European rotties and dobies.

SizzleDog

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#22
Pretty much anything can get an International championship. They're very pricey to get though - you have to pay out the nose (in fees and entry costs) to get the title.
 

SizzleDog

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#23
It said nothing in regards to neck, chest, or anything of the light. That is the fancy going towards a trend - same as the fancy in the US goes right now for dogs that are overangulated, with such extreme angles they can barely move, with extremely long necks with not enough musculature, etc.
I agree with you there - these are trends, and the trends are different on both sides of the ocean... neither is good IMO.

Looking at the original dobermans 100 years ago, the dobermans being bred today in EITHER country don't resemble them very much, either- the breed has changed. The "American" doberman doesn't look like the "dobes of old" either.
Again I agree. I don't think I said that American dobes looked like the older dobes - at least I didn't mean to imply that. I just see more dobes with American/Canadian breeding (as well as UK dogs) that, to me, vaguely resemble the early German imports. It's a breed, it changes and evolves - it doesn't stay exactly the same no matter which country it's born in.


We need to get to the moderate, solid dogs and they exist on BOTH sides of the atlantic ocean - nice compact dogs, good toplines, good angulation in the front and rear, pleasant to look at.
Totally agree. I'm all for moderate making a comeback... :)
 

JennSLK

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#24
I find in Dobies at least there are 3 distinct types.

South American - Way to many angles

North American - My Personal Preferance. Wich I find IMO that they are more correct

European - Heavy bone, and a bit to clunky.

There is a fine line, as stated before, in nice bone and to much bone that they cant do the job.

Although there are exceptions to eveything
 

zeller

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#25
conformation

dont matter size iv seen large dogs win because they move right some line in dobs are etra large some are small look at mary white s dobs there small but can move right shes always winning look at victor in rotts he sure done his fair share of winnings and cannon river sure was great and many of his lines where winning . you do need the correct conformation all breeds are the same they look different but must have a correct conformation
 

mom2dogs

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#26
dont matter size iv seen large dogs win because they move right some line in dobs are etra large some are small look at mary white s dobs there small but can move right shes always winning look at victor in rotts he sure done his fair share of winnings and cannon river sure was great and many of his lines where winning . you do need the correct conformation all breeds are the same they look different but must have a correct conformation
My head hurts. Can you explain your last statement, in bold, more (with some decent grammar and punctuation, please)?
 

JennSLK

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#27
dont matter size iv seen large dogs win because they move right

Im not sure what you mean exactly but size does matter. There is a writen standard that all dogs are judged against. Yes a large or smaller dog may win but that is because they have fewer faults than the next dog, and yes size is a fault.

zeller;1102512 look at mary white s dobs there small but can move right shes always winning [/QUOTE said:
Quote from the AKC on dobe size:
Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27½ inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25½ inches. The height, measured vertically from the ground to the highest point of the withers, equalling the length measured horizontally from the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh. Length of head, neck and legs in proportion to length and depth of body.
Dobermans are NOT a large breed. Now I am not personaly familure with her dogs. However 24 inches is just 2 feet. So chances are they are standard dobermans. Maybe you are just used to seeing the groescly oversized dobes that alot of BYB's are producing nowdays.
 

zeller

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#28
size

you mean over size ididnt mean that if a dog is over size thejudge can measure and make the dog leave the ring if a dog id good conformation it can look large or small depending on the buildt some dogs are verycompact some are slender but all types they need good conformation
 

JennSLK

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#29
you mean over size ididnt mean that if a dog is over size thejudge can measure and make the dog leave the ring if a dog id good conformation it can look large or small depending on the buildt some dogs are verycompact some are slender but all types they need good conformation
Yes, and height is part of cood conformation. If they are to built they loose what they need to do thier origional job. A rottie looking dobe is NOT a good thing
 

mom2dogs

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#30
you mean over size ididnt mean that if a dog is over size thejudge can measure and make the dog leave the ring if a dog id good conformation it can look large or small depending on the buildt some dogs are verycompact some are slender but all types they need good conformation
Size DOES matter.
 

zeller

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#31
good dogs

most dogscould never do what they were bred for . we truly do not know for sure what different dogs mixed with what way back some breeds have short hocks to do there jobs others can have long hocks illike short hocks on all dogs what position should the hocks have ????
 

mom2dogs

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#32
most dogscould never do what they were bred for .
But the point is to have a dog that resembles what they were suppose to do. Your right - some dogs CAN'T do what they were bred for because it would be illegal. But it doesn't mean the standard needs to sway.

we truly do not know for sure what different dogs mixed with what way back some breeds have short hocks to do there jobs others can have long hocks illike short hocks on all dogs what position should the hocks have ????
Not all dogs should have the hocks like all others? They should conform to THEIR breed's standard, not those of "all dogs."
 

JennSLK

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#33
Id also like to point out that just because a dog wins alot doesnt meen its a great dog. Politics play a large part in shows
 
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Squishy22

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#35
I dont get why some standards do not list proper weight. Does that mean that the dog could be of any weight? What if one person has a different idea of what a "medium" sized dog is than another person?
 
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#36
Because all dogs are different. Some standards do specify a range of weights that they think are appropriate. For instance, I have two dogs, same breed. They are mother and daughter. Both are about equal height (plus or minus 1/2 inch) One weighs 37lbs, the other is 45lbs. Neither one of them carries an ounce of fat. They are just different.

Also, weight isn't as important as the overall size and bone structure. Especially in a working dog.
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#37
When height is outlined in a standard, Medium sized is the middle of the range given.

IMO ideal size for Rottweilers is 24" in bitches and 26 (maybe + a bit) in dogs. But a nice 24" bitch could be from 85 to 105 lbs, probably, depending on body substance, bone, and condition.
 
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#38
^^^ Which partially answers your questions on weight too. My ACD's are between 19 1/2 inches and 20 inches at the shoulder. The largest weights 45 lbs. A rottie at only 4 inches taller weighs 40-60 lbs more. Add 4 inches to an ACD bitch and I would guess it would weigh 60 lbs. Breed/bone etc makes a big difference.
 

showdawgz

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#39
"European" dogs to me tend to be shorter, stockier and more compact. Which makes them look huge, when in reality they are not. But I do agree that first Dobe (couldnt see the rest of the Dobe pics) needs to loose some weight and develope a more defined uptuck.
 
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Squishy22

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#40
Its nice to have knowledgeable people who know a thing or two about breeding/showing here at chaz. I learn something new every day!
 

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