Guilt

No guilt. Two of them I bred, two were purchases, and one was an adult give away that I don't consider a rescue.

I used to volunteer with rescue in addition to doing my own dog thing but don't any longer after seeing the nonsense that happens in rescue with placements and how funding is used.
 
I have some guilt looking at breeders for my next dog. It will probably be a couple years from now before I'm ready, but yes I have guilt. It will be my first dog from a breeder, but I know it's exactly what I want and I shouldn't have any guilt. I love my rescues, but there are a few breeds that I just can't get over. I could go the breed rescue route, but I think I rather support an amazing breeder.

It doesn't help that I know my family will probably crucify me over going with a breeder, but since when do I care about what they think lol.
 
I don't feel guilty, no.

I felt terrible when we got Lucy. She was from a terrible "breeder" and even though I was only 14 I KNEW this, knew it really well, but when I saw the puppies I was not capable of making an adult decision. I felt guilt because of the type of breeder she came from, but not at all in a breeder vs. rescue sense.

I'll probably always go to a breeder, or a private rehome - that worked out really perfectly with Cajun.
 
I feel a little bit guilty that Priya is a rescue from India.

I only consciously think about it when I explain her history and a see a wave of confusion and "why would you do that?" pass over people's faces. (Some of the reactions are stronger than that -- like the woman who said, "I would have just put her down.") And honestly, in general, I get the confusion. I appreciate that it's a moral gray area for rescues to devote resources to importing dogs from abroad, which is how Priya got here -- I get that. But in the months and months that I spent thinking about adding a second dog, none of them gave me that intuitive gut feeling of "...this is my dog, that's the one." Except Priya. I'm really glad she's here. She's exactly what I wanted, and I'd do it all over again.

Edited to add: Interestingly, I never get judgmental reactions when I talk about Chalo, who was also imported from abroad (I raised him while I was in the Peace Corps).
 
It wasn't even a factor in my mind so no, no guilt whatsoever. I wanted something so I got it.
 
I've gotten both my dogs from breeders. Carefully select the breeders. Ask for specific traits in the puppies chosen for me by the breeder.

I do not have any guilt. The whole "rescue, don't buy" movement irritates me because it's an attempt to make those of us who buy from breeders feel badly about our choice.

This is a pet that is going to live with my family for several years. I want to do the best I can to end up with those characteristics that I'd like. It's not a guarantee, but it's a pretty good chance.
 
No guilt. I'll preface this with, I have NO issues with adopting or mixed breeds, plenty of phenomenal dogs result from unknown backgrounds. :)

Call it 'adopting', 'rescuing' whatever, but in my opinion, unless you actually rescued the dog from a life threatening situation, you didn't actually rescue it. It completely irks me when people make a point to say they have a 'rescue -insert breed of dog here-'. Would they also introduce an adopted child that way? "This is Billy, we bred him ourselves, and this is Samantha, she's a rescue.".

If you want to buy a dog from a carefully chosen breeder, buy a dog from the breeder instead of buying it from the shelter (you gave the shelter money, they gave you a dog, you bought it no matter what feel good label you adhere to it). If you want to buy a new car when there are plenty of used models available, buy a new car. If you want to have a child biologically instead of adopting, get to it. Weird set of comparisons, but yeah. No need to cookie cutter situations.
 
Several people tried very hard to make me feel guilty when I brought Mira home, but it didn't work :p

I will admit I enjoyed the "ambassador" aspect of succeeding competitively with my mystery mutts, though. It felt good to "prove" a Petfinder dog could run with or handily beat anyone we were up against in our various sports.

I love competing with all my dogs, obviously. It's not a better than/less than sort of thing. But I did take some small pride in that aspect of it.
 
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iriskai said:
No guilt. I'll preface this with, I have NO issues with adopting or mixed breeds, plenty of phenomenal dogs result from unknown backgrounds. :)

Call it 'adopting', 'rescuing' whatever, but in my opinion, unless you actually rescued the dog from a life threatening situation, you didn't actually rescue it. It completely irks me when people make a point to say they have a 'rescue -insert breed of dog here-'. Would they also introduce an adopted child that way? "This is Billy, we bred him ourselves, and this is Samantha, she's a rescue.".

If you want to buy a dog from a carefully chosen breeder, buy a dog from the breeder instead of buying it from the shelter (you gave the shelter money, they gave you a dog, you bought it no matter what feel good label you adhere to it). If you want to buy a new car when there are plenty of used models available, buy a new car. If you want to have a child biologically instead of adopting, get to it. Weird set of comparisons, but yeah. No need to cookie cutter situations.
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I hate this argument. It's dumb.

First of all I don't care where people get their dogs. I really don't. I have two breeder dogs, I might even get a cheap dog from a farm next. Who knows.

But I don't understand why some people insist there's no difference between getting a rescue/shelter dog and a breeder dog.

First off in MANY parts of the country dogs ARE in danger. I know picklepaige was talking about dogs at her shelter recently. Hank's shelter still euthanizes around 40-50% of intakes. In 2007 that shelter only had a live release (adoptions and animals reunited with their owner) of 26%. If you go to many of the rescues here the animals available there are pulled directly from shelters. So adopting there will free up more space to pull dogs out of the high kill shelter. Still a good thing and helping to move dogs away from that situation.

Yes these dogs are in danger. Yes it is a good thing to adopt them. Acknowledging that it is a good thing to adopt them does not make people who go to breeders bad people or making bad choices. But I don't see why we should pretend like there is no such thing as rescuing.
 
Thanks Laurelin.

Also, comparing that to adopting kids is kind of bizarre, because...a kid is able to recognize the details of how they came to be a part of their family, and they are able to understand social and cultural stigmas about adoption and a hundred other things....also, most people I know who have adopted children in this day and age DO tell people their children are adopted, partially because, like with dog rescue, it helps to dissolve misconceptions about the process.

1. If you have a really really awesome dog that you rescued, and people meet the dog, telling them that you've rescued it will make people (particularly people who might think all dogs in rescue are "messed up" or mixed breeds or something) consider that you can find a great dog in rescue.

2. If you have a dog that DOES have some behavioral issues, or say is really underweight or scarred up or shy or whatever, saying they're from rescue can sometimes explain why the dog is like that. Especially if you're talking to a trainer or "dog person". When I meet people's dogs and they act "off" I can determine some things by knowing the dog's history....if the person is a capable handler, and the dog still acts like a nut, I know it's just how the dog is wired, and that can be a lot harder to fix. If a dog comes to me a little timid or whatever, and they say it's a rescue, I know chances are the dog had some bad experience or was traumatized by it's shelter experience, and will likely be pretty easy to "fix" with some training and stability.

If I ever get a breeder dog, I likely wouldn't say so unless I was talking to someone really interested in the breed or who was looking for a dog or whatever. Because most people who aren't super active in the dog world really aren't going to benefit from a good breeder VS rescue, at least not IME. If I got a rescue, I'd probably tell people, because if they or someone they know is looking for a dog, they're probably looking for just an average pet, a decent, mild mannered, friendly dog...and they can find one at the shelter, and a LOT of people don't consider that.


~~~~~~~

I have another question for people with breeder dogs, who say the reason they choose a breeder was because they had specific wants/needs and wanted better odds on health...I know many breeder dogs on Chaz have turned out...not the way they were expected to. Not sure about those in this thread - but I KNOW many chazzers got breeder puppies who unexpectedly turned out reactive, or with a much higher prey drive than expected, or who have developed serious health problems (or a minor enough health problem that they couldn't participate in planned sports)....would you all go to a breeder again? And do you still think going to a breeder turned out better than a rescue would have?

I can definitely see that side of the argument (breeder puppies are more predictable, etc.)....but IME I don't really see it pan out. Most of the puppies/dogs I see come through rescue are exceptionally healthy and end up with comparably hit or miss behavior patterns to breeder puppies.
 
milos_mommy said:
I have another question for people with breeder dogs, who say the reason they choose a breeder was because they had specific wants/needs and wanted better odds on health...I know many breeder dogs on Chaz have turned out...not the way they were expected to. Not sure about those in this thread - but I KNOW many chazzers got breeder puppies who unexpectedly turned out reactive, or with a much higher prey drive than expected, or who have developed serious health problems (or a minor enough health problem that they couldn't participate in planned sports)....would you all go to a breeder again? And do you still think going to a breeder turned out better than a rescue would have?

I can definitely see that side of the argument (breeder puppies are more predictable, etc.)....but IME I don't really see it pan out. Most of the puppies/dogs I see come through rescue are exceptionally healthy and end up with comparably hit or miss behavior patterns to breeder puppies.
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Honestly, for me, it was less about health. All of my rescue dogs growing up had phenomenal health. BYB rescue Labrador lived to be 14 and only passed away due to cancer. His lab mutt daughter also lived to be 14, with cancer and heart failure being the culprit. Neither one had any form of genetic disease except for maybe the cancer.

I chose to go the breeder route because I wanted a certain set of behavior patterns. I wanted a PUPPY that I knew was going to mature to be stable with his family, social with family animals, love to retrieve, love the water, be politely reserved with strangers in public, and be a fully capable watch/guard dog upon maturity. All with having good structure, a short double coat, and maturing to be a certain size.

Could I have found a puppy like this in rescue? Probably. But was it less of a gamble to get a dog from a breeder who specifically produces that kind of dog, vs adopting an 8 week old puppy without a known background or breed mixture and just going off of what I see in front of me at the time? Yes. Had I wanted an adult, or even an older pup that may have been different...but I wanted a puppy. And at that point in my life, I wanted to *know*, as best I could, what my puppy was going to mature to be. So I went with a breeder who produces dogs that fit what I wanted my mature dog to be.

Abrams isn't perfect, but he's pretty close.
 
I have limited personal experience, but both of my breeder puppies are pretty much what I expected, for the most part.

Growing up, the two rescues we had were nut jobs. The 1 purebreed, adult rehomed dog (not a really a rescue - only rehomed because the previous owner was completely comfortable with our family and thought we could offer the dog more than they could at the time) we had was pretty much perfect :)

So in my own personal experience, breeder puppies (purebred) have worked out much, much better. A caveat to this is that I've never been looking for anything more than a family pet, with certain characteristics. I'm not big into dog sports, though this may be changing with my newest pup.
 
puppies from a good breeder are far more predictable than a puppy from a shelter.The caveat being "good". Just because you make puppies with papers doesn't mean much. No puppy is perfect, but if you're finding yourself with puppies growing into very different dogs than you were expecting on a consistent basis, you're not doing it correctly. younger adults or adults are what they are. you can see what they are before you even get them. If there are surprises you probably didn't do y our homework fully.

as for the "rescue", "adopt" "save" etc they're just words and definitions and everyone has a different one. I consider a rescue, one that was pulled from horrific conditions, ie, my cousin walked up to a house and took their dog they would feed beer, blow pot smoke it it's face, hit with an actual 2x4 and used to fire guns to watch it jump.

The rest are adopted, to me. Does it make a difference? Not really. Get your dog and give it a good home. I don't care where it came from. But I don't use the word "rescue" because it doesn't fit my definition. I also don't think everything someone does these days is Epic either and normal emotions aren't "the most amazing reactions" ever either. But i'm an old crotchety man, so be sure to stay off my lawn
 
milos_mommy said:
I have another question for people with breeder dogs, who say the reason they choose a breeder was because they had specific wants/needs and wanted better odds on health...I know many breeder dogs on Chaz have turned out...not the way they were expected to. Not sure about those in this thread - but I KNOW many chazzers got breeder puppies who unexpectedly turned out reactive, or with a much higher prey drive than expected, or who have developed serious health problems (or a minor enough health problem that they couldn't participate in planned sports)....would you all go to a breeder again? And do you still think going to a breeder turned out better than a rescue would have?
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I 100% believe that the only reason I'm as thrilled with my little red dog as I am is because I followed my gut and went breeder route. I got to play all sorts of drive building games, socialize to huge crowds like show environments, and do tons of focus work and impulse control as an itty bitty thing. Yes, we all know she suffered from a minor shoulder injury-- she literally launches everywhere. There's nothing I can/could do to help prevent it. When she's in drive, she doesn't show pain. I still to this day have no idea how she hurt herself. It could have been a misstep, it could have been tweaked playing disc or running or jumping off the couch wrong. I don't know. Will it prevent her from doing nutty things? NOPE. She still launches everywhere she goes and attempts to play too hard and slams herself into walls. Just who she is. Now, with her injury (even completely healed and reconditioned) would I put her into playing flyball every week? No. I can't say for sure that she *couldn't* do it, but my job as her handler is to keep her out of positions that I feel could be detrimental to her health. Between the injury and her shoulder/front conformation in general, I don't think it is a good call. If we run agility, it will most likely be preferred. Playing disc, I'm not going to ask her to do rebounds, leg vaults, and footstalls. Does that make me love her any less? No, frankly it doesn't.

I will always go breeder route for my sport dog from here on out. I still very strongly feel that temperament and aspects of early socialization is way too important to me to forgo. Not only that, but I like pretty dogs. I like having a support system, I like knowing lines and drives and temperaments of the parents my dogs come from. If I go pickup a rescue ACD, I have no idea whether or not the poor dog will go blind halfway through life. With a breeder dog, I know the instant it comes out of health tested parents that they are either clear or a potential carrier.

I've said it a million times, I have nothing against rescue dogs. I love my little man even though he isn't at all what I wanted. I love fostering and watching dogs enter the perfect home. But, for what I look for in a personal dog, I like the imprint of puppyhood much more. Sorry that ended up being a rant. Hopefully it answered your questions.
 
And do you still think going to a breeder turned out better than a rescue would have?
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As someone who is planning (as of now) to go from rescue dogs to a breeder dog next, I will say that I'm going into it completely aware that anything can happen and maybe I'll just have a more expensive dog who doesn't turn out to be what I'm looking for. But as I said on some other thread recently - this time, that's the gamble I'm willing to make. I'll bet more for the higher chance of getting a dog who fits what I'm looking for.

I have two rescues that I adore. Meg, I got as an adult, and I got her fully aware that a) she had some serious fear issues and b) she was lame. She was not the agility prospect I was looking for, and was very challenging to train, but she became a perfectly wonderful agility dog (and never took another lame step in her life *knock wood*).

Gusto, I really, really thought I was going to show up to people who say you can't get nice agility prospects from rescue. Seven week old "border staffy" puppies?! What could be better? I got to start him the way I wanted (not that I wouldn't change a million things now), he was a breed mix that was likely to make a good agility dog, he's nicely put together, he was a confident and happy puppy. And as he matured, he developed serious stress issues, and he has bad (potentially dysplastic) elbows. I love him, he is a wonderful dog, and he has a home for life even if he goes lame tomorrow and never gets to be an agility dog again, or if I can't improve his stress issues.

But there is no way around the fact that he's been a bit of a heartbreak. I want a dog who wants to do agility as badly as I do. I don't think for an instant that going to a breeder for a BC is going to get me an "easy" agility dog, or that there won't be a million new things that pop up that challenge me. But I want a dog who wants to play the game, and I want a dog I can start as a puppy. I am not willing to gamble on another rescue puppy as a sport prospect. If I were willing to go with an older dog that I could evaluate more - yes, a better gamble. If I had the space to keep 'failed' prospects as pets (or the personality to just rehome them, which is a big no) I'd be more likely to gamble on a puppy again. But I will go to someone who is regularly producing dogs that fit what I'm looking for. And maybe I'll lose the gamble and get something that doesn't work, or maybe I'll get exactly the right dog and discover that, in fact, I just fail as a trainer. But I don't think for an instant that I won't have better odds of getting it right.
 
So far Traveler and Didgie are pretty much what I expected. There are of course individual things, unique to them, that I didn't predict, both good and bad. I will probably always continue getting dogs from breeders because I love puppies but I won't do another puppy from an unknown background. Health, temperament and structure mean to much to me.

Of course I could hit on a fantastic dog. Fergus is an outstanding dog. But, I only was ok getting him because he was an adolescent and I had an idea of his temp. But Kaylee was very nervy, very badly built and died of bone cancer at 6.

Breeders aren't magical nor are they going to produce clones for every dog. Neither to the dogs live in a glass bubble that doesn't allow any outward experiences to happen.

Sometimes people don't do their research or think they are a good fit for a breed when they aren't. Many times that makes for a person that finds many faults in their dog. Sometimes you go to a breeder who you thought was good only to find out the truth later on, after you have your dog.

And sometimes, the genetic lottery just misses with a dog, well bred or not. The difference tends to seem to me that when that happens to dog from a breeder, everyone notices because it's NOT what they expect (or it fuels the "See, breeders aren't good!"). The amount of mixes of unknown origin that have issues tend to go unnoticed because, well, because it's not that uncommon.

That isn't to say there aren't amazing dogs that came from rescues or were adopted or whatever. There are a ton of great ones. But, I know for me personally, I just can't take that risk of getting a puppy with out at least stacking the deck. Things might not work out but at least I had better odds.
 
In many ways Watson was not exactly what I expected just because I'd never owned a sporting breed before, and had never trained a dog for sports. So any breed would have been a bit of a struggle in that respect unless I got something more similar to what I had as a kid, and even then I only really remember what they were like as super calm adults.

But the more I get to know the breed and the more individuals I meet, I realize that he exactly fits what all other Welshies are. There is some variation in temperaments for sure, and some things pop up that are not desirable or common (RG, or reactivity, or shyness), but yeah, overall, I know pretty much exactly what I'm going to get when I get a Welshie, and they are a really really good fit for me and my family.

I know people who got puppies from rescue and most turned out nothing like what they expected or were told by the rescue. They are great dogs and awesome pets, but I like to dabble in sports and I'm also just picky. I like what I like in temperament and appearance and I'm not very comfortable with risk or surprises in general.
 
iriskai said:
No guilt. I'll preface this with, I have NO issues with adopting or mixed breeds, plenty of phenomenal dogs result from unknown backgrounds. :)

Call it 'adopting', 'rescuing' whatever, but in my opinion, unless you actually rescued the dog from a life threatening situation, you didn't actually rescue it. It completely irks me when people make a point to say they have a 'rescue -insert breed of dog here-'. Would they also introduce an adopted child that way? "This is Billy, we bred him ourselves, and this is Samantha, she's a rescue.".

If you want to buy a dog from a carefully chosen breeder, buy a dog from the breeder instead of buying it from the shelter (you gave the shelter money, they gave you a dog, you bought it no matter what feel good label you adhere to it). If you want to buy a new car when there are plenty of used models available, buy a new car. If you want to have a child biologically instead of adopting, get to it. Weird set of comparisons, but yeah. No need to cookie cutter situations.
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I have a rescue Australian Cattle Dog. Isn't she just wonderful?

I think this is one of the silliest posts I've seen. To start off, I've never heard anyone introduce their dog as a rescue. It usually comes up that Fable is a rescue when someone asks what breed she is and I reply that she's a cattle dog mix. And then they ask "is she a rescue?" And so what if people do introduce their dog as a rescue? Where's the harm in that? I find that people like to know where other peoples' dogs come from. It makes good conversation.

And you do not "buy" dogs from shelters and rescues. You adopt them. These organizations (or at least the real, legitimate ones) use the adoption fees to fund the care of the other dogs. The rescue I volunteer for would have gone under several years ago if they didn't charge adoption fees. The fees also help to ensure the adopters are committed financially to their new dogs.

Adopting/Rescuing dogs is completely different from buying breeder dogs. You are saving a life when you rescue/adopt because that's one more dog that isn't euthanized and one more open kennel for a new dog to stay in. You're not saving a life when you buy a breeder dog.

Also, comparing getting a dog to adopting a child or buying a car doesn't make any sense. Those are completely different scenarios with so many different factors to consider in each of them. Just because you wouldn't introduce your child as adopted doesn't mean it's bad that you introduce your dog as a rescue. Children can understand what you say in conversation, dogs can't.

I like to tell people that my dog is a rescue to let them know that they can get good dogs from a rescue/shelter situation. A lot of people think that rescues are damaged goods, when that really isn't the case. But the fact that I tell people that Fable is a rescue doesn't mean that I'm shaming breeders or think they're bad.
 
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