I thought we had progressed farther than this, at least.

ravennr

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#1
At the VERY least.
http://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/qxn1c/birthday_girl/

Scroll through the comments, you'll know when you've hit the sea of bullcrap.

There are veterinarians in this thread insinuating we are killing our animals...
And this is not just down to raw, either, Oh no. Look at the comments, these are people saying corn is fine and normal, and that dogs have been created to eat kibble. This is people denying the influence of pet food companies on vets, despite how many vets and vet techs have admitted to all those Hill's freebies.

I am stunned. I can't even have an intelligent discussion anymore about ANY animals, on ANYTHING if I'm not on an animal forum or with someone who is either open-minded or already in-the-know or dedicated to their animals (and this makes ME feel crazy, which it definitely should NOT!), because the world is so full of crazies! I got messages saying I should have my cat put down or rehomed so he doesn't have to suffer from the 'long-term effects of being fed raw meat because you were too lazy to cook it'. :rofl1:

I know I know. But still. It just ... whoa.


At any rate, that dog had a **** good birthday! :cool:
Sure hope she doesn't die. :rolleyes:
 

ravennr

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#5
if you're a cow

those people would really be butt hurt to know i've raised several dogs on roadkill & they would eat it for a few days AFTER it got gamey w/o any ill effects.
Sounds like how my grandparents raised their dogs. The only kibble they'd buy was Ol Roy, but luckily, they fed MOSTLY raw meats for decades to the hunting dogs. I didn't know it at the time, but I realize now (even if they didn't) that the meat helped along in keeping them in tip top shape and healthy! They also seemed to live forever.

There was one dog there that only ate lightly seared meats and such. I never knew how old he was, but he was aroundfor at least 15 years of my life, and my mom said he'd been there before I was born too. Energetic, happy dog. Right up to his death. I don't think anyone knew how old he really was, though. Just old.
 
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mutts

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#8
I feed my dog high quality kibble. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
I have seen dogs get very sick and even die on a raw diet but I've also seen dogs get really sick on kibble and die.
It should be judged on a case by case basis not a generalized one.
I never try to force my opinions on anyone concerning kibble and I don't like it when raw fanatics do it to me either.
There are most certainly pros and cons to kibble AND raw.
I feed my dog Acana and shes doing very well on it. I also introduce other foods as well--
Natural Balance, Orijen, Blue Wilderness, Now and Go (a few others but I can't remember).
Is raw better then ol Roy, dog chow, or pedigree- yes. Is it better then the high quality brands- I'm not so sure.
 
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#11
There are very few blanket statements about nutrition that hold true for every individual, and there are a lot more opinions and anecdotes about food floating around than solid facts.

Honestly food nazis on either side - "corn (or whatever food/ingredient) is always evil" OR "corn (or whatever) is great for everyone!" - make me :rolleyes: equally.
 
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#12
if you're a cow

those people would really be butt hurt to know i've raised several dogs on roadkill & they would eat it for a few days AFTER it got gamey w/o any ill effects.
not even if you're a cow. Cows are done a favor when they are slaughtered after being pumped full of corn.
 

Pops2

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#13
Or if you're an organism that requires ingestion of calories from an outside source rather than photosynthesizing or the like.
corn isn't good for anything that isn't 100% herbivore (except in very small quantities). a study comparing first nations skeletons in florida before & after spanish occupation showed it all very well. they found thay once the spanish enslaved them & put them on a diet of mostly corn & beans they developed widespread issues w/ malnourishment & diabetes. i don't completely understand how they did it but it was determined from the bones. coincidentaly the rise in diabetes in the USA closely parallels the food industry's switch from cane & beet sugar to corn syrup.
they (first nations in florida) had previously consumed a lot of seafood & gathered heavily from native plants. no evidence of diabetes or significant widespread malnourishment could be found prior to spanish occupation.
in NC they have been finding evidence of similar health issues in black bears being fed corn.
there is also some indication that the increase in canine health issue's parallel the use of corn as the bulk ingredient of kibble & the wider use of kibble.
 

Pops2

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#14
There are very few blanket statements about nutrition that hold true for every individual, and there are a lot more opinions and anecdotes about food floating around than solid facts.

Honestly food nazis on either side - "corn (or whatever food/ingredient) is always evil" OR "corn (or whatever) is great for everyone!" - make me :rolleyes: equally.
i think corn has it's place, but that place is NOT as the primary food source for a carnivore.
 
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mutts

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#15
Corn is actually not good for cows either. Cows require grass or hay not corn. The only reason they feed corn is because it's cheap and it fattens the cow up VERY quickly.
I don't agree with corn in dog food. Theres nothing good about that. It causes a lot of allergies.
 

~Jessie~

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#17
I feed my dog high quality kibble. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
I have seen dogs get very sick and even die on a raw diet but I've also seen dogs get really sick on kibble and die.
It should be judged on a case by case basis not a generalized one.
I never try to force my opinions on anyone concerning kibble and I don't like it when raw fanatics do it to me either.
There are most certainly pros and cons to kibble AND raw.
I feed my dog Acana and shes doing very well on it. I also introduce other foods as well--
Natural Balance, Orijen, Blue Wilderness, Now and Go (a few others but I can't remember).
Is raw better then ol Roy, dog chow, or pedigree- yes. Is it better then the high quality brands- I'm not so sure.
What? :confused:

Dogs don't have the ability to cook their food (they kind of lack the opposable thumbs and the ability to create fire). Of course raw meat is the best diet for them- they're carnivores. They're BUILT to eat raw meat. There's a reason why they don't have the ability to grind with their jaws- they're meant to rip and tear flesh. The only way a dog could die from a raw diet is if the meat was tainted or they were deathly allergic to the protein source.

Dogs are meant to eat meat. It's not my opinion. It's a fact.

Kibble has only been around for the last 60 or so years. It was created as a cheap and convenient way to feed your dog. Of course, there are MANY great brands of kibble out there. Orijen and Acana are great brands. But I wouldn't say that they are better than raw.
 
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mutts

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#18
Jessie-- that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I agree that kibble isnt food in its most natural form but it is formulated to have proper vitamins/minerals that don't require supplementation (unlike raw).
Your saying raw is "natural" yet you have to add a million different things so that it's nutritionally appropriate.... what's natural about that?
There is also nothing natural about a dog sleeping in a house on a human bed. There's nothing natural about a dog being fenced, chained, leashes, or crated. There's nothing natural about a dog being FED its meals. Will you stop doing these things as well because they are unnatural??
Not to be extreme but let your dog go free to hunt its own meals and then we can discuss "natural". There is literally NOTHING natural (to a dog) about dog ownership. This is how I personally feel on this matter.
 
M

mutts

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#19
Also-- holistic vets that DO recommend raw feeding will tell you that you should not NOT feed raw to an elderly or immuno compromised dog. What do you fall back on then???
Hmmm.... high quality kibble?
 

~Jessie~

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#20
Jessie-- that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I agree that kibble isnt food in its most natural form but it is formulated to have proper vitamins/minerals that don't require supplementation (unlike raw).
Your saying raw is "natural" yet you have to add a million different things so that it's nutritionally appropriate.... what's natural about that?
There is also nothing natural about a dog sleeping in a house on a human bed. There's nothing natural about a dog being fenced, chained, leashes, or crated. There's nothing natural about a dog being FED its meals. Will you stop doing these things as well because they are unnatural??
Not to be extreme but let your dog go free to hunt its own meals and then we can discuss "natural". There is literally NOTHING natural (to a dog) about dog ownership. This is how I personally feel on this matter.
A million different things? Huh? I don't know anyone who adds a million different supplements to raw!

I only add salmon oil. Sometimes I'll add raw egg. I don't consider that to be a supplement, though- just part of their diet.

Dogs aren't "natural," but they still haven't evolved to the point where kibble is what they need to eat. They still have the same digestive system of a typical carnivore.
 

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