Dilemma

Romy

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#21
What brand is your security system? Not your monitoring, but the actual system? If you don't know send me a pic of the keypad and I can look and see what the different kinds of sensors are available for that system that can help you.

If you would like.
It's at my brother's house. I'm not sure if it's a professionally installed one or if he put it in himself. He lives out in the woods with a really long driveway, and has cameras and things all along the driveway before you get to the house. The creeper knew so he parked his car far away and walked up the opposite, wooded side of the property.

There are definitely protection orders. One is a DVPO and the other is a criminal no contact order issued by a separate court.

I kind of ruled out rotties, dobermans, beaucerons, etc. because of the SSA potential. I thought boxers had that issue too, but if it's not a problem then they're a possibility.
 

Saeleofu

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#22
I kind of ruled out rotties, dobermans, beaucerons, etc. because of the SSA potential. I thought boxers had that issue too, but if it's not a problem then they're a possibility.
Some boxers do have SSA, but the females don't as often as the males do. I have a feeling it comes down to lines, but I haven't really researched too deeply into it.
 
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#23
You can get a really good UPS that will give you some time, how long would you need, and you would want the monitor plugged into something else since they are high draw. And you would want what's called an on-line UPS, they draw off the battery all the time, so if the power went out it would not shut down and need to be re started it would just keep going until the battery was depleted. A 3500va would give roughly an hour, and you can also get extra betters packs that will give longer if needed.


If you are worried about him cutting the power and disabling you while you sleep there is also ways to make the monitored security system go into alarm and chirp to wake you up.
 

Romy

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#24
So far have the following breeds, if anyone has other ideas let me know!

Azawakh-

Pro
  • Suspicious of strangers
  • Alert barkers
  • LGD in a sighthound body
  • 35-45 lbs
  • Would get along great with the zois
  • Smooth coat

Con
  • No close breeders, I'd have to import from Europe or the other side of NA and wouldn't get to meet/evaluate the puppy beforehand
  • Have no interest in tracking

Fila

Pro
  • Suspicious of strangers
  • Alert barking
  • Guarding ability
  • Prey drive
  • Tracking drive
  • Am friends with a couple of breeders with awesome stable dogs within driving distance, already have a good relationship with them/they're willing to let me have a puppy, would be great breeder support/mentors
  • Smooth coat
  • Should still be alive when my daughter starts dating ;)

Con
  • They can get HUGE
  • May turn out too sharp
  • Boarding could be problematic, one of the breeders offers boarding for families that get puppies from her though and she's not too far away.

Shikoku

Pro
  • Alert barkers
  • Guarding ability
  • Suspicious of strangers/one family dogs
  • 45-ish lbs
  • Biddable and dog friendly, unlike other Japanese spitz breeds
  • Strong prey drive (they are still worked on boar and deer)
  • Strong tracking ability
  • Utilitarian coat
  • There's a breeder within reasonable travel distance

Con
  • Super rare and hard to export, there's only 6 or so stud males in NA so they're freaking expensive.

Awesome cur/cur blend

Pro
Smooth coat
Alert barker
Suspicious of strangers
Guarding ability
Prey drive
Tracking drive
Reasonable size

Con
Surprisingly hard to find around here
Can be a little bit of a crapshoot for SSA/DA
 

Romy

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#25
You can get a really good UPS that will give you some time, how long would you need, and you would want the monitor plugged into something else since they are high draw. And you would want what's called an on-line UPS, they draw off the battery all the time, so if the power went out it would not shut down and need to be re started it would just keep going until the battery was depleted. A 3500va would give roughly an hour, and you can also get extra betters packs that will give longer if needed.


If you are worried about him cutting the power and disabling you while you sleep there is also ways to make the monitored security system go into alarm and chirp to wake you up.
That's awesome! I always assumed that it would just bloop off or something. There are a lot of wind storms and trees around here too, so power outages are a regular occurrence anyway.

I definitely want to do some sort of security system. It's a good idea anyway, being a single mom especially. But hearing that four dogs is doable, well, I really really always wanted a dog to do nosework with. :eek: Super mega bonus if it's a watchdog and wants to help keep the kids safe.
 

Pops2

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#26
Don page over in ID has Stephens stock mt curs. Larry sowa in OR has Tennessee treeing brindles (just mt curs turned into a separate breed). Randy Oller runs the leopard cur registry in CA. Also some BMCs in MT, UT, CA & maybe WA as cow dogs. If they are bred down from anything on Randy Wrights yard they'll hunt fine even though the parents are cow dogs.
ETA if you can get a pup at a good price, I would give the fila serious consideration. A lighter leggier gyp can really motor for a big heavy dog kind of like a dogo in that way.
 
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#27
Tibetan Mastiff? LOL They aren't totally affordable nor are they super expensive. I don't think they are overly snarky (especially if you get a female) and are quite nocturnal (or so I've heard). I don't think they really like to track either.... Needless to mention their protective skills....
 

BostonBanker

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#28
Is a dog and a top notch security system feasible financially? As much as I think "puppy!" is way more fun, I think the best security system you can buy is a much smarter choice.

It won't take a year or three to grow up. It won't need vet care, regularly or emergency. It won't be unable to work because it is sick. It won't cause a bad accident if, in 7 years, your daughter's boyfriend tries to sneak over to visit at night. It won't be that fluke of the litter who has little guarding instinct.

I'd be putting in the security system first (professionally installed, not self installed), then thinking about a guarding dog as a possible back up.
 

FG167

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#29
Get an adult. We have bought several adult GSDs for work and some are ok with other dogs, some are not, some bark, some don't, etc. point is, we knew when we bought them.

Also, security system is awesome, we have one along with GSDs and the security system makes me feel good when we're not there, I don't want anything to happen to my dogs because they were trying to defend the house.
 

xpaeanx

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#30
Is a dog and a top notch security system feasible financially? As much as I think "puppy!" is way more fun, I think the best security system you can buy is a much smarter choice.

It won't take a year or three to grow up. It won't need vet care, regularly or emergency. It won't be unable to work because it is sick. It won't cause a bad accident if, in 7 years, your daughter's boyfriend tries to sneak over to visit at night. It won't be that fluke of the litter who has little guarding instinct.

I'd be putting in the security system first (professionally installed, not self installed), then thinking about a guarding dog as a possible back up.
This x9000000 bajillion. Not saying you can't add a guardy 4th dog, but if I was truly worried about my safety, my first course of action would be a real security system. If you still want an alert dog that's fine, but I wouldn't get it as my main course of action.
 

stardogs

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#31
I feel like, if I had a dog that was hyper aware to things like that I could trust it enough to be able to relax in my own home
A hyper aware dog might not be as helpful as you'd think. Hyper aware dogs bark at nothing often, they can feed anxiety because they jump at any noise, and many don't distinguish between real threats and nonthreats when it comes to their reaction to noise/sights. You could easily end up with a dog that makes you jumpier if you go seeking a dog that is "hyper aware". Please consider this thoroughly before jumping on the idea of a watch dog.

eta: I know you said you don't necessarily want a dog who will act on an intruder, but either way, if you get a guardian breed you'll need to do a lot of work to ensure that the dog can distinguish between threats and nonthreats well. I have met far too many people who skimp on socialization/training in the hopes that it will mean their dog is more wary and thus "more protective" when all they really do is create a fearful mess of a dog.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#32
A hyper aware dog might not be as helpful as you'd think. Hyper aware dogs bark at nothing often, they can feed anxiety because they jump at any noise, and many don't distinguish between real threats and nonthreats when it comes to their reaction to noise/sights. You could easily end up with a dog that makes you jumpier if you go seeking a dog that is "hyper aware". Please consider this thoroughly before jumping on the idea of a watch dog.

eta: I know you said you don't necessarily want a dog who will act on an intruder, but either way, if you get a guardian breed you'll need to do a lot of work to ensure that the dog can distinguish between threats and nonthreats well. I have met far too many people who skimp on socialization/training in the hopes that it will mean their dog is more wary and thus "more protective" when all they really do is create a fearful mess of a dog.
Some days my malinois give me a heart attack when they blow off the handle at dogs walking in our front yard or Denis reentering the bedroom from the hall bathroom (we aren't sure why but they really, really distrust people coming back from this room). On the flip side it amazes me what they will let pass some days like the mailman coming to the front door sometimes merely warrants a glance and the other day Denis went out in the front yard and returned sight unseen after 5 minutes and the dogs didn't even blink while I had to yell from the next room to confirm it was him.

My point is these are protection trained dogs from a guard breed that sometimes DO fluke and having a security system is important if you have a valid threat. We enjoy the fact our malinois are guard dogs and protection dogs but there are times, especially while they are maturing and working out the kinks, that they have be more trouble than people expect.
 

AdrianneIsabel

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#33
Oh, lol, and be careful what you wish for. :p This morning I am running on fumes because we have a house guest who got up to pee and/or get water about 3 times last night and each time my two knuckle heads lost it in the bedroom because they're used to a stilled house now that we live alone and movement at night in the house is strictly forbidden, it MUST be a robbery!

I'm all for getting a fourth, like a said, if that suits you and I own my dogs with a certain amount of reasoning for protection work but they do come with draw backs sometimes, they're not as simple as a security system as you know.
 

Laurelin

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#34
I am sorta having this problem too. I know what two breeds I'd like to own next will be. I don't know which I want first and four dogs is a lot. I think I'm going to go with the breed that will fit my current two best first. Probably wont add the third breed until summer is gone.
 

JennSLK

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#35
If you want just a alert dog have you thought about a border collie or a ausie? the ones I know will bark if you come in the yard.
 

noludoru

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#36
Is a dog and a top notch security system feasible financially? As much as I think "puppy!" is way more fun, I think the best security system you can buy is a much smarter choice.

It won't take a year or three to grow up. It won't need vet care, regularly or emergency. It won't be unable to work because it is sick. It won't cause a bad accident if, in 7 years, your daughter's boyfriend tries to sneak over to visit at night. It won't be that fluke of the litter who has little guarding instinct.

I'd be putting in the security system first (professionally installed, not self installed), then thinking about a guarding dog as a possible back up.
I am going to wholeheartedly agree with this. Security system or a tall electrified fence. Something strong enough to **** him up, but not enough to kill. Also, motion detector lights EVERYWHERE. They are super annoying in the country but will allow the dogs to handle it as they see fit - you're a brilliant trainer and I think with a little work you could establish that animals are not something to bark at, but people are something to flip out over. After about a year or so the local animals start avoiding the lights, so eventually that wouldn't be a problem.

If you do decide on the dog, my vote is Fila. I don't want to jump on the blind "EVERYONE should get a Fila because they're so awesome!!1!!1" bandwagon we had going a few years ago, but they seem like the obvious choice. They have the least cons. They literally can do everything you listed and then some. They are hopelessly devoted to their families, especially their kids. They were bred to herd, guard, track, and take down threats without killing them. (It would probably cause more problems than it would solve if FutureDog stepped past the alerting and threat display only to kill or maim the douchecanoe. It would serve him right, of course, but you don't want to have to hide a body or explain to the kids why their dog is being PTS.)

The cons can be dealt with. Size? Get a female, keep her in a box, and feed her coffee. :p They don't seem to eat much, though, so the only downside is going to be medication and ability to put into a two-seater. Too sharp? Your breeder can pick the right one from the litter or advise you against a certain breeding. That's a risk you run with a lot of breeds, anyway.

They are readily available to you through excellent breeders, you'll have support and boarding, and won't be crazy expensive. Plus, you can meet and evaluate the bitch and the dog for yourself. That would be enough to convince me.
 

Romy

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#37
Definitely a security system is the top priority, and will go in before adding a guardy dog. Hopefully before futureborzoipuppy is born too.

I like some aussies that I've met. A lot of them have been really nervy and fearful which bothers the heck out of me. Then once in a while I meet a stable one with an good owner that socialized the crap out if it, and it's awesome. That would be a possibility. Are they prone to SSA? I kind of got that impression but am not really sure now.

As far as hyper awareness, the reason I'm hoping for a LGD type is I've found (and been told by a lot of LGD owners) that when you get a really stable one and do all the proper socialization and training, they're independent and smart enough to discern what is worth barking at and what is normal. So things like squirrels on the roof are meh, guys in hoodies lurking on the porch are things to rage at, etc.

That's also the reason I strongly prefer to start out with a puppy. All my dogs go out and meet 100 friendly strangers by 15 weeks with continued socialization. It's just house policy. lol. The two zois are absolutely bombproof. They go to professional fireworks displays, motorcycle rallies, speedboat races, parades, every kind of crowded horribly noisy thing you can think of and do great. A big part of that is I was super picky with temperament when getting a puppy, but I think the other was just lots of socialization and training.

Stephy did an amazing job with Katalin. I'm really impressed with how she's able to read people and discern whether they're a threat and apply appropriate force. She's also really good at generalizing "types" of people.

We had a cable guy come out to fix something. The entire time she barked and raged at him. By the time he left she finally started to believe us when we said, "it's okay! We want him here!"

A week later they had to come back and fix something else. Different guy, same uniform and van. She woofed to let us know he'd showed up, then because he was the same "type" that was accepted before sat and watched him intently in total silence while he worked. UNTIL he brought out a ladder and climbed up to the roof. That was different and weird so she let us know he was doing something odd. After we said it was okay she calmed down and continued watching.

She's been really consistent about it too. At first all cats were barked at. Within a week she learned which cats are ours and "adopted" them. Then she learned that we don't mind the neighbor cats and strays getting a snack, so watches them happily while they eat on the porch. Now she's decided that every. single. cat. in the entire neighborhood is under her protection. A few nights ago she went ballistic at the door at midnight, so we went out to see what was the problem and a neighbor cat was cornered across the street by a pack of growling raccoons. We chased them off and she was happy again.

Just lots of little things like that. When she ran off the prowlers she never made physical contact, just put on a huge show and chased them to the edge of the property. I think that if they'd kept pushing her she probably would have increased her force to match, but it's nice to see that she understands how much is too much, and how much is just right.
 

Romy

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#38
I am going to wholeheartedly agree with this. Security system or a tall electrified fence. Something strong enough to **** him up, but not enough to kill. Also, motion detector lights EVERYWHERE. They are super annoying in the country but will allow the dogs to handle it as they see fit - you're a brilliant trainer and I think with a little work you could establish that animals are not something to bark at, but people are something to flip out over. After about a year or so the local animals start avoiding the lights, so eventually that wouldn't be a problem.

If you do decide on the dog, my vote is Fila. I don't want to jump on the blind "EVERYONE should get a Fila because they're so awesome!!1!!1" bandwagon we had going a few years ago, but they seem like the obvious choice. They have the least cons. They literally can do everything you listed and then some. They are hopelessly devoted to their families, especially their kids. They were bred to herd, guard, track, and take down threats without killing them. (It would probably cause more problems than it would solve if FutureDog stepped past the alerting and threat display only to kill or maim the douchecanoe. It would serve him right, of course, but you don't want to have to hide a body or explain to the kids why their dog is being PTS.)

The cons can be dealt with. Size? Get a female, keep her in a box, and feed her coffee. :p They don't seem to eat much, though, so the only downside is going to be medication and ability to put into a two-seater. Too sharp? Your breeder can pick the right one from the litter or advise you against a certain breeding. That's a risk you run with a lot of breeds, anyway.

They are readily available to you through excellent breeders, you'll have support and boarding, and won't be crazy expensive. Plus, you can meet and evaluate the bitch and the dog for yourself. That would be enough to convince me.
Ack! If you feed the fila want I won't be able to resist it. :p

Seriously though, I'd wanted a fila so bad for so long, and wrote it off as something that would never ever happen because my SO at the time was so dog-dumb I was afraid he would really mess the dog up and someone would get really hurt.

Now that things are different though, it keeps coming back. While driving home today I kept thinking of how it could work, rehashing old plans, etc.

If I do get a fila, I want to put in a 6' wrought iron fence around the main yard. It'll cost a ton, but I think it'll be worth it. Then I planned to plant a rugosa rose hedge on the fence as a visual barrier and a deterrent to idiots who stick their hands through fences. It grows super dense, has wicked thorns, smells awesome and has good tasting rose hips too.


The one fila breeder who offers boarding knows that if she has an undersized female born I want to be notified immediately. She offered me second pick of her last litter, but the timing just wasn't good on our end. Her dogs are from the same lines as Kharma and Brutus too. <3 I adore the sire.

2 seater? :rofl1: I already have 2 kids and 2 zois. Full size van is the next step.

I like the idea of an electric fence too. Been looking into solar powered setups to keep chickens and bunnies and catfish safe from raccoons, and something like that would work really well along the top of a fence. Yay!

And the tracking and hunting! We could totally be hunting buddies! And look for stuff! If I have enough time at that point (ha ha!) I might even be able to train her for the evidence search team. Or I can train her to find edible mushrooms and stuff. nom nom nom. So many possibilities.
 

noludoru

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#39
I'm tired so this is short... But seriously, you have been feeding myZoi want at every turn. No blame allowed for me feeding your Fila want. No reason for you not to get one except for size... And let's face it, 110lb dog is more intimidating than a 50lb dog.
 

Romy

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#40
I'm tired so this is short... But seriously, you have been feeding myZoi want at every turn. No blame allowed for me feeding your Fila want. No reason for you not to get one except for size... And let's face it, 110lb dog is more intimidating than a 50lb dog.
How about you get a zoi and I'll get a fila, and we call it even.

Both zois are 31" and weigh 75-85 lbs depending on whether they're at field or bench weight. I look at them and think, holy crap a 130 lb dog would be HUGE.

But then I look at my boss's lab. He's oversized but doesn't seem big to me. He's an athletic 105 lbs and is maybe 26-27"? If that? He's weird because he's super barrel chested and blocky so that he looks overweight at first glance, and then you realized he does have a tuckup, and you can see his ribs, and that he's ripped. I imagine a 100 lb. fila would be similar. And Katalin seems small to me compared to the zois, but she weighs about the same as Kaia when I pick them both up. I think Kaia was 82 last time I weighed her. So maybe the size isn't as big of an issue. I just know I really don't want a 160+ lb. male. lol
 

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