I need help...

MicksMom

Active Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
3,978
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Warren Co, NJ
#23
Coming from someone who had rats for years, are you sure you should pursue treatment for some of these guys and not opt for euthanasia instead?

I know it sounds harsh but if the girls have mammary tumors, the males are aggressive, and they all have crappy respiratory systems, there's only so much you can do. Sure a spay can *maybe* lessen the chance of more tumors developing, but it's not fool proof. A neuter *can* help with aggression issues, but not always. If they've all had Myco they're going to be susceptible to other respiratory infections, etc. and a surgery might put them over the edge.

Added into that you don't have a job, so what happens if you do all of these surgeries and there are complications.. how will you pay for that?
I've been struggling with how to say that. I would also suggest not taking in any more rescues until you're back on your feet. It wouldn't be fair to you, your pets or the rescued critters.
 
S

SevenSins

Guest
#24
Listen, I hate to have to be the voice of reason here. I know I'm going to **** some people off with this, but you have 40+ cancerous aggressive rats from the sounds of it rats with lots of inbreeding as well. I absolutely adore rats and have kept them on several occasions, but it doesn't sound like there is much you can do for them here. Maybe its time to find someone that keeps herps and sell/ give them to said person.
Beat me to it.

I used to keep and breed fancy rats. There is absolutely nothing about common petstore-quality rats that are "extremely aggressive" that warrants wasting (yes, wasting) money on spaying and neutering them. I wouldn't even bother treating the myco at this point, not to mention a neuter is NOT guaranteed to curb "extreme aggression" in an adult male rat, and can cost upward of $100 each depending on where you live. Multiplied by how many, again? Let me ask you, why? When anyone can get a healthy, friendly rat from a breeder for just a few dollars? Or a petstore, as much as I loathe them, and their rats usually have myco and rat lice too (forgot to mention, by the way, that your house is probably crawling with those at this point) but they'd still be cheaper.
 

Saeleofu

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
9,036
Likes
0
Points
36
#25
it sounds like the OP is probably quite bonded to a lot of these rats for one thing, and for another: I wouldn't be feeding such potentially ill rats to my reptiles. If they need such a vet care, and some could have things such as infections/viruses/etc...I wouldn't give them to my snakes.
Those are the two reasons I didn't suggest this. If they're sick enough, then put them down humanely. No reason to feed sick rodents to snakes. And I know that despite feeding rats and mice to the snakes at work every week, if I had a PET rat, I would never be able to feed THAT rat to a snake, regardless of my situation. We actually have an African soft-fur rat living in our department that came from the herp department's colony of feeders. He's not going to be fed to anyone, period.
 
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
21
Likes
0
Points
0
#26
Those are the two reasons I didn't suggest this. If they're sick enough, then put them down humanely. No reason to feed sick rodents to snakes. And I know that despite feeding rats and mice to the snakes at work every week, if I had a PET rat, I would never be able to feed THAT rat to a snake, regardless of my situation. We actually have an African soft-fur rat living in our department that came from the herp department's colony of feeders. He's not going to be fed to anyone, period.
Put down humanely? How do you think rats get fed to snakes. I don't know how you guys do it, but I've always pre-killed anything that went to my snakes very quickly and humanely. I regularly buy feeders online prefrozen and I'm sure the conditions they're kept in make for much sicker rodents, and none of my snakes has ever suffered an illness from a contaminated feeder. All the people that went on about feeding sick rodents to snakes have clearly either never seen a feeder facility, or must have their own immaculate feeder colonies.
 

milos_mommy

Active Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
15,349
Likes
0
Points
36
#27
I don't think Sael is saying that feeder rats aren't killed humanely. I think she's just saying that, if turning these rats into herp food isn't a possibility (which IMO it shouldn't be ethically...just because other people feed snakes sick rats doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. That's like reprimanding someone for irresponsibly breeding their dogs and then using "have you seen puppy mills? They're much worse!" as an excuse), putting them down might be the best option.
 

MicksMom

Active Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
3,978
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Warren Co, NJ
#28
Put down humanely? How do you think rats get fed to snakes...
Put down humanely means euthanasia (drug OD), as opposed to letting the rats suffer until their illnesses took their lives. It's already been mentioned that they are too sick to be used as snake food.
 
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
21
Likes
0
Points
0
#29
I don't think Sael is saying that feeder rats aren't killed humanely. I think she's just saying that, if turning these rats into herp food isn't a possibility (which IMO it shouldn't be ethically...just because other people feed snakes sick rats doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. That's like reprimanding someone for irresponsibly breeding their dogs and then using "have you seen puppy mills? They're much worse!" as an excuse), putting them down might be the best option.
I'm not saying some people feed sick rodents, I'm saying anyone that doesn't breed their own feeders feeds sick rodents. Its impossible to avoid illness when you're breeding the numbers required to sell feeders. I'm assuming you don't breed your own, so that adorable little corn snake of yours is eating sick pinkies. I was trying to avoid a **** storm so I'm going to bow out of this thread respectfully. If anyone would like to discuss this over PM feel free to message me.
 
S

SevenSins

Guest
#30
just because other people feed snakes sick rats doesn't mean it's the right thing to do
Depends on the illness. There is nothing about rat myco that will harm a snake, and you can't get away from it anyway, because nearly all feed-quality rats carry it. Even most colonies bred by herp owners carry it. What WILL harm your snakes is the antibiotics and crap people use to treat it.

There are also much more humane ways to kill a rat than an injection into the heart.
 

Fran101

Resident fainting goat
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
12,546
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Boston
#31
((HUGS)) I know all this must be very hard for you. I've never kept small animals.. but I've gotta say, looking up the average lifespan for rats and how stretched out rescues already are, I think you should really consider lowering your numbers to only the healthy ones.
They honestly seem like the only ones with even a chance at adoption and their low care cost will give you a chance to have a life and get back on your feet and focus on school

The potential home market for rats isn't that large.. especially sick ones and aggressive ones.
I would talk to the vet about euthanasia for all the sick ones at the very least..

I know it seems harsh but it seems like what is best for you (and the remaining healthy rats) in the long run. You get more time, they get more attention and the care they need.

I just don't see any placement options or "way out" for 40+ rats. Even with some monetary donations.. rats get older, they tend to get more sick, their numbers aren't going to change.. this can't go on..
 

~Jessie~

Chihuahua Power!
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
19,665
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Florida
#33
((HUGS)) I know all this must be very hard for you. I've never kept small animals.. but I've gotta say, looking up the average lifespan for rats and how stretched out rescues already are, I think you should really consider lowering your numbers to only the healthy ones.
They honestly seem like the only ones with even a chance at adoption and their low care cost will give you a chance to have a life and get back on your feet and focus on school

The potential home market for rats isn't that large.. especially sick ones and aggressive ones.
I would talk to the vet about euthanasia for all the sick ones at the very least..

I know it seems harsh but it seems like what is best for you (and the remaining healthy rats) in the long run. You get more time, they get more attention and the care they need.

I just don't see any placement options or "way out" for 40+ rats. Even with some monetary donations.. rats get older, they tend to get more sick, their numbers aren't going to change.. this can't go on..
I've been trying to think of a way to correctly word a reply, so I'll quote yours since it conveys how I feel.

((((((((((((((HUGS, Bri)))))))))))))

If you lived closer, I'd consider taking the suggies. I have two females (for those who were wondering... apparently my Mort isn't a male afterall lol) and wouldn't mind adding more. However, I don't think there is a way to make it financially worth it to get 2 gliders from WA to FL.
 

milos_mommy

Active Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
15,349
Likes
0
Points
36
#34
I don't breed my own feeder mice (my snakes eat small mice and fuzzies...I haven't bought a pinkie in years), but I do purchase them from a very small, private organization that does reptile awareness, rescue, and education and breeds (and kills) their own mice. Obviously I don't have a veterinarian checking these guys out, but I see how they are kept and there is no sign they are unwell, and if I found out these people were knowingly sending me rodents with infections and unknown viruses/symptoms, I would be VERY upset.

I just don't see the logical behind that at all. You wouldn't see someone post about their chickens who are packed into a tiny, dirty enclosure, unhealthy, being fed unsafe hormones and cyanide, and suggest that since that person can't handle them, they sell them as people food, and say "oh, large meat farms do it anyway so that makes it ok."
 

~Jessie~

Chihuahua Power!
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
19,665
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Florida
#35
I honestly think it's heartless to suggest having these rats fed to snakes. These rats are loved pets, and I couldn't imagine feeding my pets to another animal.

I think that euthanasia would be the best option for these sick rats, unless some rescue was able to actually take them in. Rats have such short life expectancies, and you just can't save them all. Especially when you don't have any income coming in and are struggling to provide for them.
 

Saeleofu

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
9,036
Likes
0
Points
36
#36
I don't think Sael is saying that feeder rats aren't killed humanely. I think she's just saying that, if turning these rats into herp food isn't a possibility
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Not even because of the feeding sick animals to snakes reason, either. These are PETS. I can understand not wanting to feed PETS to a snake. That's like me saying your dog's sick, just go feed it to a lion or a wolf, or heck, cut it up and feed it to the other dogs. It's just NOT going to happen.
 

~Jessie~

Chihuahua Power!
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
19,665
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Florida
#37
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Not even because of the feeding sick animals to snakes reason, either. These are PETS. I can understand not wanting to feed PETS to a snake. That's like me saying your dog's sick, just go feed it to a lion or a wolf, or heck, cut it up and feed it to the other dogs. It's just NOT going to happen.
Yep, exactly this.
 
S

SevenSins

Guest
#38
I honestly think it's heartless to suggest having these rats fed to snakes. These rats are loved pets, and I couldn't imagine feeding my pets to another animal.
How are these "loved pets?" They're pet store rejects that someone supposedly dumped. Makes so much more sense to spend tens or hundreds of dollars euthanizing them ("humanely" isn't a word I'd use for the method normally used by vets on small rodents, but whatever helps people sleep better) and throwing them out with the trash than it does to recycle them. I mean I guess we could donate to have them individually cremated too...

I just don't see the logical behind that at all. You wouldn't see someone post about their chickens who are packed into a tiny, dirty enclosure, unhealthy, being fed unsafe hormones and cyanide, and suggest that since that person can't handle them, they sell them as people food, and say "oh, large meat farms do it anyway so that makes it ok."
Really big difference between human grade food and herp food. Do you feed your dog kibble? Because, um... Yeh, pretty sure this isn't human grade:

 

~Jessie~

Chihuahua Power!
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
19,665
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Florida
#39
How are these "loved pets?" They're pet store rejects that someone supposedly dumped.
Just because they're pet store rejects doesn't mean they're not loved. I can tell the OP cares a LOT about them by reading her posts. She's maxed out her Care Credit card for them, has tried to nurse them back to health, etc, etc.

I've ended up with foster dogs that were "dumped rejects"... it doesn't mean that I didn't love them, or that they didn't end up in homes where they were loved.

I just don't find it appropriate to suggest that these rats be given away for snake food. They're being cared for as "pets" and not feeders.
 
S

SevenSins

Guest
#40
I just don't find it appropriate to suggest that these rats be given away for snake food. They're being cared for as "pets" and not feeders.
Cool. I don't find it appropriate to beg on a forum for people to fund some bleeding heart's hoarding project. Shall we agree to call it a stalemate? ;)
 

Members online

Top