Little Question

M

Manchesters

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#21
Well Now........

Vega said:

Pick who lives, a canines life or a humans life?

Is a hamster the equivalent to a humans life? On what basis do you judge what creature is equal in value?
I don't know many hamsters that would willingly lay down its life to save a human. But there sure have been lots of dogs that have done exactly that! And BOY.........did you make a boo-boo. I am NOT the person to ask who lives....dog or human, bwaahahahahah! People can take care of themselves......dogs can't. We owe them the responsibility we take on when we acquire them.

Look at the many, many people who faced death in Mississippi and N.O. because they would not leave their pets! So I ain't the ONLY nut on the bush!! I value dogs very much above humans!!!!!!! God will look out for the humans.....and He does pretty well at it. _I_ will look out for the dogs, and PRAY for the people!!!!!
 

Vega

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#22
Manchesters said:
What you have failed to realize is that my opinions and Ad hominums are based upon facts..........facts gleaned from living in constant physical contact with dogs for 30+ years. And yes, I said that I would move into the garage, and let the other occupants have their nice clean house! So yeah, I realize you don't have completele autonomy in this instance. And again, as I said.....phooey on them! Bunch of fuss pots!

What is with having a cat that can run away anytime it wants to?? Most people I know, their cats are inside animals. Of course, their cats are $4000-$5000 fur balls, lol.

So what about the TV??? And if you move into the room next to the garage, can she be in that room with you? That way she wouldn't have to traipse thru the house.

Lordy, I am so glad I do not have to cowtow to any other human being!!!!!!!! My home is my own, and my dogs. Well, actually, the house is the DOGS, and they keep me around to cater to their every need, heheheheheh! And that ain't no lie!!!!!!
Move next to her so she can sleep with me. Your facts? Well my facts say on the contrary. I have several friends who own inside and outside dogs, both are happy pets. In addition we previously owned a cocker spaniel that was a very happy dog till she died of old age. They are pets and not humans; we can certainly give them the comforts that we enjoy thou. You expectations for a suitable canine environment are above and beyond. A TV? That way it can rot the mind like it does to us? Hah, someone call animal humane society. A dog does not need to sleep next its owners every night to live a happy life. A dog needs love, food, health inspection, and exercise to live happily. They are animals, they have different needs then we do. All of which I provide. I take my dog every week to the mountains for hiking or camping. (Yes she sleeps right next to me when we go camping.) I take her to fast food restaurants, we go to the dog park like every day because I love dogs. I play with her before I go to work and after when I return from college. Someone once told me, “You act like you just got a new dog every single day.”

 
M

Manchesters

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#23
And I hope we can continue to simply have a bit of bantering, and verbal ping pong without anyone getting hurt feelings!!!! It is debates like this that make newsgroups fun. No personal insults, since we don't even really know each other.....just a bit of "Chain pulling" and such! So Vega please don't take anything to heart. I know you don't like your situation with the dog any better than we do. A little badgering in good spirit has never killed anyone! And lordy knows, I have already posted enough that you can badger right back at me!!!
 

Angelique

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#24
Well howdy! :D

My bedroom is the converted hay room in my barn...50 feet from the main house. My flock of 10 hens, are on the other side of the wall right next to me. I have heat and cable TV, they don't. :D

My dog has her own chair to sleep in, right by the entry door, sentry duty position!

After reading your story, I highly recommend the room next to the garage, if not the garage itself, if it means your could have a nest with dog included!

PS I used to have prissy and tidy habits, now I have pets! :)
 

Vega

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#25
Manchesters said:
I don't know many hamsters that would willingly lay down its life to save a human. But there sure have been lots of dogs that have done exactly that! And BOY.........did you make a boo-boo. I am NOT the person to ask who lives....dog or human, bwaahahahahah! People can take care of themselves......dogs can't. We owe them the responsibility we take on when we acquire them.
Certain dogs can. You base the value of a life on whether it can save a human’s life? Tell me, do you eat any products that come from pigs?

Manchesters said:
Look at the many, many people who faced death in Mississippi and N.O. because they would not leave their pets! So I ain't the ONLY nut on the bush!! I value dogs very much above humans!!!!!!! God will look out for the humans.....and He does pretty well at it. _I_ will look out for the dogs, and PRAY for the people!!!!!
A dogs life is more important then a child’s life? Saving your pet and not leaving it behind is a moral obligatory action. I assure you many of those who would not leave their pets behind were outside dogs. However, you have deemed them not to be good owners. I really don’t know what to say about your whole God thing.
 

Vega

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#26
panzer426 said:
assumptions??? nope not at all. those were questions. see in the english language there is a symbol we use to signify that something is a question rather than a statement, it is this one (?) so instead of getting upset about it, why not answer them?
what abut cats being able to run away??? where did that come from? well, my wife has a cat that we adopted for $25 from a shelter, he lives in the house and the only time he goes outside is in his crate to go to the vet. we also have 2 dogs, a gsd and a australian cattle dog mix who both live inside. if for any reason I couldnt keep them inside I would not even consider adopting an animal.
I'm not upset, another assumption. Some of my posts already have the answers. Let me explain again...

Exercise is everyday to even hardcore. We do daily walks and weekends we do adventure walks/hiking/camping/hang out with other dogs.

The whole garage is clean with no dangerous equipment. Section of the garage she sleeps in is very clean and no objects inside. Everything is locked away. I adopted a dog for to have a pet (She was also $25!), not to substitute for a human companion.

She does not chew on our stuff because she has a lot of toys that she favors. In addition, we keep everything away from her to avoid accidents. (Exmp. Destroyed shoes, consumption of household chemicals, sharp objects etc…)

I spend time with her everyday, playing games in our swimming pool or our garden. Having friends bring their dogs over so they can all play. Lastly, I regularly visit the local dog park.

 
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M

Manchesters

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#27
As A Matter Of Fact.........

Vega said:
Certain dogs can. You base the value of a life on whether it can save a human’s life? Tell me, do you eat any products that come from pigs?



A dogs life is more important then a child’s life? Saving your pet and not leaving it behind is a moral obligatory action. I assure you many of those who would not leave their pets behind were outside dogs. However, you have deemed them not to be good owners. I really don’t know what to say about your whole God thing.
Now that I think about it, I DON'T eat any pork products. Purely a coincidence.....I just am not that crazy about pork. Once or twice a year I might "pig" out on some raw maple flavored bacon. (Thought I was weird until my friend told me she eats raw bacon sandwiches with mayonaise on them! NOW THAT IS SICK, LOL!!!)

Let me explain my view point to you, rather than harranging about indoor vs. outdoor. A dog left unattended outside can get into all kinds of dangerous situations. We have snakes around here, fire ants, biting flies that eat the ears off of dogs left outside. We have misquitoes....great for West Nile. And also dogs can be stolen if left unattended in a a yard or be poisoned. They can also do neat stuff like eat bark off trees and end up with an intestinal obstruction.

If there is more than one dog, they can decide to get into a fight and kill each other. And then there are the lovely 95 degree temperatures, and the sand and humidity that tear up a dog's coat.

And ya know what?? I bet that if you did a survey, you would find out that 96%+ dogs in the shelters were kept as outside dogs!!!!!!! They do nifty things like jumping fences and taking off. They dig under fences and take off. Or they eat holes in fences and take off.

So, MY dogs stay inside with me. At night the boys go out into the yard apart from the girls. They are never more than 10 feet from me, and they have their own patio and beds in back. I sleep very fitfully.....awake every hour on the hour (diabetes=peeing all the time!) plus the girls alert me if one of the boys opens his mouth to bark. My yard is fenced separately from the rest of the property, so at night I will often take the boys out on lot 2 and play soccer with them. During the winter I do it any time of day or night.

The boys come in and stay in their crates during the heat of the day to sleep and stuff their faces with food. During the winter they spend the day out and come in at night if it gets cold. They are all safe and secure at all times.

Yard dogs are NOT happy well adjusted dogs. They are DOG POUND DOGS in training.
 

bridey_01

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#28
Have to say I agree with Manchesters here. I think calling a dog a "pet" is the biggest understatement you can make. Dogs are so much more than that, and it is rare to find an "outside" dog without behavioural problems. I live in Australia, and there is an ENDLESS list of things that can kill and maim dogs. Snakes are an enourmous threat, I recently spent over six hundred dollars rehabilitating my cat after he got bitten by a small eyed snake. Of course, being stolen or escaping are constant worries, I've known dogs that can jump/climb ten foot high fences.
It's fine to say "I spend heaps of time with my dog" before she is locked up/put outside, but dogs like to spend regular time with us, observing our activities and joining in. I spend so much time "curing" behavioural problems that could be much more easily (and cheaply!) cured by simply installing a doggy door and letting the dog inside.
Then again, my dogs are spoiled rotten. They sleep on my bed, eat only human grade food (aside from training kibble), come EVERYWHERE with me and are rarely excluded from the house.
 

Vega

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#29
bridey_01 said:
Have to say I agree with Manchesters here. I think calling a dog a "pet" is the biggest understatement you can make. Dogs are so much more than that, and it is rare to find an "outside" dog without behavioural problems. I live in Australia, and there is an ENDLESS list of things that can kill and maim dogs. Snakes are an enourmous threat, I recently spent over six hundred dollars rehabilitating my cat after he got bitten by a small eyed snake. Of course, being stolen or escaping are constant worries, I've known dogs that can jump/climb ten foot high fences.
It's fine to say "I spend heaps of time with my dog" before she is locked up/put outside, but dogs like to spend regular time with us, observing our activities and joining in. I spend so much time "curing" behavioural problems that could be much more easily (and cheaply!) cured by simply installing a doggy door and letting the dog inside.
Then again, my dogs are spoiled rotten. They sleep on my bed, eat only human grade food (aside from training kibble), come EVERYWHERE with me and are rarely excluded from the house.

Because your dog sleeps indoor does not mean it's in a suitable environment. For example, I know two families who own dogs that live inside and are bad owners.

Family X has two heavily obese border collies; they rarely get any exercise and are usually not given much attention to at the house. Yet they still live inside, are these good owners? My girlfriend once spent the night there and ended up with flea bites on her leg.

Family Y has three canine pets that live inside. A boxer/great dane mix, shepherd mix, elderly poodle that do not get any exercise. The female shepherd mix is overweight. They drink out of a large metal tray that has algae growing. The house is very smelly because they also have reptilian pets.

These two families are neglecting them exercise, and endangering their health.

Let us look at the primary criteria for suitable Canine Pet Environment:

1. Food & Clean Water
2. Love & Attention
3. Health Inspection/Checkups
4. Exercise
5. Safe Environment that the canine will be living in.

These families fall short on #1, #2, #4 and possibly #5.

Let us look at how I fair:

-We play in the morning before I go to work, afternoon: come back from work & night: I come back from college. (Daily Walks and I take her with me to get food)
-Weekends we go camping, hiking, running & multi-dog activities.
-She sleeps inside to a certain degree. (Hallway & Garage is inside.)
-Her environment is safe.
-Given Food (Kibbles, Cooked Meat) & Water (Purified Water)
-Given plenty of toys to entertain her, not to mention all the little animals she chases.
-Always given her checkups/health inspections and prevention medication such as fleas, heartworms etc..

Conclusion, I have no behavior problems and she is perfectly healthy.
 
M

Manchesters

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#30
Ah......But You Forgot

Vega said:
Because your dog sleeps indoor does not mean it's in a suitable environment. For example, I know two families who own dogs that live inside and are bad owners.

Family X has two heavily obese border collies; they rarely get any exercise and are usually not given much attention to at the house. Yet they still live inside, are these good owners? My girlfriend once spent the night there and ended up with flea bites on her leg.

Family Y has three canine pets that live inside. A boxer/great dane mix, shepherd mix, elderly poodle that do not get any exercise. The female shepherd mix is overweight. They drink out of a large metal tray that has algae growing. The house is very smelly because they also have reptilian pets.

These two families are neglecting them exercise, and endangering their health.

Let us look at the primary criteria for suitable Canine Pet Environment:

1. Food & Clean Water
2. Love & Attention
3. Health Inspection/Checkups
4. Exercise
5. Safe Environment that the canine will be living in.

These families fall short on #1, #2, #4 and possibly #5.

Let us look at how I fair:

-We play in the morning before I go to work, afternoon: come back from work & night: I come back from college. (Daily Walks and I take her with me to get food)
-Weekends we go camping, hiking, running & multi-dog activities.
-She sleeps inside to a certain degree. (Hallway & Garage is inside.)
-Her environment is safe.
-Given Food (Kibbles, Cooked Meat) & Water (Purified Water)
-Given plenty of toys to entertain her, not to mention all the little animals she chases.
-Always given her checkups/health inspections and prevention medication such as fleas, heartworms etc..

Conclusion, I have no behavior problems and she is perfectly healthy.
The IMPORTANT, VITAL things such as colored television, access to the refrigerator, soft bedding such as sofa/chairs. Air conditioned comfort in summer, and warmth in winter. As well as their own TV Guide, and most importantly access to ME any time of the day or night they want it....at least for the girls. The boys don't want to spend that much time with me because they are sure I am going to inflict tortures upon them.....cutting nails, scaling teeth, giving Ivomec and the like. They are perfectly happy to just have me play soccer and tennis bally with them out on lot 2, rofl. Not that they don't TRUST me, you understand, heheheheh.

I know you do the very best you can for Vega. It is just a shame that circumstances prevent you from having the joy of flopping down on the bed with your dog beside you etc.

I get a kick out of the style you use when you post. Very succint and direct. Sooooo much like my friend of 50 years. She is from Holland, and I have noticed that many folks from that area are rather brusque and to the point when they speak!

Ah well......back to my chair so the girls can pile on and make me their water bed once again. I had to laugh.....I have my Tivo on STANDBY, and it just shows a blue screen on the TV. Little Lucy Goose was perched on my shoulder (leaning against the high back of my recliner) and staring intently at the TV! She couldn't seem to figure out why she couldn't see anything moving!!!!! She doesn't really "watch" the tv like some dogs do, but she seems to enjoy seeing the movement. Well, she just kept staring.....she just KNEW that eventually SOMETHING would move, rofl. Finally she couldn't keep her eyelids open anymore, and collapsed down on my shoulder and went to sleep.

They live SUCH hard lives, lol.

What are you majoring in college?
 
Y

yuckaduck

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#31
If these people are so bothered and want the dog to not shed why not shave him? Why not vaccum daily, if that is what it takes? To me leaving a dog outside or away from the family is hard. I threatened to keep Yukon outside when we had behavioural problems but I just could not do it. I set up a room for him inside. Even that it is hard to put my baby in that room, dogs are meant to be part of the family and part of the pack.
 

Vega

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#32
yuckaduck said:
If these people are so bothered and want the dog to not shed why not shave him? Why not vaccum daily, if that is what it takes? To me leaving a dog outside or away from the family is hard. I threatened to keep Yukon outside when we had behavioural problems but I just could not do it. I set up a room for him inside. Even that it is hard to put my baby in that room, dogs are meant to be part of the family and part of the pack.

4 Groomers strongly advise me not shave her. Basically it will mest up her fur. We do vacuum everyday.
 
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#33
Vega, I guess I am in the minority here because I am NOT going to criticize the way you take care of your dog. Obviously you are a good pet owner from the info you've given.
I guess what you've failed to realize is that by posting here, you've fallen into a pack of dog fanatics (myself being one of them). The difference between you and the rest of us is that you view your dog as an animal and of lesser value than a human, while the rest of us see our dogs as our children or family members with equal value as a humans. Not to say that you are wrong for your views but feeling as we do (hoping nobody minds if I am speaking for them) it's just hard for us to fathom someone thinking that their dog is "just a dog". Hope that made sense.
Just the fact that you care if your dog is more comfortable with the lights on or off indicates to me that if given the chance, you could very well become a dog fanatic yourself with very little prodding. :D
 
M

Manchesters

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#34
Not Really

Vega said:

4 Groomers strongly advise me not shave her. Basically it will mest up her fur. We do vacuum everyday.
I wouldn't mess up her coat as far as growing back is concerned. But she really doesn't have a long enough coat to be able to clip and do anything with. Maybe you could get her out in the yard a couple times a week with the hair dryer, and brush and BLOW the hair out of her????? Also, using a shedding blade on a coat like that will take tons of hair out! (Shedding blade like they use for horses. I have also from time to time used a hacksaw blade bent around with the ends tied together. However the shedding blades have nice comfortable handles.) And the side of the blade without the teeth is great for scraping water off dogs after you bathe them!
 
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#35
it must be lonely in the garage, all my guys have the comfort of my couch,chair and floor if they decide. they sleep in my childrens beds, at night, i never have any chewing or mess, my dogs actually look forward to bedtime. if we are late to get some shut eye, the dogs site by the stairs and wait and watch.
 

Vega

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#36
thewhitewitchone said:
Vega, I guess I am in the minority here because I am NOT going to criticize the way you take care of your dog. Obviously you are a good pet owner from the info you've given.
I guess what you've failed to realize is that by posting here, you've fallen into a pack of dog fanatics (myself being one of them). The difference between you and the rest of us is that you view your dog as an animal and of lesser value than a human, while the rest of us see our dogs as our children or family members with equal value as a humans. Not to say that you are wrong for your views but feeling as we do (hoping nobody minds if I am speaking for them) it's just hard for us to fathom someone thinking that their dog is "just a dog". Hope that made sense.
Just the fact that you care if your dog is more comfortable with the lights on or off indicates to me that if given the chance, you could very well become a dog fanatic yourself with very little prodding. :D
It is quite evident of how the general feeling in this canine enthusiast forum about the outside dog lifestyle. However, accepting the argument for an inside dog because of a popular belief in this forum would be a fallacy. Rather, I have use logical reasoning to make my argument on how outside dogs can indeed enjoy a happy life. A canine euthanized or outside lifestyle, the latter would be favorable. Of course, the canine pet would have to have a suitable lifestyle and the owner would meet all the criteria to provide for the canine.
 

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#37
an outside dog CAN live a happy healthy life, but you will never convince the majority of this sites members, or the majority of true dog lovers in north america that many outside dogs DO have healthy (mental health), happy lives. Im not saying that no inside dog is unhealthy/unhappy or that no outside dog is healthy/happy, just that far more inside dogs who are included in ALL daily life of their owners are healthier and happier than the vast majority of outside dogs who are NOT included in ALL daily life of the owner/family. it also depends on the dog and his/her breed. I've known many malamutes, anatolians, and the 2 tibetan mastiffs I have known who were far happier outside but did enjoy the ability to come in when they felt like it. MOST dogs are completely and unarguably pack animals. left outside for very long alone and they get extremely bored, become more vocal and territorial, and in many many cases become hyper and/or destructive.
when someone says their dog lives outside most dog lovers automatically assume the owner is neglecting them, because to us our dogs are our children and we couldnt imagine our dogs not being allowed in our homes. I imagine nearly every member here would not own a dog if they couldnt have it in the house with them, and would instead wait until they could.
 

keyodie

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#38
When I play with Charlie, I do not think of him as a dog, an animal, or a stupid being. I think of him as a human. A brother. There is basically no difference physically between a human and a dog except for their appearence and other obvious things. But we are all animals.

I put Charlie in the garage also, because my parents won't let him inside...I think they sleep better with the light off. I always turn the light off.
 

Angelique

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#39
Sometimes dogs just prefer to be outside, too. My last dog, Mia, couldn't stand it in the house. She liked laying out on the deck, watching me work at my desk through the window. As long as I was nearby, she was fine. She was a big dog with a heavy coat, so the house was an uncomfortable place for her. She liked it outside, where it was nice and cool! :)
 

Fran27

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#40
I'm not going to really take sides here, let's say that it depends on the dog. Mine would cry all night if they were not with me inside.

But it does seem to me by reading your post that you just didn't really do your research about dogs before getting one. Nothing irks me more than people who leave their dog outside because they don't want hair nor anything broken in the house. WHY get a dog then? It's like people who get cats but don't want them to scratch their $10.000 couch... I just want to slap them.

Speaking of cats, there is a big difference between an outdoor cat and an outdoor dog. Outdoor cats can usually come in anytime they want, and cats (most of them at least) are much more independent than dogs. So your argument isn't really valid.
 

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