Giant Schnauzers

PWCorgi

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#1
We had one in the rally class that Frodo and I just finished. She seemed like a really cool dog.

Experiences with them?
How much of an actual guarding instinct do they tend to have? The one that I knew didn't have much at all. Not that I was going in his house uninvited or anything, but he was super bouncy and friendly.


Not that I'm looking for another dog anytime in the next decade, but I've always though GS's were awesome looking dogs.
 

MericoX

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#2
The ones I've known, their owners have described them similar to a Rottie in a wirey coat. Smart, goofy, but definitely need a firm owner, and one you would not want to come into a house uninvited with lol.
 
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#3
There's been a few around my IPO club and I personally have a hard time taking them seriously. I have seen a video or two of a couple very nice working Schnauzers, but the ones that I have met were not very strong, as far as bitework goes, and were quick to quit when pressured.

Socially, they were very nice, goofy, bouncy dogs.

Edit: The owners of the dogs I'm talking about also refer to them as "forces to be reckoned with", but I hear that a lot in dog sport without seeing much proof to back it up.
 

Laurelin

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#4
My agility trainer in Texas had 5 of them but I was only around 2 very often. They were really big, really physical, and very bouncy. Kind of boxer-ish in a way to me.
 

PWCorgi

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There's been a few around my IPO club and I personally have a hard time taking them seriously. I have seen a video or two of a couple very nice working Schnauzers, but the ones that I have met were not very strong, as far as bitework goes, and were quick to quit when pressured.

Socially, they were very nice, goofy, bouncy dogs.

Edit: The owners of the dogs I'm talking about also refer to them as "forces to be reckoned with", but I hear that a lot in dog sport without seeing much proof to back it up.
This dog in particular was initially on trial in the home as a mondio prospect, but according to the person working her she was too soft/didn't have what it takes and so she's just doing fun stuff and putting more of a foundation on her before the breeder takes her back to place her.

My agility trainer in Texas had 5 of them but I was only around 2 very often. They were really big, really physical, and very bouncy. Kind of boxer-ish in a way to me.
The one I knew (owned by a family member who I didn't see often) was very boxerish in personality. He often spent time in the bedroom because he would knock little kids over and jump on the elderly guests. He was a really nice dog, but wasn't at all what I think of when I think of guardian breeds (aloof, reserved, etc.) he was very puppyish.
 

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#6
There's been a few around my IPO club and I personally have a hard time taking them seriously. I have seen a video or two of a couple very nice working Schnauzers, but the ones that I have met were not very strong, as far as bitework goes, and were quick to quit when pressured.

Socially, they were very nice, goofy, bouncy dogs.

Edit: The owners of the dogs I'm talking about also refer to them as "forces to be reckoned with", but I hear that a lot in dog sport without seeing much proof to back it up.
I'm going to just agree with this entire post.
 

PWCorgi

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#7
Do either of you know if there are "sport/working" lines and "show" lines in the breed?
 

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The one I knew (owned by a family member who I didn't see often) was very boxerish in personality. He often spent time in the bedroom because he would knock little kids over and jump on the elderly guests. He was a really nice dog, but wasn't at all what I think of when I think of guardian breeds (aloof, reserved, etc.) he was very puppyish.
Don't know GS's very well at all, but for Guardian breeds know a bit.

Be careful with them, Other than the Fila's, some Dogo lines, and TM's, there socialized a lot, so they can read a person or another animal. If any fun loving guardian breed puts him or herself between you and the owner there is a good chance they will defend the owner if need be. EM's 95% or better of EM's stink at bite training, but can reduce a ham bone to splinters in a flash, also a lot of guardian breeds don't bite but hold a attacker at bay, by size and holding.

Most guardian breeds are not the killer Rottie you see in the movies, and yes Rotties do excel in the area. A lot of the big goofy bounce ones will surprise you. Granted just as many are soft, but just because of how it acts don't count it as such.
 

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#11
Don't know GS's very well at all, but for Guardian breeds know a bit.

Be careful with them, Other than the Fila's, some Dogo lines, and TM's, there socialized a lot, so they can read a person or another animal. If any fun loving guardian breed puts him or herself between you and the owner there is a good chance they will defend the owner if need be. EM's 95% or better of EM's stink at bite training, but can reduce a ham bone to splinters in a flash, also a lot of guardian breeds don't bite but hold a attacker at bay, by size and holding.

Most guardian breeds are not the killer Rottie you see in the movies, and yes Rotties do excel in the area. A lot of the big goofy bounce ones will surprise you. Granted just as many are soft, but just because of how it acts don't count it as such.
That has been my experience with guardian breeds as well. Lots of derping and silliness but when real life circumstances get serious, they buckle down and surprise the heck out of everyone that knows them. Including (maybe especially) their families.
 
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#13
My experience is that a lot of people say that about guardian breeds, but really, their dogs are not ever put in real situation that would test it. Half of the people who want to get involved in bite sports will start with their dog who they say "charges at a knock on the door" and "barks at people through the window" or "he's not good with strangers" and "he's a real dog", and the dog ends up having very limited ability in bite work.

The dogs that have the most trouble in IPO trials that I've seen are the "off breeds", Boxers, Doberman, Giant Schnauzers, etc, both working and show lines. This is not to say I don't see the same in GSD's and Mals too, but its more predictable with the other breeds. I went to the Boxer nationals and Rottweiler nationals last year. Out of the 8 Boxers entered, only 2 would even engage with the decoy. And out of those 2, one of them bounced right off the sleeve. I'll be entering my own dog in the Schnauzer nationals this year. They have such a lack of capable dogs in the sport that they need to open the competition up to all breeds just to make the trial worth it.

And honestly, IPO is NOTHING compared to a real life attack on a dog. Its the politically correct way (at this point in time) to display a bad man going after a dog with a soft padded stick and a little bit of yelling.

The working line bred dogs across the board showed more promise than the show lines. But they still aren't ideal for any sort of protection work.
 

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My experience is that a lot of people say that about guardian breeds, but really, their dogs are not ever put in real situation that would test it. Half of the people who want to get involved in bite sports will start with their dog who they say "charges at a knock on the door" and "barks at people through the window" or "he's not good with strangers" and "he's a real dog", and the dog ends up having very limited ability in bite work.

The dogs that have the most trouble in IPO trials that I've seen are the "off breeds", Boxers, Doberman, Giant Schnauzers, etc, both working and show lines. This is not to say I don't see the same in GSD's and Mals too, but its more predictable with the other breeds. I went to the Boxer nationals and Rottweiler nationals last year. Out of the 8 Boxers entered, only 2 would even engage with the decoy. And out of those 2, one of them bounced right off the sleeve. I'll be entering my own dog in the Schnauzer nationals this year. They have such a lack of capable dogs in the sport that they need to open the competition up to all breeds just to make the trial worth it.

And honestly, IPO is NOTHING compared to a real life attack on a dog. Its the politically correct way (at this point in time) to display a bad man going after a dog with a soft padded stick and a little bit of yelling.

The working line bred dogs across the board showed more promise than the show lines. But they still aren't ideal for any sort of protection work.
Are they looking at the sporting side or for a guardian breed?

If they are looking for the sporting side agree with ya a 100%
Guardian side not so much, because real world I see this and anytime you have issue arise and the silly goofy dog defends there owner, the default response is the dog was just a throwback.
 

PWCorgi

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#15
I used to follow this blog all the time, and I love(d) Bullet!

Covenant's Run to the Battle

I wish she'd start blogging again.
Hahaha, I'm just reading through the blog, and based on the following I'm pretty sure I need a Bullet:

Everyone loves Foxy, she's been described as the best dog ever. My reply is always "No, Bullet is the best dog ever." To each their own. Foxy is easy to train, eager to please and calm, happy to just lie at your feet all day. She's the perfect pet and will make some family with an autistic child very happy.


But I prefer Bullet. High, demanding, noisy, goofy, always eager, ever hopeful that you'll throw the ball just one more time Bullet.
The dog that nobody else likes? Yeah...that's the dog I want.
 
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#16
Are they looking at the sporting side or for a guardian breed?

If they are looking for the sporting side agree with ya a 100%
Guardian side not so much, because real world I see this and anytime you have issue arise and the silly goofy dog defends there owner, the default response is the dog was just a throwback.
How many times have you seen a real life encounter in which a dog steps up and protects the owner? Honest question, not being an ass at all.

Sport may not be "real life" either, but it certainly does test the dogs ability to handle a threat when stressed and pressured. If a dog was true to its guardian nature, than I would think that even in sport, an attack on the dog or handler wouldn't result in the dog running off the field as often as it does.
 

Romy

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#17
How many times have you seen a real life encounter in which a dog steps up and protects the owner? Honest question, not being an ass at all.

Sport may not be "real life" either, but it certainly does test the dogs ability to handle a threat when stressed and pressured. If a dog was true to its guardian nature, than I would think that even in sport, an attack on the dog or handler wouldn't result in the dog running off the field as often as it does.
I've been the one on the protected side of an encounter more than once.

I fostered a kuvasz once. She'd been at our house for several months at that point. She was the happiesty floofiest derpy dog. LOVED everybody. Total attention *****. I had some doubts about whether she had an ounce of defensiveness in her.

Then one evening some dude bent the padlocked gate to break into our yard where she was sleeping. I just heard a horrendous roaring sound and glanced out the window to see a streak of white go by and thought ,"well *bleep!*"

When I got outside there was several police officers with flashlights running by too. I called the dog back because she'd chased the guy about half a block into a field and was standing on the edge of the property making kujo faces in his direction. The police caught up, searched for him, and said he'd already broken into several other yards the next street over. She was such a good well balanced dog that she let the officers pet her and tell her she's a good girl right after that happened. (The whole time my borzoi bitch was galloping around like it was the funnest game ever. She totally chased the guy too but had no clue about it being a serious bad guy thing :rolleyes: )

Breeders of some LGD breeds tell me that they don't perform well in bite sports and even in the "weird guy with a stick" portion of the ATTS exam because they're bred to be defensive of territory rather than a person holding their leash. You remove them from their territory and they don't have anything left to defend, so why would they want to risk getting whomped by a weirdo with a stick?

Presumably she didn't bite the guy, which is exactly how a guardian breed is supposed to handle a confrontation. Guardian breeds aren't supposed to indiscriminately maul trespassers and people with sticks. They're independent thinking dogs. Most have low to nonexistent prey drive. They're expected to use their own judgement. They're expected to use the minimum force necessary to drive the threat away from their property.

Usually that escalates as follows:

Threat display (barking, growling, lunging, posturing, etc)
Charging
Muzzle Punch
Tooth Punch
Bite

Even filas and TMs are expected to go through the same steps before resorting to a bite.

Are there LGDs with bad nerves out there? Absolutely. Have people tried to do protection work with them? Absolutely. Have you seen those dogs at practices? Most Likely. I just wouldn't compare an independent breed with zero prey drive that is normally worked on its own property and is expected to drive people *away* to perform in a sport setting the same way a highly prey driven handler oriented breed that has been bred for bite sports for 80+ years. They're apples and oranges. Bite sports dogs are supposed to catch and hold a guy. LGDs are supposed to make them go AWAY. They can't go away if they are in the dog's mouth. The only exception is the fila, which are highly prey driven and are bred to hold (it's in their name).

Something else to keep in mind is the age of the guardian breed dog. Many are very slow maturing, and their defensive drives don't mature until they are 2-4 years old. If people are bringing puppies/young dogs out, they probably are not going to respond as expected under pressure.
 

LMost

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#18
How many times have you seen a real life encounter in which a dog steps up and protects the owner? Honest question, not being an ass at all.

Sport may not be "real life" either, but it certainly does test the dogs ability to handle a threat when stressed and pressured. If a dog was true to its guardian nature, than I would think that even in sport, an attack on the dog or handler wouldn't result in the dog running off the field as often as it does.
To be exact 3 "real life".
By a 240lb EM, who is the biggest drooling goofball anyone would meet, grandkids use him a pillow to watch cartoons, and would most likely yawn at you if you came running with a stick and yelling. Protected my ex at a pig roast.

Other 2 where by a friends Great Dane, in Petersburg, Va, who chased off people trying to break in. Not as big a goofball but a extremely friendly dog.

Neither dog had training past sit/stay/come/ oh and leave it alone.

So while yes, a lot of them are soft. You can be surprised by many.
 

Romy

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#19
And just to throw a weird story in the mix, my aunt rescued a German shepherd that was going to be put down by the schutzhund trainer/kennel owner.

That guy was a complete douche, and a horrible excuse for a "trainer".

Candy was out of two German imports titled to SchIII. My aunt met their parents. They were awesome and stable. Guy had bought them and bred them, then kept Candy back to train.

By the time she was 10 months old she weighed 35 lbs. She was skeletal. She was terrified of everything, but especially men. The guy said she was way too nervy and scared of everything to ever be good in bite sports. He described how he'd been trying to test her and pressure her all this time and she never stopped being afraid of him.

She used to poo and pee herself when my uncle walked into the same room as her, that's how scared she was of men. By the time my aunt got her back up to a healthy lean weight she was 65 lbs. This dog was the most absolute neurotic mess I have ever seen. My aunt really turned her around and built up her confidence a lot. She never did lose her terror of strange men.

One thing she did love was young women. Young women were the only humans she hadn't been exposed to as a young dog, so she had only great association with them. She ADORED me. My aunt said that even 10 years later if I asked her to walk out the door with me forever Candy would have gone and never looked back.

I used to house sit for them. They live way out in the country. Very secluded, creepy and dark at night. At 1 am a strange man broke a pane in the window on the back door and unlocked it.

I heard Candy barking, ran to the door, and Candy transformed from a cowering mess into a super amazeballs police dog type. I was stunned. Dude was in not good shape. I called the cops but he left ASAP. It took them 45 minutes to get there. Candy stayed by my side the entire time.

The most bizarre thing is that when the officers arrived I kept hold of her collar because she was pretty amped up, and they are strange men. The officer got out of his car and walked up. Candy just started shaking in terror, yelped, and pissed all over herself.

I told the officer what happened. He just kept looking down at her and saying, "This dog? This dog protected you?" Like he thought maybe there was another GSD and I was mistaken, because that quivering peeing mess couldn't have possibly done that.
 
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#20
I have 2 and have done some bite work with them. My female happens to be the more confident one. She's not one to back down. Goofball is an understatement! They're also stubborn.
If I had more time I would invest in IPO training. Right now our main sports are Flyball and Disc and they both excell at it. They're a ton of fun to work with plus the keep the Jacks in line. :)
 

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