I need help...

[Crowsfeet]

If someone told me they thought that the money I was asking for could go to much better use, and this project was over my head, without using derogatory language and attacking me, I MIGHT listen.

I think it's as simple as this.

 

[SevenSins]

it's unethical to feed live rodents. Period.

Which would be why most of us buy prekilled or kill our own. But never say "period." There are some snakes that will absolutely not eat unless you either feed live, or force feed. "Period." I don't know about you, but I try to avoid having to force feed hots very often.

 

[sillysally]

1. They aren't HER personal animals. They are rescue animals that she is trying to find new, permanent homes for. She's not trying to get other people to pay for HER pets, any more than people who find a pit bull that's been set on fire and want donations for their surgeries are trying to get you to pay for their personal animals.

2.
Quite frankly, what everyone else does or doesn't do =/= your posts making you sound like any less of an ass. I don't agree with A LOT of things on this forum that you also don't agree with, and I still find many of your posts extremely rude and uncalled for.

You don't have to make someone out to be some kind of completely off-the-wall moron in order to tell them you don't think what they're doing is right. If I was in the OP's place and someone told me I should stop trying to be a "bleeding heart" and begging for money for "MY" animals, I'd tell them to f*** off, too.

If someone told me they thought that the money I was asking for could go to much better use, and this project was over my head, without using derogatory language and attacking me, I MIGHT listen.

This. Good grief.

 

[Crowsfeet]

Euthanizing a RAT involves either gassing, or shoving a needle into their heart. They'll usually ask you to leave the room when they do this because the animal typically screams in pain when this happens. And then they get tossed out with the rest of the bio-trash.

Actually, yes. What is up with you?
Do you actually have reputable information?


I researched vets in my area who I know use a small-animal sized gassing-chamber, not a mask, or needle, because it's the most humanely known method. They also let me keep my passed pet.. and while I understand "throwing them away" is an "option", most veterinarians will not do that if asked otherwise.

This information is widely available online, in most forums, articles, and otherwise. Have you ever actually had domestic rats in your possession or care? Or is this just a lot of assuming or vicarious experience?




Your blatant disregard for life, patience, and your volatile attitude toward this discussion do in fact, make you sound like an ass.

 

[SevenSins]

1. They aren't HER personal animals. They are rescue animals that she is trying to find new, permanent homes for. She's not trying to get other people to pay for HER pets

Well considering she runs this "rescue" operation and nobody in their right mind is going to shell out all manner of cash for a disease-infested, temperamentally unsound petstore rat, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that yes...they're her animals.

If I was in the OP's place and someone told me I should stop trying to be a "bleeding heart" and begging for money for "MY" animals, I'd tell them to f*** off, too.

Good, and if you showed up on the forum with 40 animals you had no way of caring for properly I'd tell you the same thing. At least I can feed and vet mine.

 

[Crowsfeet]

Which would be why most of us buy prekilled or kill our own. But never say "period." There are some snakes that will absolutely not eat unless you either feed live, or force feed. "Period." I don't know about you, but I try to avoid having to force feed hots very often.

I'm aware some snakes find it very difficult(as per the reference to "conversion" in my post). Some rat caretakers lobby that the snake should be humanely euthanized. At that point, it's up to the beholder of the animal, obviously.


And yes, period, as that is my personal viewpoint on the matter, at the moment. Subject to change with further information or experience.

 

[Crowsfeet]

Well considering she runs this "rescue" operation and nobody in their right mind is going to shell out all manner of cash for a disease-infested, temperamentally unsound petstore rat

You'd be infinitely surprised.



The folks at Goosemoose respond to situations like this all of the time. They treat rats as ethically as they can manage, while supporting their reputation and lobbying for the ethical conditions of welfare and care for all domestic animals - be it a dog or a rat.


Just some examples:

"Star's Rat Rescue located in Winner, South Dakota currently has over 30 ratties for adoption! Transportation is possible to many areas and surrounding states like SD, MN, NE, ND, WY and even IA!"
http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?topic=4099568.0

"Thirty rats need homes. In October, Melissa got two rats from a pet store and they unexpectedly gave birth to 28 babies. These rats are now 9 months old plus the mother rats and all must be relocated as soon as possible due to family circumstances. " - Brooklyn, NY



EDIT: OP, I do see your post on their, now(BreezyPitBull, I imagine). You should edit that in a more bonafide way, and there is a person there asking for two females. I would also send more emails to rescues. I would also transfer the same, new and bonafide post to the RatsPacNW group located on Yahoo - http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RatsPacNW/

These people also pull together to transport, a lot. I received two boys from a breeder in Canada who brought them to me in Tacoma, WA a while ago, and I see frequent posts for rescues, donations, and the like.

 

[SevenSins]

This information is widely available online, in most forums, articles, and otherwise. Have you ever actually had domestic rats in your possession or care? Or is this just a lot of assuming or vicarious experience?

I used to raise fancy rats as a hobby, and feed rats for herps. I've seen my fair share of rodents euthanized by vets, which is why I much prefer to kill my own. And sure, like I said, they don't "have" to be thrown out with the bio trash, we could ask for donations to have them individually cremated.

I'm aware some snakes find it very difficult(as per the reference to "conversion" in my post). Some rat caretakers lobby that the snake should be humanely euthanized.

Yep, let's euthanize a snake for requiring to be fed in the most natural way possible for it. This is the part where I tell you that I have a very deep hatred for "furmommies."

 

[Crowsfeet]

I used to raise fancy rats as a hobby, and feed rats for herps. I've seen my fair share of rodents euthanized by vets, which is why I much prefer to kill my own. And sure, like I said, they don't "have" to be thrown out with the bio trash, we could ask for donations to have them individually cremated.

Or you can just ask for them in return, and respectfully bury them - also an arguably more sustainable action?


Stop assuming, it just hurts conversation.

Also, if that's what was happening, you were approaching the wrong veterinarian.


PS. There's nothing "natural" about putting two animals in an enclosure where they fight to the death. That's also illogical.

I'm going to pretend to not know what a furmommy is, for my the sake of my own mental clarity.




Why don't we speculate for a moment, that rats aren't very far away from dogs, or for that matter, any other living creature. And that they don't have a stigma as being a lesser degree living being because they've often been pegged as food for one other animal in the world of animal husbandry.

 

[kady05]

FWIW, I still think the rats with the mammary tumors should be PTS, at the very least. A euthanasia is going to cost a lot less than a spay (well, it would in my area anyway).

Sure the people on Goosemoose can be very helpful (I used to be a member there as well), but not many people are going to be willing or able to adopt a rat with tumors, or a rat that's aggressive toward other rats (and I'll still stand by my statement that neutering does NOT always magically cure that).

It's kind of like if a dog is DA, those dogs are notoriously hard to adopt out. And these are rats. There's a significantly smaller audience of people who want to adopt rats.. especially when you can just go buy one at the pet store for $10 (and this is coming from someone who drove 5hrs. to get my rats from a breeder, AND had the males all neutered).

FWIW, when I was younger, the vets I went to did euthanize using the heart stick method.. it wasn't very pleasant. As I got older and learned more, I went to a vet that gassed them down and then euth'd them, much easier on everyone involved.

 

[Crowsfeet]

FWIW, I still think the rats with the mammary tumors should be PTS, at the very least. A euthanasia is going to cost a lot less than a spay (well, it would in my area anyway).

Sure the people on Goosemoose can be very helpful (I used to be a member there as well), but not many people are going to be willing or able to adopt a rat with tumors, or a rat that's aggressive toward other rats (and I'll still stand by my statement that neutering does NOT always magically cure that).

It's kind of like if a dog is DA, those dogs are notoriously hard to adopt out.. but that's a dog. These are rats. That's a lot smaller of an audience which is going to make it 10x harder.

As difficult as it is, I would agree that this sounds as though it's compassionate, reasonable thinking.

 

[Tahla9999]

Your in school and jobless with all these sick, damage animals where more than half have very little chance of being adopted. I hate to say it, REALLY hate to say it, but some of those animals might have to be put to sleep. I understand wanting to save them all. I picked up so many stray animals in my younger days that my parents told me point blank, no more. If there is a chance I could help an animal, I would. But there is a thing about that though. There is a limit. As much as I wanted to save every animal that needed help, I have limits on it. There is a financial limit. There is a room limit. There is a limit on how much I can handle. There is a limit on how much the animals can handle while they are being "saved." No matter how many times I wanted to save this animal or that, I needed to step back and think first. Is this rescued animal going to stay with me or not? If yes, can I afford to keep this animal long term, or if I plan to adopt the animal out, is the animal adoptable? Do I have the time to take care of it? Last but not least, is it the best home for this animal?

Having all those animals who all need individual attention, all need their cages clean out, and many of them have medical problems that are beyond your pocket book, and you have to go to school and study hard for a better life, you need to ask yourself what is best for them and what is best for you. You need to ask yourself, even if you are able to collect the money for the animals vet bills this time, what about if it happens again? What if the animals get sick again, are you going to be able to constantly afford it? What if your out of luck with getting the rats adopted, are you prepare to keep them all? What if you have to move, what happens to the animals?

I know this is a hard decision for you and no one would want to be in this position. Whatever you decide to do, not only keep the animals best interest in mind, but keep YOUR best interest in mind as well. Your going to college and I can't help but wonder the type of strain it is to focus on school work when you have all those animals who need attention, medical care, and maintenance. That kind of strain is not good for your well being.

 

[SevenSins]

Or you can just ask for them in return, and respectfully bury them - also an arguably more sustainable action?

Mkay, you go ahead and bury 40 rats in the back yard and let me know how that goes with the local wildlife and feral cat population. We'll just consider the drugs used to treat and euthanize them "seasoning."

...But intentionally feeding them to herps before they're laced with poison is disgusting and how could anyone suggest such a terrible thing...

Ok then.

 

[Crowsfeet]

Mkay, you go ahead and bury 40 rats in the back yard and let me know how that goes with the local wildlife and feral cat population. We'll just consider the drugs used to treat and euthanize them "seasoning."

...But intentionally feeding them to herps before they're laced with poison is disgusting and how could anyone suggest such a terrible thing...

Ok then.

This is boring now.

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

...But intentionally feeding them to herps before they're laced with poison is disgusting and how could anyone suggest such a terrible thing...

Ok then.

Can you honestly not see how this might be an offensive idea when referring to someone's loved pet? Would it not disturb/upset you to feed your dead dog's body to another animal?

I just can't even wrap my head around how you are so confused that this is an upsetting idea.

 

[milos_mommy]

...But intentionally feeding them to herps before they're laced with poison is disgusting and how could anyone suggest such a terrible thing...

I don't think ANYONE said that suggesting feeding them is out of line or disgusting and terrible. Many people said that it didn't seem like a realistic expectation for someone attached to these animals or that it was unethical given their medical conditions.

Quite a few people have suggested these rats become herp food, and nearly everyone has suggested that the OP is in way over her head and it's unrealistic to care for and rehab these animals, and that asking for donations to do so is not in anyone's best interest.

Less than a few people have been extremely condescending and rude about the exact same suggestions.

ETA: extreme sarcasm and mocking other's opinions really only works when you're actually referring to other's people's real opinions. Not taking people's opinions that are exactly the same as yours, voiced in a much nicer way, and skewing them completely before you mock them.

 

[SevenSins]

Can you honestly not see how this might be an offensive idea when referring to someone's loved pet? Would it not disturb/upset you to feed your dead dog's body to another animal?

I just can't even wrap my head around how you are so confused that this is an upsetting idea.

I can't even wrap my head around how you people seem to be condoning a hoarding situation (then again, this IS the forum where people were condoning someone with obvious mental illnesses whoring themselves out). Sounds like another stalemate.

 

[Renee750il]

Enough asshattery. Everyone knows how you feel, you've made that clear, time to drop it.

 

[milos_mommy]

I can't even wrap my head around how you people seem to be condoning a hoarding situation (then again, this IS the forum where people were condoning someone with obvious mental illnesses whoring themselves out). Sounds like another stalemate.

What person on here has condoned this situation? Show me one post, in this entire thread, that says they think what the OP is doing is a good way to be going about handling all these animals.

Things people have said:
Bre needs to euthanize some of these animals
Suggestions for places to try to rehome the animals
Resources to get the animals transported to out of area homes
The amount of animals she's caring for is not something anyone can realistically do long-term
She should consider using these animals as reptile food.
Receiving donations for these animals is not realistic, likely, or a good solution.

Things people have not said:
This is a well-run operation and nothing needs to change about it.
That they condone the way she is handling these 40+ rats.

Just because people aren't being as rude about it as you are, doesn't mean they aren't telling her the same or very similar things.

 

[SevenSins]

Enough asshattery. Everyone knows how you feel, you've made that clear, time to drop it.

Sorry, guess the whole "condoning someone with obvious mental illnesses whoring themselves out" thing was making it a bit too personal huh? My bad.