 'hoping' the next sound will be the owner coming out to be with them.

And not to mention that dogs are VERY nosey, and want to be right in where all the action is.

We humans owe it to anything we have control over....children, pets, whatever, to provide the best we can. If WE are in the bloody house, then the animals should be also. Not left out in the heat and humidity, for flies to eat, or ants to bite: or in the cold to suffer. If a person lives where the temperature is about 75 degrees day and night, summer and winter, then yeah, maybe a dog wouldn't be too bad off outside. But how many people can afford and air conditioned, heated dog house????? BESIDES ME, THAT IS!!!! Roflmbo. I just realized as I typed that that essentially that is what MY dogs have. My home is their "kennel building", rofl.

Perhaps the kindest thing would have been to adopt Vega and then place her with someone you know who would left her live in, and you could be with any time you wanted??????

But at least you seem to be doing the best you CAN do at this point in time. It is just sad that you are in the position you are. For both of you.
 

Vega

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#49
panzer426 said:
yes, the cat is healthy and in a safe environment is what matters but the FACT is that outside is not a safe environment for a cat. a dog? maybe if it is well cared for AND contained. no matter what type of fence you have you cannot contain a cat. it is far more liekly to catch a rodent that has eaten poison than if its inside. cats roam a lot and can and eventually will have a bad encounter with a car, dog, another cat, a human, a snake, a hawk or owl, a coyote, etc etc etc. outside is not a safe environment for a cat, there is no argument in that.
this topic is about outside DOGS. yes a dog can be safe and healthy outside and it is possible for an outside dog to be happy and I dont doubt that you are doing everything you can to make your dog happy. my point of view is simple...I cant imagine myself in a position where I would have a dog if it couldnt be inside with me. I can imagine myself in a position where I couldnt have an inside dog, thats easy, but in that position I would not have a dog. not saying you shouldnt have a dog, I just personally dont understand it because I would never be happy in that situation, and because no matter how happy they are/were outside, the 2 dogs I have right now and every dog I have had in the past would have been at best 1/4 as happy as outside dogs as they were as inside dogs.
Then it’s clearly up to the individual. It's not animal neglection if it’s an outside pet. If it was, then why don’t agencies go after owners who keep pets outside?

There are dangers outside and inside! We have household chemicals that can kill our pets if consumed; they can chew on electrical devices and be seriously injured or killed. What makes a good owner is that you ensure that all dangers to the best of your power are kept away from your pet.
 

Vega

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#50
Manchesters said:
It is really very simple......dogs are "social" animals. They are happiest when in close contact with those they love. They are not "happy" when outside.......they sit and listen to every sound, 'hoping' the next sound will be the owner coming out to be with them.

And not to mention that dogs are VERY nosey, and want to be right in where all the action is.

We humans owe it to anything we have control over....children, pets, whatever, to provide the best we can. If WE are in the bloody house, then the animals should be also. Not left out in the heat and humidity, for flies to eat, or ants to bite: or in the cold to suffer. If a person lives where the temperature is about 75 degrees day and night, summer and winter, then yeah, maybe a dog wouldn't be too bad off outside. But how many people can afford and air conditioned, heated dog house????? BESIDES ME, THAT IS!!!! Roflmbo. I just realized as I typed that that essentially that is what MY dogs have. My home is their "kennel building", rofl.

Perhaps the kindest thing would have been to adopt Vega and then place her with someone you know who would left her live in, and you could be with any time you wanted??????

But at least you seem to be doing the best you CAN do at this point in time. It is just sad that you are in the position you are. For both of you.
Ridiculous, I don’t have fur like a canine to keep me warm! They are animals, adapt to living in outdoor environments. Our adaptation is to create things with our mental capacity to make everything around us suitable. They don’t have to! They have natural adaptations to the outdoor climate. If it was such a bad thing to keep a canine outside then why hasn’t an animal protection agency arrest me then?


It's true that a canine pet would prefer to be inside, however it’s not always possible. Just like its true that a canine pet would prefer to eat what we do but that’s not always possible.
 

panzer426

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#51
yes it is our job to prevent as many hazards to our pets as possible and there are far more hazards that are beyond our control outside than there are inside. in the house your pet has a very small chance of getting hit by a car, getting in a fight with another animal, being hurt or killed or stollen by a human, being poisoned, being bitten by a venomous snake or insect, and the list goes on and on.
and dogs have no more ability to adapt to outdoor climates than we do. dogs get hot they pant, we get hot we sweat, same purpose and equally effective yet you would not be near as healthy if you spent 24 hours a day in the heat/cold outside. dogs are just as likely to develop a cold, pneumonia or frostbite as we are and they are just as likely to develop heat stroke and other heat related disorders as we are. if you disagree you are ignorant and horribly misinformed. and before you use the wolf argument...wolves, even in zoos and captivity where they have a balanced and garaunteed diet AND vet care, have lower life expectancies on average than an indoor dog.
 

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#52
Manchesters is absolutely right in what she has said. Dogs are social animals, to say that they would "prefer" it to be in the house is a massive understatement. We actually have a term for behavioural problems directly related to dogs continuosly kept in an outside environment without direct acess to their people, "outside dog syndrome".
That's not to say that your dog should never be outside! My dogs spend ages outside, and they arn't perturbed by it because they have acess to me via the doggy door. I remember when I lived with my grandma for a week when I was a teenager. She had a kelpie and a saluki, both were "outside" dogs. I can vividly remember those dogs spending at least three quarters of their day staring through the window, pacing around the back door and whining to be let in. They would mob any visitor in the yard, not because they weren't visited often, but because they didn't enjoy free acess.
 
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bubbatd

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#53
Whew !!! I just got into this.... I was lucky...my goldens were inside/outside dogs on 8 wooded acres. The base of the house was actually our first cottage... the original carport was made into a garage which ended up being a dog area... for whelping, sleeping etc. There was a doorway Ieft open to the house. A twin sized bed plus quilts were in the area for those who prefered them or the the concert floor , bedding etc, but any or all were welcomed into out bedroom. All dogs, whether ours, visitors, boarder or rescues were welcomed to where they chose. The only off limits were for those in heat... who had double runs and special bedding ...whether they were mine or in for breeding. Yes, I kept a night light on in the garage...mainly for the visitors, who wouldn't wake up confused. At some points I'd have 12 goldens. They were family whether mine or not. And yes, my house was clean and I had antiques plus 3 kids. You are either a dog lover, or a dog owner. I don't put down those who choose to separate themselves from thier dogs. I just feel sorry for them and their dogs that they can't be family .
 

Doberluv

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#54
Good post Grammy and Bridey. Bridey, a doggie door sounds good. I envy you. I can't always allow my dogs out at certain times, depending on who's out there. Like if the propane guy comes I don't want them running out there and getting run over, so my dogs have a "doorman," like they hire at hotels...........me. LOL. the hinges on my door get a workout that would put Jane Fonda to shame. It's amazing they haven't disintegrated into a pile of archeological dust.

I do as I'm told.....they want to be inside, they're in. They want to go out, I don't keep them waiting. LOL.
 

bridey_01

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#55
Lol, Doberluv, it's not actually a doggy door, it's my bedroom window! It opens onto the balcony which leads to the backyard, so even when I'm dead tired I can kind of lurch over and yank open the window to get them out!
Of course, sometimes I lock them out. Got to have some free time to myself without them coming in and offering behaviours, hoping I have the clicker with me!
 
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Manchesters

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#56
Now Just A Minute!!!

panzer426 said:
yes it is our job to prevent as many hazards to our pets as possible and there are far more hazards that are beyond our control outside than there are inside. in the house your pet has a very small chance of getting hit by a car, getting in a fight with another animal, being hurt or killed or stollen by a human, being poisoned, being bitten by a venomous snake or insect, and the list goes on and on.
and dogs have no more ability to adapt to outdoor climates than we do. dogs get hot they pant, we get hot we sweat, same purpose and equally effective yet you would not be near as healthy if you spent 24 hours a day in the heat/cold outside. dogs are just as likely to develop a cold, pneumonia or frostbite as we are and they are just as likely to develop heat stroke and other heat related disorders as we are. if you disagree you are ignorant and horribly misinformed. and before you use the wolf argument...wolves, even in zoos and captivity where they have a balanced and garaunteed diet AND vet care, have lower life expectancies on average than an indoor dog.
I am the one that is expected to be harsh and mean to new posters. You are trying to steal my thunder!

This poor young person is doing the best available under the circumstances, and perhaps might have to rationalize the situation to keep from feeling to upset about not being able to have the dog with them.

However not all of the rationalizations are based in fact. If Vega were a Doberman, she would most definitely be unfit to stay outside in cold weather. Of course that depends on the area of the country.

Anyway.....as long as you do the best you can, that is all you can do.
 

Doberluv

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#57
A-w-w-w-w...Manchesters, That's so sweet. I knew you had it in you. LOL. Your thunder has moved into another spirit. You can retire now. ROFLOL!
 

keyodie

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#58
That does not make any sense, its a contradiction. Canines are different then human beings physically and mentally.
Obviously, to you it doesn't. :rolleyes: We're probably as dumb as you think they are in their opinions.
 

RD

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#59
keyodie said:
Obviously, to you it doesn't. :rolleyes: We're probably as dumb as you think they are in their opinions.
Why does "different" have to mean "dumb"? I never saw Manchesters say that dogs were dumb.
 

bridey_01

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#60
Dogs are mentally and physically different from humans. Isn't that pretty obvious? They arn't humans in fur suits (I'm still looking for the zipper:)) anthropomorphizing is dangerous, as assuming that dogs are human can lead to all sorts of troublesome behaviour.
 

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