Disappointed - made the wrong call

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#21
ripoffreport.com i've seen used before, but I don't know how much traffic it gets.

but personally, i'm a big fan of taking care of business and then letting it go. If you're not going to persue things any further, let it go. You're life will be better for it. You made a mistake, realized it, now do what you feel is necessary for closure and then close it. This woman isn't worth dwelling on and making your days crappy cause she doesn't seem to have the best intentions.
 

smkie

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#22
YOu should file a complaint with someone and everyone that buys from a breeder should find out where that place is and see what it says. YOur wounds may have healed but the puppies are suffering one after another after another and the families with all their high hopes shed dollars to vets keeping crippled sickly dogs alive. It's insane. IT's taking care of business and then letting go that is letting these people get away with it. you loved your pup and the next one will be just as wonderful and it will suffer exactly the same way. ALl so people can profit on your misery and the dog's misery. Makes me want to yank hair and stomp my feet.
 

Domestika

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#23
I'm still looking into filing a complaint with the AKC. I don't know if I should just let it go or do something. I do know through the cocker group I used to be on that it has happened more then once to other people.

Time has healed some of the anger, but whenever I see pictures of Freckles and want to fix it. That is why we went with a spaniel dog, but no more cockers for me. I needed a puppy in great health, and I know that there are no guarantees....

I think the venting is healthy as long as you don't slander.
Yeah, I'm not angry anymore, just sad. I had so much hope for that pup, as I'm sure you did with yours. It's just sad when someone else's actions (or inaction!) make something wonderful into something really upsetting.

I don't know if I would file a complaint...would certainly drudge up a lot of bad feelings! But then I would want to know if a breeder I was considering had done that sort of thing... Hard to say.

Puppies seem to be such a crapshoot. You do the best you can, look into everything, think you're making an educated choice and...even so, you still sometimes get a lemon. Both physically and personality-wise. If I ever did a puppy again (which I seriously doubt I will) it'd be a mutt. And probably after I already had at least one adult rescue. I think having a good role model and mentor really helps with the puppy raising. :)
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#25
I'm still looking into filing a complaint with the AKC. I don't know if I should just let it go or do something. I do know through the cocker group I used to be on that it has happened more then once to other people.

Time has healed some of the anger, but whenever I see pictures of Freckles and want to fix it. That is why we went with a spaniel dog, but no more cockers for me. I needed a puppy in great health, and I know that there are no guarantees....

I think the venting is healthy as long as you don't slander.
What exactly kind of complaint are you going to file with the AKC regarding this breeder? If it has nothing to do with improper registration or illegal behavior at sanctioned events, you have no basis for any complaint.

And Domestika, IMO what that breeder does with the bitch you returned is her business. If you felt that strongly about it, you should have spayed her before you returned her, or put her down.

There are good breeders out there in both GSDs and Cocker Spaniels, but it does require some self education and some time to find them.

No matter how you conduct your breeding program, there will be someone out there who takes issue with it.
 

Domestika

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#26
YOu should file a complaint with someone and everyone that buys from a breeder should find out where that place is and see what it says. YOur wounds may have healed but the puppies are suffering one after another after another and the families with all their high hopes shed dollars to vets keeping crippled sickly dogs alive. It's insane.
Yeah, my adventure with Nova was not cheap, surely. I paid 1200$ for her and another 1500$ in vet bills before I returned her 3 months later.

But of course it's her poor health that concerned me the most. :(

After working at an emergency animal hospital and seeing the same dogs come in for their 2nd or 3rd emergenc c-section...I definitely developed very...opinionated opinions on the "business" of breeding.

I'm sure not everyone will agree, and surely things are not so cut and dry, but breeding should be so much more regulated. Breeders should have apply to breed two animals; of course health testing mandatory. You should have to apply for a license to leave your animal intact. It should be illegal to sell an intact animal to someone who doesn't have a breeding license (meaning very early spay/neuter or longer with breeder). Breeders should have to have homechecks before, during and after producing a litter. Litters should be documented and registered, purebred or not. Breeders should have a maximum number of animals and have a maximum number of litters than can produce in their lifetime.

Of course, there are a billion problems with my utopian version of breeding. :) Namely that the beaucrocracy and policing of this would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, forching the cost of buying a dog to unreasonable limits. And, like anything that is heavily regulated, a black market would form and would probably result in as much if not more suffering for animals than there is now. And all this hoopla would really be punishing all the breeders who already do what they do very well and don't need to be policed.

Just my two cents!
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#27
Thank you Domestika. Apparently you are now speaking for PeTA and HSUS on breeder restrictions. If these types of restrictions are ever imposed on a wide basis, companion dogs will soon be a thing of the past.
 

Romy

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#28
I understand you are kinda virtually kicking yourself but I do want to caution you. This forum is VERY, public and I'd hate to see you brought into anything legal because of what you posted here. True or not...the truth is most of this should be between you and the breeder...and could be construed as harrassment by the right smarmy lawyer.

I fully understand you've not mentioned names...but I think in past posts it's been mentioned at least to a point who you're speaking of.

Just protect yourself...and sometimes it is better to let things go...than to get to the point where you are stuck on one thing and it upsets you this much. Moving on with the knowledge you have is great...and sharing that knowledge is also great when it's done in a way that is protective of yourself ;)

((hug)) I know it's probably annoying what I posted but I really did post it solely to help.
This is good advice (about letting things go), but honestly I do not see where she could get in legal trouble over this. For one thing, someone who is making that much money pumping out unhealthy dogs is NOT going to go after someone for telling the truth, and has thirty pages of medical reports to back up her claims and experiences, plus expert witnesses in the forms of veterinarians and medical specialists. Some random lady making 60,000k + a year on her animals saying "that vet has a screw loose" to a judge vs. the actual medical records and someone with a doctorate saying "that dog is very ill"....wonder who the judge would pick? That would be a major shot in the foot because the breeder would lose. Also, Domestika lives in a foreign country now, and bringing a lawsuit against someone internationally is probably not cheap or easy.

If people can go on Ripoffreport and post blatant lies about breeders like what happened to Molosserworld without her being able to do a thing about it, then I really don't think anything bad will happen to Domestika if she goes around telling the truth of her extremely lousy experience with this breeder and the puppy she purchased. Especially since she hasn't said any names.
 

Domestika

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#29
And Domestika, IMO what that breeder does with the bitch you returned is her business. If you felt that strongly about it, you should have spayed her before you returned her, or put her down.

[...]

No matter how you conduct your breeding program, there will be someone out there who takes issue with it.
Like I said, the breeder assured me she would do everything she could to ensure Nova would be healthy. Though I considered putting her down, I felt I was putting her in good hands, which was my mistake.

And she was too unhealthy to spay before I returned her. She wasn't even able to get her vaccines, so unfortunately I didn't have that option.

It almost sounds like you're saying that you agree with her breeding ethics?
 
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#30
Of course, there are a billion problems with my utopian version of breeding. Namely that the beaucrocracy and policing of this would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, forching the cost of buying a dog to unreasonable limits. And, like anything that is heavily regulated, a black market would form and would probably result in as much if not more suffering for animals than there is now. And all this hoopla would really be punishing all the breeders who already do what they do very well and don't need to be policed.
Yup. Like so many other problems out there, the only REAL solution is an educated public that refuses to support unethical breeders and makes it economically unfeasible for them to continue.
 

Domestika

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#31
Thank you Domestika. Apparently you are now speaking for PeTA and HSUS on breeder restrictions. If these types of restrictions are ever imposed on a wide basis, companion dogs will soon be a thing of the past.
Yes, yes, you and I have already conversed on the topic of breeding restrictions and I thought we decided then that we don't agree. I really don't see the point in continuing the debate.
 

drmom777

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#32
It sounds like the breeder you dealt with was really a bad breeder. But the kind of regulations you are suggesting would be a nightmare. I can't even imagine what would be the result of allowing all dog breeding to be controlled by some government beaurocracy, but I am 100% certain it would be a nightmare.

Thankfully, at this time our government is not set up to be THIS intrusive, and if it ever gets to that point i will be long gone.

You just need to realize that not all bad things should or could be prevented by laws and more government.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#33
Like I said, the breeder assured me she would do everything she could to ensure Nova would be healthy. Though I considered putting her down, I felt I was putting her in good hands, which was my mistake.

And she was too unhealthy to spay before I returned her. She wasn't even able to get her vaccines, so unfortunately I didn't have that option.

It almost sounds like you're saying that you agree with her breeding ethics?
I will not comment on her breeding ethics because I don't know her, have not seen her dogs, nor have I done any research on her breeding ethics. I have heard YOUR side of this story. And we all know how many sides every story has. I have been on the other end of a disgruntled person and an internet smear campaign. This person may be the scum of the earth as far as breeders go, but you returned the dog and it is NO LONGER ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS.
 

Domestika

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#34
If people can go on Ripoffreport and post blatant lies about breeders like what happened to Molosserworld without her being able to do a thing about it, then I really don't think anything bad will happen to Domestika if she goes around telling the truth of her extremely lousy experience with this breeder and the puppy she purchased. Especially since she hasn't said any names.
Wasn't really meant to be such a big deal! Just saw some new info, was irked and ranted. I don't agree with her practises and of course it causes some heartbreak, but I don't think I'm saying anything anyone should knot their knickers over!
 

Domestika

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#35
I will not comment on her breeding ethics because I don't know her, have not seen her dogs, nor have I done any research on her breeding ethics. I have heard YOUR side of this story. And we all know how many sides every story has. I have been on the other end of a disgruntled person and an internet smear campaign. This person may be the scum of the earth as far as breeders go, but you returned the dog and it is NO LONGER ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS.
THANK YOU. THAT IS GOOD TO KNOW.

Yes, I'm aware that the dog is no longer mine. Of course! But I did raise her, love her and care for her and obviously it's going to sadden me a bit if I see her in a less than ideal situation. I can't help but maintain an interest...she started off her little life with me and was my buddy.

Maybe I'm being hard on the woman...she's actually very nice, I just don't agree with some of her choices. I'm not so heartless that I can just return a dog one day and forget about her the next. A very small part of me will always feel like she's my dog, EVEN THOUGH SHE IS NOT.

I am sorry, though, that you've been on the receiving end of unfavourable comments about your breeding/dogs. Like I said in a previous post, there are definitely as many clueless owners as there are breeders. At least as many.
 

Domestika

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#36
I can't even imagine what would be the result of allowing all dog breeding to be controlled by some government beaurocracy, but I am 100% certain it would be a nightmare.

[...]

You just need to realize that not all bad things should or could be prevented by laws and more government.
I'm 100% sure you're right. I don't believe a system like that would ever work, or would work particularly effectively. It's just hard when you see so much suffering...makes me want to clamp down on all the bad-doers!

I definitely don't believe that government control is the way to solve all problems. But when the alternative solution is "people need to be smarter"...well, I don't have a lot of faith in that. :D
 

Romy

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#37
Is she a member of any canadian GSD clubs? Just wondering, because some of the parent clubs require health testing before breeding as part of the club ethics. I have no idea if this would apply to her though.

And while I understand that you have been terribly hurt by all of this, more legislation is not the answer. For one thing different breeds all have different tests that are applicable to their heath issues, so really it should be breed clubs setting guidelines for their members to follow, and the public educating themselves about the potential issues and looking for those tests.
 

HoundedByHounds

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#38
The fact that what she says is true...or not...is actually not anything that matters here, nor is it the point of my post.

I am trying to protect a member that could be doing something that could get her into trouble. Whether a "case" could be proven or not is really NOT the issue. The issue is...the bother, expense, stress, and irritation ANY legal action brings, justified or not. THAT is what I am cautioning for....lordy.

You (general) have a complaint about something...complain to people who can DO something about it. I mean the net is FULL of people complaining...and many times they are complaints that are the sole fault of the person complaining! LOL...

Live and learn...and if you get burned move on...I have been taken for a ride before but when I address these issues with people looking at the same sources...I do so, privately. Better safe, than paying lawyer fees.
 

Domestika

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#39
Is she a member of any canadian GSD clubs? Just wondering, because some of the parent clubs require health testing before breeding as part of the club ethics. I have no idea if this would apply to her though.

And while I understand that you have been terribly hurt by all of this, more legislation is not the answer. For one thing different breeds all have different tests that are applicable to their heath issues, so really it should be breed clubs setting guidelines for their members to follow, and the public educating themselves about the potential issues and looking for those tests.
Honestly, I don't know what clubs she belongs to. My assumption is that she does...but my assumptions have been wrong in the past! What really threw me off was that her dogs were trained for the RCMP. Surely they would require some kind of health testing or something?

Public education would be fantastic. And breed clubs of course know their breed best. I'm all for all of that. Just wish there was a faster way to stop the suffering...NOW! But of course those are perfectly appropriate goals.

I think what would really help though...well, puppies need to be uglier.

I've always said so many of the overbreeding problems would be solved if puppies started out really ugly and boring and then got cuter as they aged. Then people would be less fixated on producing millions and billions of puppies, who now just get old and boring and end up in shelters. If puppies started out pretty lame and uninteresting you'd really only have the most dedicated dog lovers getting puppies. And they would probably be more committed to keeping them their whole life long, as they'd age into adorable, hyper little fluffballs.

Of course, I'm saying this entirely tongue in cheek. Older dogs are lovely and not at all boring. But it's really a shame puppies are so darn cute because they're hard to resist and they end up paying for it later. :(
 

Lizmo

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#40
Also, Nova is now in her breeding program. A dog with all of those ailments...and she sees fit to breed her. Any dog that has been that siginificantly ill (before 5 months of age!) should be spayed and left at that. I wish I had spayed her before I returned her. :( I'm pretty sure they're keeping her for the breeding program for her coat alone. It's quite rare. Doesn't speak to the breeder's dedication to improving the health of the breed.
Wow, on top of having to return Nova, and now this? I'm sure you feel horrible! I'm so sorry. I can't imagine what your feeling right now. :( ***HUGS***
 

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