How does a 4.0 student not understand the word 'illegal'?

I don't know any illegal immigrants (like I said I know quite a few) who have taxes taken out of their wages. If they did, they wouldn't be able to afford to live here (here being NY state).

I can't imagine out of all the illegals working in this country, many of them having SS #s, especially stolen ones. If identity theft is that common that's as big of a problem as immigration in the first place.

But come to think of it, my dad was given a SS#/card that says "temporary for work only" almost 10 years ago when he came here. It was not dated, and he still uses it. No one checks if it's valid or not.
 
There were two companies here that had illegals on their payroll. They didn't withhold taxes either. And no, that's not the reason they were caught either.

I'd imagine it's fairly common practice not to with hold their taxes. Why should you? They're not claimed on your payroll, nor in your business documents. They don't exist as far as the government is concerned, so why account for them? It'd be more suspicious to account for them. "Hmm....this person is paying enough taxes for 15 employees, but here it says they only hire 12..."
 
Milos, we have a totally different immigrant population here. I'd say you're right about New York being an anomaly. Our immigrant work force is mostly employed by large corporate factories and their IDs aren't necessarily from ID theft, many are from deceased, etc.
 
We have an illegal population comparable I think to the rest of the north east, mid west, etc. but our state has all kinds of unusual laws compared to others...here most illegals work landscaping or in small restaurants off the books. They make hardly anything, live 30 or more in a 2 bedroom house, and many are homeless. Plenty of their children go to school, but plenty don't.
 
Yah, our immigrant population is different. It's mainly Latino, with a smattering of Oriental and a number of Pakistani. The Latino population has mostly been brought here by industry and is undocumented. The Oriental is also here with industry, but they are here on temporary visas attached to the factories they've bought out. The Pakistanis have either come here with the hospitality industry or have bought gas/convenience stores that were going out of business or are doctors brought in by the hospitals because they are cheaper than American doctors.

Quite a few of the illegal families have bought homes here, but most rent/lease. We rarely see any homeless. Some do live in motels, but not many. They own cars, etc.
 
"melting pot"

Too many have forgotten that. When immigrants came over, they did everything to become "American". They learned the language. They took pride in their new country. They did their best to fit in and make the country proud of them. And even during all that, they still managed to keep their culture with them.

Today's illegal aliens do not comprehend any of that. They understand entitlement. They want what everyone else has. They do not want to learn our language. They want to wave their home country's flag above that or in place of the American flag. They are parasites. (yes I said it)

While I feel sorry for the girl to some degree, how dare she bemoan and complain about what she feels she is owed. Her parents knew darn well what they were doing.

And I am a firm believer in changing the law regarding anchor babies. That needs to be on the forefront of our government's agenda. A child should only be an American citizen if one or both parents are legal citizens. Just because you have a baby on American soil, doesn't automatically make it a citizen.

And what happens if you sneak across the border into Iran....or Iraq....or Venezuela....or China....or North Korea.....

Why are the only country that rewards illegal aliens?
 
Probably because you can't really compare Mexico's and Canada's living conditions :) If I could, I would move to Canada in a heart beat!! But #$^% YOU Canadian immigration laws ;)

I have to say, going through the process of becoming a legal alien, not even a citizen, was one of the most frustrating and humiliating experiences I ever had to go through. Not only that, but it is also costly. We were lucky not having to hire an immigration lawyer, so I can't even imagine how much more that would cost. We probably spent about $3500.00. Now how is a poor family from Mexico with more than one person supposed to afford this?!

Also, illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. They pay taxes with everything they buy and a lot of them do not get anything in return. But my view is probably biased as I have met a few illegal immigrants who are very hard-working and also very humble, I do know that a lot are not like that.

Now, I am not saying that we do not need a reform of immigration laws, dear lord, yes we do.
 
I completely agree with taking the anchor baby clause off the table. That's far to enticing a possibility and it not only draws many desperate women over the border, it has to be a strong impetus for women already here -- alone -- to become unwed, poverty stricken mothers.

It is so wrong to support laws that encourage the birth of children into poverty, whether they are the children of illegal immigrants or are born to women who will lose "benefits" without a young child in the home.
 
Miakoda said:
"melting pot"

Too many have forgotten that. When immigrants came over, they did everything to become "American". They learned the language. They took pride in their new country. They did their best to fit in and make the country proud of them. And even during all that, they still managed to keep their culture with them.

Today's illegal aliens do not comprehend any of that. They understand entitlement. They want what everyone else has. They do not want to learn our language. They want to wave their home country's flag above that or in place of the American flag. They are parasites. (yes I said it)

While I feel sorry for the girl to some degree, how dare she bemoan and complain about what she feels she is owed. Her parents knew darn well what they were doing.

And I am a firm believer in changing the law regarding anchor babies. That needs to be on the forefront of our government's agenda. A child should only be an American citizen if one or both parents are legal citizens. Just because you have a baby on American soil, doesn't automatically make it a citizen.

And what happens if you sneak across the border into Iran....or Iraq....or Venezuela....or China....or North Korea.....

Why are the only country that rewards illegal aliens?
Click to expand...

THANK YOU MIA! That is what I was getting at in one of my earlier posts. MELTING POT..........not "change the country to accommodate me pot"

I am NOT saying the hispanic illegals don't work hard, yes they most certainly do. I've been employed at places who took full advantage of them...(out west more so than here)......and even though they KNEW other workers were making far more than they were, it didn't show in their effort.

I really don't take issues with illegals who want to come here and work, I really don't. I don't feel that I've ever lost a job to one or that they took a job from a loved one.......maybe they have and I just don't grasp the trickle down affect, LOL, who knows?

What I DO take issue with is what I mentioned earlier. The ones who get all the free assistance in schools and programs, assistance paid for and meant for OUR OWN citizens. Legal citizens who have to share their meager assistance with people who are not even here LEGALLY..........no different than how I feel about LEGAL citizens who chose not to work and glom off others. That assistance is not there for those reasons and it does bother me.
 
Jules said:
Probably because you can't really compare Mexico's and Canada's living conditions :) If I could, I would move to Canada in a heart beat!! But #$^% YOU Canadian immigration laws ;)

I have to say, going through the process of becoming a legal alien, not even a citizen, was one of the most frustrating and humiliating experiences I ever had to go through. Not only that, but it is also costly. We were lucky not having to hire an immigration lawyer, so I can't even imagine how much more that would cost. We probably spent about $3500.00. Now how is a poor family from Mexico with more than one person supposed to afford this?!

Now, I am not saying that we do not need a reform of immigration laws, dear lord, yes we do.
Click to expand...

This. I can only say it again and again, most Americans, who have always lived in the USA don't know how stressful, embarrising, and costly it is to immigrate legally to the USA. For our family, it cost more than $10,000. We are 3 people. Now imagaine if a family of 5 tried to come over - and since they are from Mexio, they'd most likely have to get an immigration lawyer.
I was offered an internship in the US a while back. Now because I've had a greencard and surrendered it, I guess your athorities are a bit pissy about this, because they declined my visa request. I guessing it has to do with this. (Or with the stolen green card, which can't be found and aparently someone was using it.) I'd have to hire an immigration lawyer to move to the states legally. :(
 
Renee750il said:
I completely agree with taking the anchor baby clause off the table. That's far to enticing a possibility and it not only draws many desperate women over the border, it has to be a strong impetus for women already here -- alone -- to become unwed, poverty stricken mothers.

It is so wrong to support laws that encourage the birth of children into poverty, whether they are the children of illegal immigrants or are born to women who will lose "benefits" without a young child in the home.
Click to expand...


Considering that it would take a Constitutional amendment to change that part of our citizenship rules, I don't think its happening.

And frankly, the anchor baby thing is something of a myth . . . the baby has to turn 18 before he or she can file for its parents, and then there is still a wait (possibly a long one) for a visa. Its not exactly a quick way to get here. And if the parents have been here illegally, its likely they can't adjust their status, and if they do get deported, can't come back for a long time.

Edit: and whoever it was that was talking out her sense of "entitlement", I call BS. She's 17 years old. She has spent most of her life that she can remember here. She has a 4.0 plus average. She obviously is as bright as heck and worked her behind off.

Every other student at her school who got grades like that (unless they were also illegal) would get loans to go wherever they liked. Indeed, those with much worse grades could get a loan to go wherever would take them. Loans are how America affords college, they may be government money, but for a huge number of people, especially bright kids without much money, they are the only way they are going to a good school.

She doesn't feel "entitled". She just wants to be like everyone else. Everyone who has surrounded her since she was a small kid. Her class mates, many of whom did not work half as hard, will go on to college, and she won't. It if were not for where she was born, she could go to Berkley. She's only 17, keep that in mind. She just wants to have the same chance her classmates do, and the same reward for her efforts. I don't call that "entitlement." Remember again that this is pretty much the only country she knows, and the only culture she knows.

You want to see "entitlement" check out those of her classmates who never applied themselves at school and who now are taking out loans for a degree that they may well never pay back, because they are getting a crappy degree from a crappy school and probably are lazy to the bone.
 
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Lilavati said:
Considering that it would take a Constitutional amendment to change that part of our citizenship rules, I don't think its happening.

And frankly, the anchor baby thing is something of a myth . . . the baby has to turn 18 before he or she can file for its parents, and then there is still a wait (possibly a long one) for a visa. Its not exactly a quick way to get here. And if the parents have been here illegally, its likely they can't adjust their status, and if they do get deported, can't come back for a long time.

Edit: and whoever it was that was talking out her sense of "entitlement", I call BS. She's 17 years old. She has spent most of her life that she can remember here. She has a 4.0 plus average. She obviously is as bright as heck and worked her behind off.

Every other student at her school who got grades like that (unless they were also illegal) would get loans to go wherever they liked. Indeed, those with much worse grades could get a loan to go wherever would take them. Loans are how America affords college, they may be government money, but for a huge number of people, especially bright kids without much money, they are the only way they are going to a good school.

She doesn't feel "entitled". She just wants to be like everyone else. Everyone who has surrounded her since she was a small kid. Her class mates, many of whom did not work half as hard, will go on to college, and she won't. It if were not for where she was born, she could go to Berkley. She's only 17, keep that in mind. She just wants to have the same chance her classmates do, and the same reward for her efforts. I don't call that "entitlement." Remember again that this is pretty much the only country she knows, and the only culture she knows.

You want to see "entitlement" check out those of her classmates who never applied themselves at school and who now are taking out loans for a degree that they may well never pay back, because they are getting a crappy degree from a crappy school and probably are lazy to the bone.
Click to expand...

:hail::hail::hail:
 
So what you're saying is 'do well in school and you can be here illegally'? I suppose that's not a bad idea. I'll have to keep in mind the "if you live some where long enough, you're automatically a citizen" argument too for if I ever want to immigrate to Europe without the hassle. Doubt they'll buy it over there though.


However, you do realize there's only so much money to go around and by giving it to her, you're depriving someone who's here legally? Regardless of 'being born on the wrong side of the fence', again, there's perfectly legal ways for her to be here AND get that money, or money from other sources.

And I don't believe I directly said she herself felt entitled, I was talking about illegals in general. Though I suppose she does fall under that category, hence the problem at hand.
 
I don't think the "anchor baby" thing works either. One of our fencing coaches was in the US with his wife for a number of years as a student. His daughter, now four was born here. n He would like to obtain a permanent visa and get his wife and child over here.

He has a job, and is darned hard to replace, as good saber coaches aren't that thick on the ground, but we are told his chances of getting a green card are slim to none, let alone of getting his wife and US citizen daughter over here.

He has a job. He pays taxes. No dice.
 
GlassOnion said:
So what you're saying is 'do well in school and you can be here illegally'? I suppose that's not a bad idea. I'll have to keep in mind the "if you live some where long enough, you're automatically a citizen" argument too for if I ever want to immigrate to Europe without the hassle. Doubt they'll buy it over there though.


However, you do realize there's only so much money to go around and by giving it to her, you're depriving someone who's here legally? Regardless of 'being born on the wrong side of the fence', again, there's perfectly legal ways for her to be here AND get that money, or money from other sources.

And I don't believe I directly said she herself felt entitled, I was talking about illegals in general. Though I suppose she does fall under that category, hence the problem at hand.
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I don't think you can throw people who intentionally came to the US (or any country for that matter) into the same pot as people, who were at a young age taken to the US by their parents. They didn't really have a choice, and I don't think they should be punished for that. She isn't directly being punished, but she is being punshed, because she doesn't even get a chance to prove that she is just as good or even better than legal aliens or citizins of the United States.
So if she isn't granted the fund, what happens then? A very bright young women, who should ethically be granted a loan, goes to work somewhere that is way below her standard of what she could do with her life.

Sure there is only a certian amount of money to go around. But why shouldn't it go to someone who academically is more entitled to get that money than someone who sure may be legal, because he/she was born here, but is academically not qualified as much. I can only see that as a loss to your sociaty, if she is not granted the chance to become someone great. Maybe if she were granted the loan, she could become a world class surgeon, or a great lawyer. Who knows. There are so many possibilties this girl has. They shouldn't be waisted because HER PARENTS came over to the US illegally.
 
GipsyQueen said:
Sure there is only a certian amount of money to go around. But why shouldn't it go to someone who academically is more entitled to get that money than someone who sure may be legal, because he/she was born here, but is academically not qualified as much. I can only see that as a loss to your sociaty, if she is not granted the chance to become someone great. Maybe if she were granted the loan, she could become a world class surgeon, or a great lawyer. Who knows. There are so many possibilties this girl has. They shouldn't be waisted because HER PARENTS came over to the US illegally.
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Then explain to me once again how Germany works it's immigration laws please. And explain to me once again how Germany works it's healthcare as well.

I do believe you've told me before that only citizens can receive the community healthcare yes? Well what of an illegal to germany that really needs a procedure to save their life but has no money to pay for this procedure?

And this girl DOES have the opportunity to go to college here even though she is illegal. She will just have to go to a LESSOR college instead. California DOES have provisions for their community college for illegals. *GASP* So she doesn't get to attend Berkely..........BFD, don't you think there are loads of legal citizens who made the grade to get into a *better college* but didn't have the funds? I hear about them all the time. You know what they do? They go to the college they can AFFORD, get a degree, get a JOB, and then continue their education as they can afford to.

I'd say dishing out the money for her public school education since she was 8 years old is more than fair. Her family more than likely didn't have to pay a dime, and from the sounds of her father's job, they probably received other funding and help through the years on the tax payer's dime. (I don't know that, just an educated guess) Yes, she made good grades, yes I think she can go farther..........but boo hoo if she can't go to berkley, it's not the end of the world, that doesn't mean she is going to be put to work in a sweat shop making $2 an hour, ROFL
 
Lilavati said:
And frankly, the anchor baby thing is something of a myth . . . the baby has to turn 18 before he or she can file for its parents, and then there is still a wait (possibly a long one) for a visa. Its not exactly a quick way to get here. And if the parents have been here illegally, its likely they can't adjust their status, and if they do get deported, can't come back for a long time.
Click to expand...

Not always. The rules change according to political expediency, I'm afraid. Not on paper, but in reality. When elections are up for grabs, for example, it becomes an issue as they don't want the other side to be able to pick out some family whose children were born here and say, "the Family Values candidate wants to destroy this family by sending the parents back across the border."

Back right before the 2000 elections (and the 1996 ones as well) the Clinton administration directed the immigration paper squirrels to work almost exclusively on citizenship petitions. Why? Because historically new citizens vote Democratic. THAT one backfired.

Because so much of immigration is regulations, things get manipulated more than you'd imagine.

And, think on this: we have a huge anchor baby population coming of voting age . . . Can anyone think of a possible candidate with a Latina wife?
 
Renee750il said:
Not always. The rules change according to political expediency, I'm afraid. Not on paper, but in reality. When elections are up for grabs, for example, it becomes an issue as they don't want the other side to be able to pick out some family whose children were born here and say, "the Family Values candidate wants to destroy this family by sending the parents back across the border."

Back right before the 2000 elections (and the 1996 ones as well) the Clinton administration directed the immigration paper squirrels to work almost exclusively on citizenship petitions. Why? Because historically new citizens vote Democratic. THAT one backfired.

Because so much of immigration is regulations, things get manipulated more than you'd imagine.

And, think on this: we have a huge anchor baby population coming of voting age . . . Can anyone think of a possible candidate with a Latina wife?
Click to expand...

I'm just familiar with the current rules . . . and at the moment, I assure you, having a citizen baby is not much help.

Frankly, the whole system is totally nuts, made worse by the fact that it changes all the time.
 
Oh, it's worse now than ever. Once Homeland Insecurity took over the INS :eek: We were, oddly, making some progress prior to that.

Interestingly, one of the first actions Homeland Insecurity took was to close down a number of the new enforcement offices. INS had realized that enforcement is not something you can do from a few centralized locations and had set up strategically located satellite offices, primarily targeting industry that was doing the importing. The Right Wingers stopped that COLD.
 
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