Dog Bite Question

SarahFair

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#1
Hey yall havent been around alot but really need some advice.
If you live in the state of Ga even better...

a horrible incident happend this friday (halloween) between my GSD Rudi and my aunts oversized toy poodle.
Now to give you some backround on the dogs...
Rudi gets along with just about everything (except unwelcomed dogs in our yard) I mean we have a kitten and 2 cats she lightly plays with, we let her out in the yard while the chickens are ranging and all she does is sniff at them. We have another dog and they get along great. She gets along with my dads JRT who dominates her but they play great, she gets along with our friends boxer puppy and another friends pit bull. She does bark at people if they make a quick movement towards her or they just walk in the door but thats her job.

Tess (my aunts dog) is just...well honestly neurotic. My aunt everynight throws it in her pen with a bark collar where it stays till about 3-5 pm and returns to its pen probly around 8-9 pm. On the weekends it might get let out longer. The first time the dogs ever met my aunt brought her in her arms into my dads house where tess was barking at mary and rudi and my aunt just let her down where mary (the alpha dog) asserts her dominance. My aunt freaks out scoops the dog up and takes her home (which I heard you shouldnt pick the dog up everytime it gets scared) The next time the dogs meet they did fine except tess kept picking fights with rudi. Shed snap at her, run into my aunts lap, and presume to bark and nip at her. My dad said the only dog Tess gets along with is his JRT Gent.

Now to what happend this friday...

Mary Rudi (my dogs) and Gent had been playing VERY well for a good 4 hours. My aunt calls my dad to see if my dogs are over there (knowing her dog doesnt get along with anything) and he told her yes. Well she brings the dog over anyways (she lives right through the woods of my dad) So her and her daughter are walking over and just let the dog take off (instead of putting her on a leash). Tess comes hauling up the driveway after Mary and Rudi just barking her head off. Rudi, IMO and others, takes it as a threatening act and defends herself by acting out.
I personally think a dog has a right to protect itself from anything coming after it in a aggressive manner be it another dog, cat, or hampster..Is it not natural instint for a dog to protect itself?
Well so Rudi doesnt back down to Tesses advances and takes off after her. Being a larger dog she catches up before anyone really knows whats happening and has ahold of Tess. From what I see Rudi has Tess by the neck and is just kinda....well not slinging her but shaking her. My cousin runs down the hill (im up in the garage running after them) and kicks rudi away and grabs up Tess. My aunt takes the dog and everyone is kinda laughing at her cause no one likes to dogs for their own reasons. My aunt is yelling 'I dont think its very funny' and Im trying to appologize for what happend. She takes the dog home and we dont hear from her again.
Brandon (my cousins boyfriend) later gets a call from her to come move his car shes taking her dog to the emergancy vet clinic. So he goes over there and says shes got the dog wrapped up in a towel and her tails hanging off..
My aunt was wearing a white jacket with no evidance of blood on it none on my cousin none on my dog none on the driveway, the big freezer, in the house, or in the spot it happend. Infact the dog was even crying in pain.
Well later Brandon gets another call from my Aunt "Tess already has 20 internal stitches and they arent even done yet"
So the next day my dad calls me 'Vivian talked to your aunt and she said tess has 57 stitches cause a tooth got hung up in her and snagged.'
Well I texted my cousin trying to be nice and ask how the dog was and she was like well tess got 27 stitches and there is risk for infection. So I asked her if her mom thinks it all mine and my dogs fault (cause I wanted to call her but not if she was going to attack me) and she was like Um ya its your fault. Tess didnt do it to herself. I told her tess instigated the fight and she went on to tell me it doesnt matter who instigated it that Rudi is dangerous and Im lucky she hasnt bitten one of my kids or someone else (and just a few weeks earlier she was telling me how good rudi was with the kids and how well behaved she was and how she hates her moms dog.... )

I was just wondering if my dog was at fault. If this get dragged out to court I want to be prepared.
She is threatening calling the pound last I heard.
 

HoundedByHounds

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#2
well...both dogs were off leash? Sounds like equal fault to me. You'd have to look up your rules in your area to see if property makes a difference...meaning if the dog never left your property would you be at fault.

shaking injury often leads to internal injuries/bleeding. But if you have to be responsible in part or even wholly...or not by law? Completely depends on your statutes.

I am sorry this happened...off leash dogs can really escalate in the blink of an eye...it's the risk we take with our own multidog household here...I really don't like having other dogs over for that reason...
 

SarahFair

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#3
I was at my fathers house when this occured.
Every dog there was getting along till that one showed up
and every dog still got along as soon as that one left
 

lizzybeth727

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#4
Well, I'm no expert, but....

Yeah, I'd say she does have a good argument that Rudi was at fault - simply because even though Tess "started it," Rudi did finish it and quite possibly could have killed Tess if no one had been there to intervene. Unfortunately, it's usually the larger dogs and/or the breeds known to be dog aggressive that get blamed in this sort of situation. The only chance you have is if you argue that your dog was protecting her property or something, since it happened on your property.... but even that, IMO, is a weak argument.

Hope I'm wrong.

Hope it doesn't go to court or anything and everything calms down soon!
 

perla123

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#6
WOW Sorry that happen to you. For what I can see is not your fault. She shouldn’t let her dog off leach around your dogs especially if she knew how her dog was.

On the other hand. I didn't think that the dog fighting was funny either, no matter what your feeling is towards the dog IMO. I think that 2 dogs fighting is a very serious situation special when one of the dogs got hurt badly.

Good luck. Hope your aunts a dog gets better.
 

lizzybeth727

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#7
Well, there's a lot of other things she could do on the continuum between standing and doing nothing, to picking up the dog and shaking it.

I'm not saying that what your dog did was wrong in MY opinion, I'm just saying what I would expect AC or anyone else to think of the situation.
 

Domestika

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#8
I don't know the legality...but I would say the dog that starts the fight is at fault. I wouldn't expect any dog to necessarily back down when confronted. I don't think it's fair to say that the dog that "finishes" the fight is at fault.

Ideally a dog would only do what was necessary to stop the unwanted aggression and not take it further...but it all depends on how much of a threat the dog perceives the aggressor to be. If the dog being attacked perceives that its life is at risk...it's going to go over the top when fighting back.

Sad situation. :(
 

Doberluv

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#9
If this was on your property (or your Dad's) and she didn't get permission to bring her dog onto your property....AND her dog ran at your dog in a threatening manner which instigated the fight, I don't see how that can be construed as your fault or your dog's fault. He does have a right to defend himself and she should have been taking responsibility for her own dog on someone eles's property. JMO. Call a lawyer and find out. You can usually get a free consultation visit.

This stands out in my mind:
My aunt calls my dad to see if my dogs are over there (knowing her dog doesnt get along with anything) and he told her yes. Well she brings the dog over anyways
Sounds like you got stuck with an unfortuante aunt. I can't imagine anyone in my family taking legal action against me. That's a shame.
 

bubbatd

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#11
Yes , the poodle was being snarky , but I fault Rudi for attacking . A growl and a bark fine ...... but not a shaking . I hope nothing comes of this family wise .
 

SarahFair

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#12
Well first Rudi was nipping and the poodle was biting her face then it escalated to her grabbing her up...
 

bubbatd

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#13
I wasn't there .....I just know that my dogs have been around many little ankle biters .
 
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#15
This stands out in my mind:

My aunt calls my dad to see if my dogs are over there (knowing her dog doesnt get along with anything) and he told her yes. Well she brings the dog over anyways
Sounds like you got stuck with an unfortuante aunt.
I'm with Carrie ... it's the aunt's fault.

She knows her dog is snarky with other dogs ... she calls ahead and finds out the other dogs are there ... yet she brings her dog anyway ... then proceeds to put it on ground loose so that it can confront the other dogs?!? Whatta moron!! Now she wants to blame everybody else for her own utter stupidity?!?

Honestly, what did she expect might happen?!? If she had a working brain cell she woulda left her dog at home.
 

HoundedByHounds

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#16
Well first Rudi was nipping
So in this statement it seems that your dog was the one pushing boundaries or? Hard to derive from your account...the smaller dog ran, which might trigger prey aggro...but then if your dog caught up and the other dog was frightened yes the other dog would nip or bite to stave off being picked up and shaken.

I do agree that picking up and shaking isn't really an act of a dog that is defending, or even putting another "in it's place", but rather...aggressing or with a predetermined agenda to maim/kill. That is an act reserved for prey...so I think your dog was in prey drive at that point.

Cleo will run full tilt after Ellie who is much smaller...Ellie always turns and SNAPS right in her face...and Cleo immediately backs away. But in this situation Cleo is in play rather than prey drive....so I don't know.
 

ihartgonzo

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#17
IMHO, there is a MASSIVE difference between a dog being a snarky brat (regardless of their size) and a dog grabbing another by the neck and shaking it. That is intent to kill, at least that's how I feel about it.

I would be horrified if either of my dogs grabbed a tiny dog by the neck and shook it... and I would pay any and all Vet bills, pretty much regardless of the situation. Being that this is your Aunt you're talking about, I would think it would be in everyone's best interest that you pay the Vet bills and keep your dog under control around hers from now on.

It does not sound like your GSD was "defending herself". Defending herself would have been turning around and growling/snarling/snapping at the Poodle - not chasing her down and shaking her. Did the Poodle do nothing more than run up barking? Was Rudi in immediate danger, or pain, or cornered? I wasn't there, but it does sound like she acted on her prey drive more than anything... and she should be kept on-leash and controlled around small dogs, particularly snarky ones.
 

PoodleMommy

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#19
I dont necessarily think the blame should be placed on your dog... however, if this dog were mine I would be very very concerned about it picking the other dog up by the neck and shaking it. As someone else stated this shows intent to do serious injury at the very least. I would be worried about my dog being near other dogs in the future.
But that is a seperate issue for you to deal with.
 

Doberluv

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#20
I do agree that picking up and shaking isn't really an act of a dog that is defending, or even putting another "in it's place", but rather...aggressing or with a predetermined agenda to maim/kill. That is an act reserved for prey...so I think your dog was in prey drive at that point.
That very well may be. But dogs don't live by our morals or our laws about assault. They have their own ways. If this poodle was on the GSD's property, it is within "normal" for a dog (imo) to do whatever it is he does about things like this, even he does consider the poodle prey. It may seem harsh to our way of thinking or over the top....or "neurotic"..."abnormal" behavior. But dogs aren't us.

Bottom line, the aunt should not have brought her dog there, knowing full and well that it antagonizes every dog it meets (the op said the poodle doesn't get along with any dog). If the poodle made the first move (running fast toward the GSD) then the GSD has a right (according to my version of dog rules :D) to attack, whether it's a defensive stand point or an offensive standpoint. It could have begun as a defensive reaction and evolved into an offensive or prey reaction (which isn't aggression at all) for all we know.

Does this GSD attack any dog that comes onto the property if the other dog is basically minding his own business? Or is it only dogs that run full boar in a frontal approach like it sounds the poodle did?

It would be a nice thing and might stave off more problems to pay for half of the vet bill. But really, I'm inclined to think you're not obligated. But again...I don't really know law.
 

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