How does a 4.0 student not understand the word 'illegal'?
- Thread starter GlassOnion
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GipsyQueen
Active Member
I was just going to say... legal entry to the US is insane & ridiculuos. I don't even WANT to know what kind of interagation I will be going through to get a visa again. I get pissed off so badly by entering the US for even a short visit, that I just have to ignore all the questions. I can definatly understand why so many enter the US illegally. Mostly because of the costs of a US-Visa and the whole process you have to go through to get a greencard so that you can even work. Siriously, getting a green card and being able to work legally, is not easy.
Lilavati
Arbitrary and Capricious
If you are a laborer, and especially if you are Hispanic (we have country-based quotas) it is, effectively, impossible to get here legally, unless you happen to have a relative, and then its LONG waiting period.
There's a very simple way to reduce illegal immigration. Its called more legal immigration . . . or at least a work-visa system.
They WILL keep coming. This is where the jobs are, this is their chance to make a better life. For many of them its their chance to live in a free country. And most of them are coming for that reason, not because they want our benefits. As long as we are rich and we have a long border with a poor country that borders on yet more poor countries, they will come. We should probably be flattered. But you will never solve the problem by hunting down strawberry pickers, maids, and construction workers . . . because there will always be more.
Frankly, anyone willing to walk across the Sonora desert to get here, likely in the company of a vicious Coyote, and pay thousands for the "pleasure" of doing so is not going to give up and go home. And if they get sent home, they'll probably come back.
Until we give them a legal way to come, or until Mexico gets its act together, they will come here illegally.
There's a very simple way to reduce illegal immigration. Its called more legal immigration . . . or at least a work-visa system.
They WILL keep coming. This is where the jobs are, this is their chance to make a better life. For many of them its their chance to live in a free country. And most of them are coming for that reason, not because they want our benefits. As long as we are rich and we have a long border with a poor country that borders on yet more poor countries, they will come. We should probably be flattered. But you will never solve the problem by hunting down strawberry pickers, maids, and construction workers . . . because there will always be more.
Frankly, anyone willing to walk across the Sonora desert to get here, likely in the company of a vicious Coyote, and pay thousands for the "pleasure" of doing so is not going to give up and go home. And if they get sent home, they'll probably come back.
Until we give them a legal way to come, or until Mexico gets its act together, they will come here illegally.
GipsyQueen
Active Member
I have to agree with you 100%. It was already hard enough for us as europeans to immigrate to the US (WITH a work visa) I don't even want to begin to imagine how hard it must be for a hispanic.
Maybe they should focus less on a green card lottery and more on legal immigration for hispanics.
Renee750il
Felurian
It IS that way here, GO. Exactly. Right down to the profiling, and it's not even based solely on how valuable you are as a member of society; we have quotas based on nationality.
I guess we aren't hearing people complain about theirs because we aren't there.
Yes, ours could be worse. I remember the awful time Puck had trying to emigrate to Canada when he and Tanya were still living in two different countries.
We also make our process prohibitively expensive. The fees are ridiculous, and every stage/set of papers (and they are legion) carries a fee, usually several hundred dollars at a time.
milos_mommy
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I want to say I know tons of illegals, almost none, if ANY from Mexico.
However, they are all Latino, from (for example) equador, el salvador, and the dominican.
This problem is too complex for me to form an opinion on. No one is right, in this situation. It isn't right that it's so difficult to come in legally, it isn't right it's so easy to come in and live illegally, but it isn't the fault of the children of illegal immigrants. It's bad parenting to put a child in the situation where they are an illegal citizen, worse to keep them in a war zone. The US is about equal opportunity, is a melting pot, but when the opportunities for foreigners is at a cost to your own citizens, is that right?
I'd bet if 1/2 the illegals in America right now put as much effort in as they do here down in their own countries to get reform, Mexico would be a **** nice place to live.
However, they are all Latino, from (for example) equador, el salvador, and the dominican.
This problem is too complex for me to form an opinion on. No one is right, in this situation. It isn't right that it's so difficult to come in legally, it isn't right it's so easy to come in and live illegally, but it isn't the fault of the children of illegal immigrants. It's bad parenting to put a child in the situation where they are an illegal citizen, worse to keep them in a war zone. The US is about equal opportunity, is a melting pot, but when the opportunities for foreigners is at a cost to your own citizens, is that right?
I'd bet if 1/2 the illegals in America right now put as much effort in as they do here down in their own countries to get reform, Mexico would be a **** nice place to live.
milos_mommy
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Also, if laborers in Mexico did come illegal and have to pay our taxes and everything, would they still come? Yes it would be safer but would they be any richer or have any more opportunity? They wouldn't be able to afford it. They can afford to be here BECAUSE they are illegal.
Renee750il
Felurian
That "they don't pay tax" business is one of the silliest, most blatant lies told to the public to distract from what's really going on.
Bailey08
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And complicated! I know 3 professionals, from England, Germany and France, respectively, and they had a h#ll of a time getting green cards. For those who applied through their jobs, their employers essentially had to state that they had unique talents that US citizens didn't have. (And I know that some employers won't work with people who have to go through that process.) All also hired immigration attorneys to help them through the process (and they are all lawyers themselves!).
I also talked to someone recently who was working on a neighboring house -- he said that the wait for a visa in his hometown in Brazil was like 8 years.
Renee750il
Felurian
Yup, Bailey, I know how that is. I've done the work on several cases like that. As a matter of fact, I did the immigration work for a friend who married a woman from South America. I had theirs cleared up and her here permanently with a work visa and permanent resident status in half the time it took another friend who married an Israeli woman and used an attorney to be able to bring his wife into the country 
GlassOnion
Thanks, and Gig 'em.
No, it's not exactly like that. There is preference given, but you're not completely shafted without a highly skilled job. In the UK method you're given a set number of points and have to get X number to qualify to immigrate (100 IIRC). A letter of acceptance to a university there is worth 100 points, so automatic visa. A 'highly skilled' profession is some 50 points or so. An average joe job? About 5.
Renee750il
Felurian
No, we don't have a point system. We have a list. Literally. I've done the immigration work here, for professionals as well as plain old people -- even political asylum cases, and if you think THOSE are a gimme :wall:
GlassOnion
Thanks, and Gig 'em.
Here's the UK system:
So if you don't have at least a bachelor's, you're ****ed. Automatic 30 point deficit.
So if you don't have at least a bachelor's, you're ****ed. Automatic 30 point deficit.
Renee750il
Felurian
That actually has more potential to be fair than ours. Ours is pretty arbitrary -- and political. Industry/business lobbies to get jobs they want to be able to fill with cheaper immigrant candidates put on the list, or put higher on the list. It changes.
GlassOnion
Thanks, and Gig 'em.
I guess that's true, as long as you have some kind of degree. But all those day laborers? The very people ya'll are trying to get in? I doubt they'd qualify.
Guess I should add "or at least the ones I've met" as that's a pretty blanket statement. And yes, I know a couple of people here illegally, and they ARE good people, but they're still here illegally, so I don't have any sympathy if they get deported, other than missing an acquaintance.
Guess I should add "or at least the ones I've met" as that's a pretty blanket statement. And yes, I know a couple of people here illegally, and they ARE good people, but they're still here illegally, so I don't have any sympathy if they get deported, other than missing an acquaintance.
milos_mommy
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What taxes do they pay? Obviously sales taxes, maybe landowners taxes, but how do they pay employement taxes, social security, and federal and state taxes that come out of wages?
employers set them up with social security numbers. many of them do pay taxes. or, sometimes, the employers take the taxes out and don't actually pay them to the gov't.
Renee750il
Felurian
They pay them because the employers withhold those taxes. Now, whether or not the employers turn the taxes in as they are supposed to is another question. Most illegals are not paid cash; they're on the company payroll, as I and others have explained earlier in the thread.
milos_mommy
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New York is practically a different country. It's hard to stay in perspective with the rest of the country here. I don't know any company, at least local, who would hire an illegal "on the books". But I don't know any small business here who doesn't pay primarily cash to all their workers, illegal and legal.
How does an employer set up anyone with a SS number??
How does an employer set up anyone with a SS number??
the really dishonest ones could obtain them in the same ways that other people do...identity theft
it's more common that the employer taxes out the taxes and doesn't pay them. the immigrant doesn't know they aren't really paying taxes