Fenzi Courses

Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
I'll bet they just haven't removed her name from the current courses yet. I doubt they would continue a relationship with her in any form.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
Shaping with Sue - I'm not sure Louis is getting it yet. I mean, I've used a clicker with him for a lot of training so far in his life, but never for pure shaping. I don't think he knows why I keep clicking and treating him for basically just walking around and eating. LOL!
 

Southpaw

orange iguanas.
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
7,788
Likes
1
Points
38
Age
29
Location
Minnesota
I signed up for Drives & Control 2, and was going to keep it in my library and sign up for Drives & Control 1 in December.... but I said to heck with it, and purchased the lecture notes. :eek: I don't usually really watch the other people's videos anyway so it shouldn't make much difference.

It used to be called IPO foundations which is obviously not what I'm pursuing, but something about it just sounded really appealing to me. We'll see!
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
And now I'm really depressed. I just did a short shaping session with my 12 year old shih tzu, who I haven't done any real training or shaping with for about 10 years. I had her going halfway around the chair consistently, in under 2 minutes. Sigh. How do I help Louis make the connection?!
 

Elrohwen

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2013
Messages
1,797
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
And now I'm really depressed. I just did a short shaping session with my 12 year old shih tzu, who I haven't done any real training or shaping with for about 10 years. I had her going halfway around the chair consistently, in under 2 minutes. Sigh. How do I help Louis make the connection?!
My guess is that you're lumping, and waiting for him to offer big correct behaviors. Split the behavior down into even smaller pieces.

How is he "not getting it"? More info might help. Is he sitting there staring at you? Frantically offering behaviors?
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
I had an epiphany - he wasn't moving much (offering much in the way of behaviors) during the session because the space we were working in was too small for him. He's a big guy, and I'm sure he was feeling rather cramped.

I moved to a very open, large space (which normally wouldn't be great for a shaping session as there is too much in the way of distraction). Bingo!!! More space allowed for much more movement, and he DEFINITELY understands at least the beginning of what I want (move around a chair in a clockwise direction). The larger area, and chair sitting much further out, required him to move a lot more, and I was able to click a lot of paw movement in the right direction. I could see the wheels turning in his head. LOL!
 

Elrohwen

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2013
Messages
1,797
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
I had an epiphany - he wasn't moving much (offering much in the way of behaviors) during the session because the space we were working in was too small for him. He's a big guy, and I'm sure he was feeling rather cramped.

I moved to a very open, large space (which normally wouldn't be great for a shaping session as there is too much in the way of distraction). Bingo!!! More space allowed for much more movement, and he DEFINITELY understands at least the beginning of what I want (move around a chair in a clockwise direction). The larger area, and chair sitting much further out, required him to move a lot more, and I was able to click a lot of paw movement in the right direction. I could see the wheels turning in his head. LOL!
That's great! Glad you figured out what he needed.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
In answer to your questions, I should back up a second and describe Louis.

He is a very thoughtful guy. Thinks before he acts. I have rewarded him heavily for calm quiet behavior. In the past, me sitting quietly means I want him to sit or lay down calmly and wait.

Now, I am wanting him to offer behaviors. Paw movement, head movement, whatever. It's not his default, and he's been heavily rewarded for NOT doing that.

What tends to happen in our sessions is that he doesn't offer much for me to click, so our rate of reinforcement is low.Trying to increase it, I end up clicking for a lot of "posing". If he doesn't get it, he pauses and thinks, and looks at me for direction. If I don't give it to him, he lays down (which is what I've always asked of him. Gah).

BUT. By opening up the space a lot, I was able to create an easier environment for him to move. I was able to place the chair further away, and drop treats right in front of myself which was further from the chair, all of which required a lot more movement. And in that 3 minute session, he made more connections than he had in the 6 sessions prior.

Feeling more optimistic!!
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
Man, shaping is hard. LOL! I keep thinking of faster ways to get the behavior in our shaping class, and then having to remind myself that the entire point is learning to shape, and teaching Louis to learn to be shaped, not the speed with which we can acquire a behavior.
 

Elrohwen

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2013
Messages
1,797
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Man, shaping is hard. LOL! I keep thinking of faster ways to get the behavior in our shaping class, and then having to remind myself that the entire point is learning to shape, and teaching Louis to learn to be shaped, not the speed with which we can acquire a behavior.
Yes, pure shaping is really hard. I always want to help them. Hazel is actually pretty good at shaping but Watson finds it frustrating. Probably because I'm a better trainer with her and know what to reward and where to place the reward. I still find it easier to help her.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
I did some shaping with my other dog about 12 years ago, and haven't done much of it since. Not pure shaping, anyway. I'm pretty bad at it. LOL!
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
540
Likes
1
Points
18
Location
Canada
I do better in a classroom environment with face-to-face feedback from an instructor, but I'm tempted to try Rally... I've more or less limited myself to Bronze after shelling out close to $4000 on vet bills this month. But again, I do better face-to-face... but then again, Fenzi's course starts in a couple weeks whereas my local school that I'd like to attend doesn't have a date for their next course yet.

Flarrrr.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
372
Likes
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
I was thrilled with how great the feedback worked with the Gold level class I took with Sue for shaping. I actually found it much better than the in-person classes I've taken locally, as she is focusing in specifically on you, through your videos, and gives very specific advice.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
540
Likes
1
Points
18
Location
Canada
Yeah I for sure can't cough up $260 for a gold spot but I do want individualized feedback so I'm gonna go for classes at my local place.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
66
Likes
0
Points
6
Location
New Zealand
A gold spot is way out of my price range with the US$ and NZ$ exchange rate being so bad at the moment but I am taking 2 classes at Bronze :) They are both new classes so don't really know anything about them except both sounded good.

"Gundog Foundations" with 4 month old Brittany puppy Camo. We sort of made up training Scout who is our first gundog (she is used for upland hunting feather and fur and competes in pointer field trials) as we went along. I am looking forward to Camo learning solid foundation stuff. She is a much easier and more laid back dog than Scout. FAR less "birdy" than Scout was at the same age. We are hopeful she might fill in the hunting jobs Scout is not suitable for...retrieving ducks from a blind and indicating deer.

"Stand with me" with almost 18 month old Border Collie boy Kep. Kep will do CD next year (it has a stand for exam in NZ) as well as Rally Excellent. We did a practice CD run through at obedience class last week. When the judge touched him he hit the deck. Then ran to me and jumped all over me, whining. He is fine with people touching him when I am right there. He was measured for agility yesterday by 2 people, one he knew and one he didn't, and was fine because I was standing right in front of him touching his head. He is a soft dog and a completely devoted Mummy's boy. There are no issues with any of the other exercises so hopefully we can get this sorted.
 

Paviche

Duuuuude.
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
1,297
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Aurora, CO
I'm thinking about taking my first Fenzi class(es) if I can afford them. I want to take the Rally Skillbuilding 1 with Rowan and maybe Engagement with Stitch. Has anyone here taken either of those? Stitch has been very tricky, because he's very focused with no distractions, but add even a mild distraction and he's completely uninterested in me/treats/toys.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest posts

Top