Greenmagick
New Member
Oh for crying in the beer, I quoted myself on accident earlier lol...too late to edit so the above is what I meant
George Zimmerman Found Not Guilty
- Thread starter sillysally
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Oh for crying in the beer, I quoted myself on accident earlier lol...too late to edit so the above is what I meant
NOT reading all these pages. NOT keeping up to the second about this. But, these few facts, and this is my opinion formed from them.
#1: Z followed a black person thru a mostly white subdivision. (In the city they were in, this is nothing new.NOT being racial, however I swear, it makes sense)
#2: The "suspact" was on the phone and words like "Craca" (Cracker) were heard.
#3: A fight did indeed break out.
#4: The black male with the hood on in a prodominantly white subdivision which he usually never passed thru "acted" making motions and stated he was "packing" made or acted threateningly.
Out of those 4 FACTS.....I pry would have shot first as well.
I am 42 years old. My baby being 20. They (my 2 boys) have had tons of friends. I worked with juveniles for 11 years in and for the state of Florida. I KNOW how these punk ass teens act. I have seen it for myself. They may not be serious or truthful, but they do say this kind of stuff, and this is what happens.
Seriously, let this be an example to white OR black kids-don't threaten, don't say what you don't mean, because one day someone WILL call your bluff.
Lack of evidence is what cleared Z, however, truthfully, I believe he stood his ground and defended himself.
#1: Z followed a black person thru a mostly white subdivision. (In the city they were in, this is nothing new.NOT being racial, however I swear, it makes sense)
#2: The "suspact" was on the phone and words like "Craca" (Cracker) were heard.
#3: A fight did indeed break out.
#4: The black male with the hood on in a prodominantly white subdivision which he usually never passed thru "acted" making motions and stated he was "packing" made or acted threateningly.
Out of those 4 FACTS.....I pry would have shot first as well.
I am 42 years old. My baby being 20. They (my 2 boys) have had tons of friends. I worked with juveniles for 11 years in and for the state of Florida. I KNOW how these punk ass teens act. I have seen it for myself. They may not be serious or truthful, but they do say this kind of stuff, and this is what happens.
Seriously, let this be an example to white OR black kids-don't threaten, don't say what you don't mean, because one day someone WILL call your bluff.
Lack of evidence is what cleared Z, however, truthfully, I believe he stood his ground and defended himself.
I think this is why people are mad....
This fact SHOULDN'T even be relevant. At all. Ever.
When I was a kid one of my good friends was the only black kid in a 'predominantly white subdivision'. Since his family was black they shouldn't have been there? We should be suspicious of them? They LIVED THERE.
One of my co-workers is one of a very very few black males in the industry. Since the industry is predominantly white, we should be suspicious of him?
I could go on but I think you get the picture...
This fact SHOULDN'T even be relevant. At all. Ever.
When I was a kid one of my good friends was the only black kid in a 'predominantly white subdivision'. Since his family was black they shouldn't have been there? We should be suspicious of them? They LIVED THERE.
One of my co-workers is one of a very very few black males in the industry. Since the industry is predominantly white, we should be suspicious of him?
I could go on but I think you get the picture...
sparks19
I'd rather be at Disney
But had it been a white teen dressed the same way, acting the same way do we know the outcome wouldn't have been te same?
We all seem to agree that teens are unfairly targeted and teens that dress a certain way are unfairly targeted so how are we so certain that martin was targeted specifically for his race?
Just because something happens when you are a certain race doesn't automatically mean it happened because you are said race.
We all seem to agree that teens are unfairly targeted and teens that dress a certain way are unfairly targeted so how are we so certain that martin was targeted specifically for his race?
Just because something happens when you are a certain race doesn't automatically mean it happened because you are said race.
When I moved to Florida in 1986, the neighborhood we lived in was in West Bradenton. Back then, yes, it was mostly white and East Bradenton was prodominantly black. If someone was black and in the neighborhood, it was probably for a no good reason. AND if someone was white in their neighborhood, it was probably for no good.
Times have changed and neighborhoods are full of both black and white. This is a good thing. However "those" kind of neighborhoods still do exist here and there.
What I want to know is this: If Trayvon was white and Z was black, would we haave even heard about this?
If so, and the black Z would have been found innocent, would thousands of whites riot the streets?
If Trayvon was white, would he have had the leader of a white group speak up nationally as was done by the NAACP for Travon?
Would Obama have had any opinions or comments related to a white Trayvon issue?
I just don't know. I do know that I am tired of hearing how racist white people are, when it shouldnt even be an issue. To me it sounds like reverse racism. Anyone else agree??
Times have changed and neighborhoods are full of both black and white. This is a good thing. However "those" kind of neighborhoods still do exist here and there.
What I want to know is this: If Trayvon was white and Z was black, would we haave even heard about this?
If so, and the black Z would have been found innocent, would thousands of whites riot the streets?
If Trayvon was white, would he have had the leader of a white group speak up nationally as was done by the NAACP for Travon?
Would Obama have had any opinions or comments related to a white Trayvon issue?
I just don't know. I do know that I am tired of hearing how racist white people are, when it shouldnt even be an issue. To me it sounds like reverse racism. Anyone else agree??
Greenmagick
New Member
This has pretty much been all hashed out already in this thread.
If Trayvon was white and Zimmerman black, my bet is Z wouldve been arrested immediately and a full investigation wouldve been launched, immediately.
Your statements dont make sense, in on paragraph you talk about how some neighborhoods its normal to immediately suspect anyone of a different color. Then you talk about being tired of hearing about it as it shouldnt exist...but you just admitted it DOES! OVertly in some areas.
Obama commented on it because it HAS become a national story and while this PARTICULAR case is clouded by no one knowing what happened after Zimmerman started following a teen who was walking home, the same type of scenario plays out day after day and needs to STOP.
Greenmagick
New Member
Oh an on the "riots" - people of ALL colors riot for all kinds of reasons. Ever seen certain cities after their team wins hockey or soccer?
There was a bit of actual rioting, yes, but the MAJORITY were peaceful protests. You get a bunch of people together in masse, yes, sometimes a few individuals take it too far.
There was a bit of actual rioting, yes, but the MAJORITY were peaceful protests. You get a bunch of people together in masse, yes, sometimes a few individuals take it too far.
Romy
Taxiderpy
No. It's not racist to call people out for being racist.
Tahla9999
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Here is the problem with your post and many people's post for that matter. You are looking at this issue in a colorblind light. You are assuming that things would be no different if you change the people involve.
So you believe that if a black man started following a white teen, with his car, than took after the white teen when the boy was obvious spook and tried to get away, and in that altercation, than shot dead that white teen, that it would have ended with the police taking the black man words for it and closing the case? That the police wouldn't have seriously doubted the man? That the black man would not have been arrested and a proper investigation would not have taken place? You fail to realize that Trayvon being a black teen in the first place, the reason why no one doubted and or did a proper investigation of the matter at hand was because Trayvon was seen as guilty party. Black man are seen as guilty until proven innocent. The possibility of Trayvon not starting the fight or him defending himself would not have been considered. A white teen would have created that doubt though. It would have lead the police to second guess the black man even though he had wounds. They would have done that because a white teen would have been seen as an individual with his own story, rather than someone who was just asking for it.
And the Obama issue. Obama commented on the issue because 1. he was asked about it in a press conference and so he HAD to give his opinion on it. And his opinion of the matter reflects what many black people see in this issue. Why? Obama is a BLACK man. He is not a white american president. He is a black man and thus shares similar experiences with the black man in this country. Just like many other black americans in this country, we believe Trayvon was racially profiled which is what started the whole mess in the first place. Why do we believe it so strongly that he was racially profiled? Because we all been through it and understand that in the United States, we are viewed as potential criminals and treated as such. It isn't a rare occurrence, it isn't unusual, it is what it is. It doesn't matter what you wear, it doesn't matter if your nice and kind and friendly, it doesn't matter if your a doctor or lawyer, when your black, many people only see one thing: a person who is guilty until proven innocent.
The United States isn't colorblind. Who you are DOES affect how society treats you. A Mexican American will have a different experience from a African American, an Asian American will have a different experience from a European American. That is something that needs to be realized. I'm not going to pretend I know what it is like to be Arabian American or a muslim in this country. I have read some experiences though. How women who walk in hijabs have been spit at, physically pushed or had things thrown to them in public, and how such experiences can be a weekly, sometimes daily occurrence. I am not an Arabian American, but I can understand that they have their own set of challenges being who they are alone. When we all begin to realize this, than we can truly start understanding one another.
How we are generally perceived by people DOES affect your life. It can affect your job, day to day life, where you live, etc. It is endless. Saying racism doesn't matter is ignorant. Obama wasn't trying to be divisive when he gave his opinions on Trayvon Martin. His opinions simply took upon his OWN experiences as a black man in this country, and his sympathy with Trayvon was that of, "I've been there" as far as being followed goes. Being black in the United States is not meaningless nor is it just color. You will be judge solely on your color. Whether or not we as a nation can ever get pass such judgements based on your ethnicity, I have no idea. But I do know that that time is not now.
Just thought the lack of media attention, public outcry or politicians weighing in was interesting, and the law worked as it was supposed to...
http://www.decodedscience.com/roderick-scott-the-black-george-zimmerman-acquitted-of-murder/33569
http://www.decodedscience.com/roderick-scott-the-black-george-zimmerman-acquitted-of-murder/33569
Greenmagick
New Member
lol, that case is totally different...sorry.
Yes, there are plenty of cases that never get media attention. Doesnt make ones that do less tragic or less viable.
A man CATCHES teens, one of whom is at the time drunk AND on drugs, vandalizing cars and confronts them...ends up shooting in self defense. Totally freaking different then a man following and confronting a teen for walking home.
Again, the reason I believe this case originally went viral was because at first there was going to be no further investigation. The case linked was immediately investigated and went to trial. THAT is a huge freaking difference and yes, likely has to do with the color of those involved.
Yes, there are plenty of cases that never get media attention. Doesnt make ones that do less tragic or less viable.
A man CATCHES teens, one of whom is at the time drunk AND on drugs, vandalizing cars and confronts them...ends up shooting in self defense. Totally freaking different then a man following and confronting a teen for walking home.
Again, the reason I believe this case originally went viral was because at first there was going to be no further investigation. The case linked was immediately investigated and went to trial. THAT is a huge freaking difference and yes, likely has to do with the color of those involved.
Except that Zimmerman specifically told the police that he matched the description of a burglary suspect by virtue of being black. So if a white teen dressed the same way, would Zimmerman even have noticed him? He was on the lookout for a black suspect.
sparks19
I'd rather be at Disney
Right but I'm saying if it was white teens committing the crimes. Yes he was targeted because he was black because black teens had been committing the crimes not necessarily because he hated black people or was racist against them. Seeing a black teen acting suspiciously that fit the description of the crime going on isn't anymore racist than a hispanic man seeing white teens that fit the descriptions of those that committed crimes in the neighborhood.
So reasonably, had it been white teens committig the crimes it could have been the same outcome no? And would that be racist?
sparks19
I'd rather be at Disney
Every white teen that he hadn't seen regularly in the required attire acting the required way? I think so. It's not unusual for white teens dressed that way to be seen as suspicious either
Maybe it's ageism
Tahla9999
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Ah, but your not thinking of the affect of being a visible minority. Say, you have a town with 10,000 yellows and 500 reds move in to town. Every now and then, crime occurs caused by a yellow. It is expected, so when crime is reportedly done by a yellow and that yellow is at large, no one really blinks an eye to it. The yellows wont be suspicious of every yellow they see because they know that most yellows aren't anything to worry about and see each yellow as an individual. However, when the news report of a red committing a crime, it is totally different. Since they are so few to begin with, every red is seen as a potential suspect.
Even if white teens were doing the crime, any of them walking about would not be look at with suspicion like a black teen. Why? Because white people are look at as individuals. A white teen walking at night would be given the benefit of the doubt. Probably just walking home from a party or something. Crazy fools among them wont represent the whole group. A story of a white person doing something horrendous and there are comments against that one person. A black person do something horrendous, a good half the comments are against blacks as a whole. We suddenly aren't individuals but all potential criminals. It is that mindset is where the racial profiling begins.
I don't see Zimmerman as racist. I go by the original meaning of a "racist" and I wouldn't call Zimmerman that. I see him as prejudice.
Tahla9999
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The Zimmerman case got the media's attention because Zimmerman was not arrested nor was the case properly investigated even though he shot and killed an unarmed young men.
This dude was actually arrested and charge, THAN he was found innocent. How it should have went with Zimmerman.
Lol? Two teens dead? And not totally different - grown man with gun shoots unarmed 17 yr. old 'child'. The guy didn't have to leave his house, didn't have to confront the teens, didn't have to take his gun with him. Sound familiar?
One difference is that the teen in this case was NOT in physical contact with the man, he was just approaching the man, who felt threatened and shot the kid. Did the man know the kid was drunk? I doubt it. If he did know, then shouldn't he have realized the kid's judgement was impaired and retreated from the situation? New York doesn't have SYG laws.
I would guess another difference is the prosecution didn't withhold evidence from the defense. I don't believe the man or his family had to go into hiding because of death threats during the case or after his acquittal either, so, yeah, I guess you're right - totally different cases.
The police did investigate Zimmerman the next day (walk through the crime scene, interviews, polygraph tests, etc) and didn't find sufficient evidence to contradict his story of self defense. The political pressure brought to bear later because of the color of those involved is the reason a special prosecutor was brought in, BYPASSING a grand jury, and charges were filed.
sillysally
Obey the Toad.
I don't think there is proof that he followed every black kid walking through he neighborhood either. I think the guy was over zealous and exercised poor judgement, but I also think if the only difference in the scenario was that white teen boys where committing crimes and Martin was white the same thing would have happened.
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Greenmagick
New Member
The lol was basically a sarcastic laugh. I am just dumbfounded by comments and posts I have seen around that bring up different cases and are all "but what about this one!"
That one is totally different in my view. There are major differences. Notice I did not say the man was totally justified in killing the teen there either, but the case was not the same.
There are a million bad things that happen. No, not every one gets outrage. Not everyone gets a media circus. Doesn't mean those cases don't matter but it also doesn't mean that this one is less because of it.
That one is totally different in my view. There are major differences. Notice I did not say the man was totally justified in killing the teen there either, but the case was not the same.
There are a million bad things that happen. No, not every one gets outrage. Not everyone gets a media circus. Doesn't mean those cases don't matter but it also doesn't mean that this one is less because of it.