Chaz Moms and Moms-to-Be Chat (everyone welcome)
- Thread starter jenv101
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what do you do about the majority of flu vaccine recipients that develop no immunity, not even the 3-6 month variety? or is just getting the jab ok? how about the asymptomatic carriers of pertusssis? Especially for everyone vaccinated after the early 1990's when they moved from the whole to partial cell vaccine? is just having them in their papers to show you OK? what about if you bump into a asymptomatic, fully vaccinated person at the store and go home a carrier? can you enter? how will you know?
and offering them at the hospital for anyone wanting to enter to visit? do you people even think? How long do you think it takes for an immune response?????? the 3 minutes it takes to walk up to the room? How gullible are people? (that's rhetorical)
It's amazing to see how attitudes keep changing and they keep hammering on them to get them where they want you to be, and here we sit with one of the worst infant mortality rates in the industrial world, just above countries that still give birth in the dirt. and we vaccinate against more, give them more often and have the most resources on earth. Clearly we're doing it all right?
and offering them at the hospital for anyone wanting to enter to visit? do you people even think? How long do you think it takes for an immune response?????? the 3 minutes it takes to walk up to the room? How gullible are people? (that's rhetorical)
It's amazing to see how attitudes keep changing and they keep hammering on them to get them where they want you to be, and here we sit with one of the worst infant mortality rates in the industrial world, just above countries that still give birth in the dirt. and we vaccinate against more, give them more often and have the most resources on earth. Clearly we're doing it all right?
Good lord, settle down man!
I'm trying to cover my bases by requiring the vaccines at least 3 weeks prior to a visit. I go to events with non vaxxers, but I'm not going to take a <2 week old out there until maternal antibodies are installed.
Now about the non-immunity folks - care to share a link to that info? Preferably with citations. Because I'm not the type to believe everything I read on the internet but I am curious.
I'm trying to cover my bases by requiring the vaccines at least 3 weeks prior to a visit. I go to events with non vaxxers, but I'm not going to take a <2 week old out there until maternal antibodies are installed.
Now about the non-immunity folks - care to share a link to that info? Preferably with citations. Because I'm not the type to believe everything I read on the internet but I am curious.
I'm a fairly chill guy,so I'm good. I just asked some questions
what non immunity? the waning on the dtap and asymptomatic carriers or the dismal history of the flu shot in which they vaccinate 50% more of the population today than before and it hasn't changed anything. and can we really call anything that only gives a short rise in antibody response in some individuals for 3-6 months, even fewer for a year, and essentially zero at 3 years " immunity" to anything?
sorry I asked questions. The odds of anything happening by vaccinating or not vaccinating are 10's to 100's to 1000's of times less likely than what could happen in the car on the way home. I'd be more afraid of getting a C.diff infection at a hospital. That's a real threat.
anyway, I'm pretty sure i won't be getting an invite to visit the baby so does it really matter what I think? Carry on
what non immunity? the waning on the dtap and asymptomatic carriers or the dismal history of the flu shot in which they vaccinate 50% more of the population today than before and it hasn't changed anything. and can we really call anything that only gives a short rise in antibody response in some individuals for 3-6 months, even fewer for a year, and essentially zero at 3 years " immunity" to anything?
sorry I asked questions. The odds of anything happening by vaccinating or not vaccinating are 10's to 100's to 1000's of times less likely than what could happen in the car on the way home. I'd be more afraid of getting a C.diff infection at a hospital. That's a real threat.
anyway, I'm pretty sure i won't be getting an invite to visit the baby so does it really matter what I think? Carry on
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I do think the flu vaccine is ridiculously over-pushed. I definitely believe it can help, but not very much, and it does give people a false sense of security. But at least we won't get the two or three strains of flu it protects against.
They aren't giving shots at the hospital to protect the babies in the hospital. They offer it to people who are going to have regular close contacts with the infants over the next couple of months. They don't stab you with the vaccine as a precautionary thing before you enter the maternity ward. But if someone comes to visit you at the hospital, say, grandma who is going to watch the baby weekly for the next year, they have the opportunity to ask for the vaccine while there.
I'm not a candidate for the pertussis vaccine, and I often hear the very stupid argument "if vaccines work so well why do you have to worry about other people getting them?". Um, because people like myself, my newborn, and my immune compromised grandmother can't get the vaccines, so I like living in a world where carriers of the disease are greatly reduced.
As far as immunity being so reduced after 3 years, I'd like to see some sources for that. Except for vaccines that aren't expected to last that long or change, I'm fairly certain that's inaccurate. I've been titer tested 15-20 years after recieving various vaccines, and still had immunity to chicken pox, diphtheria, tuberculosis, and a slew of other things.
And even if the immunity did only last 3-6 months or 3 years? That's protecting children during their most vulnerable time period. Even if dtap and others were known and advertised as only lasting 6 months, I'd still give it to my child.
They aren't giving shots at the hospital to protect the babies in the hospital. They offer it to people who are going to have regular close contacts with the infants over the next couple of months. They don't stab you with the vaccine as a precautionary thing before you enter the maternity ward. But if someone comes to visit you at the hospital, say, grandma who is going to watch the baby weekly for the next year, they have the opportunity to ask for the vaccine while there.
I'm not a candidate for the pertussis vaccine, and I often hear the very stupid argument "if vaccines work so well why do you have to worry about other people getting them?". Um, because people like myself, my newborn, and my immune compromised grandmother can't get the vaccines, so I like living in a world where carriers of the disease are greatly reduced.
As far as immunity being so reduced after 3 years, I'd like to see some sources for that. Except for vaccines that aren't expected to last that long or change, I'm fairly certain that's inaccurate. I've been titer tested 15-20 years after recieving various vaccines, and still had immunity to chicken pox, diphtheria, tuberculosis, and a slew of other things.
And even if the immunity did only last 3-6 months or 3 years? That's protecting children during their most vulnerable time period. Even if dtap and others were known and advertised as only lasting 6 months, I'd still give it to my child.
natural influenza infections have shown antibody response for 90 years and more. It is commonly accepted among healthcare professionals that flu jab antibodies are elevated and last for only about a year or less. A lot of stuff shows 3-6 months and very little shows anything lasting out to year 3. I don't have a specific study, as most of them are in testing ways to get a better immune response and the need to "prime" immune systems of the elderly and the young. antibodies are commonly found to drop within 3-6 months and most of these studies do not even last a year, for fairly obvious reasons to the researcher, as they usually don't find them after that.
and when most of these studies are talking about "strong antibody response" that lasts 4-7 months and not 4-7 years that should speak loudly to people. and when all the "new" research is in trying to "prime" the elderly and young to see if a shot in November can continue to offer protection past the following March, that should also say something. But i'm not aware of any that just track how long the antibodies last. I can tell you there's a reason they suggest you get it every year and it's not because it's always changing. I guess you'll have to come to your own conclusion on that.
same for waning Pertussis antibodies. search the difference between partial cell and whole cell vaccine when it was made and what has happened since. you can read from someone else about there being data showing none of us are essentially are immune after year 14 from vaccination. But don't take my word for it. search it and read. There are a lot of different thoughts on it, I don't believe any of them are completely at fault either, but the end result is the same.
Same with our "measles" epidemic last year. These have been fairly common and recurring for 50 years, yet the country was in a frenzy about it last year. Like it's been any different in the past. There's a very concerted effort to create perceptions in people about vaccination to get exactly what we have here. Family members mandating health care choices to simply be a part of each others lives.
at a time when people are more disconnected than ever, they keep driving the wedge.
http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstra...n_of_Immunity_Against_Pertussis_After.11.aspx
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/e1047.short
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1200850
and when most of these studies are talking about "strong antibody response" that lasts 4-7 months and not 4-7 years that should speak loudly to people. and when all the "new" research is in trying to "prime" the elderly and young to see if a shot in November can continue to offer protection past the following March, that should also say something. But i'm not aware of any that just track how long the antibodies last. I can tell you there's a reason they suggest you get it every year and it's not because it's always changing. I guess you'll have to come to your own conclusion on that.
same for waning Pertussis antibodies. search the difference between partial cell and whole cell vaccine when it was made and what has happened since. you can read from someone else about there being data showing none of us are essentially are immune after year 14 from vaccination. But don't take my word for it. search it and read. There are a lot of different thoughts on it, I don't believe any of them are completely at fault either, but the end result is the same.
Same with our "measles" epidemic last year. These have been fairly common and recurring for 50 years, yet the country was in a frenzy about it last year. Like it's been any different in the past. There's a very concerted effort to create perceptions in people about vaccination to get exactly what we have here. Family members mandating health care choices to simply be a part of each others lives.
at a time when people are more disconnected than ever, they keep driving the wedge.
http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstra...n_of_Immunity_Against_Pertussis_After.11.aspx
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/e1047.short
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1200850
I was fully vaccinated as a child and teenager. I was also breastfed and a very healthy child. To this day I still think that I have a strong immune system. I've never had a flu shot or anything more than the absolutely mandatory vaccines to attend primary school and college (I'm 27, so aside from a tetanus shot I got about three years ago after an accident, I'd say I haven't had vaccines in at least ten years).
My only preventative plan for protecting my unborn child is breastfeeding/limited exposure the first two weeks of life. And really my primary reason for limited exposure is to bond with my baby and not have a million people over. Luckily our extended family lives far away, so only myself, my husband, and my parents will likely see the baby the first two weeks.
Everyone has to do what they're comfortable with. I enjoy reading the differing opinions and the philosophies behind them. As with any aspect of raising children, most ideas/suggestions are sort of controversial. But discussion breeds understanding and knowledge, so I'm all for it.
My only preventative plan for protecting my unborn child is breastfeeding/limited exposure the first two weeks of life. And really my primary reason for limited exposure is to bond with my baby and not have a million people over. Luckily our extended family lives far away, so only myself, my husband, and my parents will likely see the baby the first two weeks.
Everyone has to do what they're comfortable with. I enjoy reading the differing opinions and the philosophies behind them. As with any aspect of raising children, most ideas/suggestions are sort of controversial. But discussion breeds understanding and knowledge, so I'm all for it.
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anyone do anything other than they're comfortable with.
I just see a very concerted effort to create exactly this type of scenario among people where it's family members against family members, friends at school can no longer play, kids need to be separated on teams by vaccination status. They don't want co-workers to feel comfortable working next to the person they worked next to for the past 20 years. They want people to pressure everyone around them to "keep them safe".
I think it's sad and scary because there are 2 things that are absolutely true. You can be healthy without a vaccine, and some people, as rare as it may be, do have severe and life altering reactions. and yes people can have severe and life altering reactions to a disease if they aren't vaccinated and some even when they are. But regardless, there is risk everywhere and the choice to just get in a car is 10's to 100's to 1000's of times more dangerous than this issue. as far as i'm concerned, if you get in a car, you have no business talking about vaccination and risk from not. A completely man made and used to be hospital only disease in resistant C. diff is now seemingly infecting people outside of hospitals. Killing in the 10's of thousands every year, yet the narrative is to freak out over 200 cases of measles. A disease we used to laugh about on the brady bunch. The disease that was almost welcomed because there no shots, no nasty medicines and they could take 2 weeks off of school and play games.
I don't like where this is headed and I know enough to know I do not trust the gov't to keep my best interest at heart nor an industry that stands to make billions and billions more by pushing the narrative they are. People might think i'm anti-vaccine, but it's more, i'm anti-the way we do it.
I think new parents should stay home with kids, at least for a year at least 90% of the time. I think they all should be breastfed for at least 18 months, preferably 2 years. I think mom's need to quit eating crap, dad's too. I don't think most shots, or I will say all shots should not start till at least 18 months of age, preferably 2 years of age. Blood brain barrier is mostly intact, immune system has developed with the help of maternal antibodies protecting them in times of need. The nervous system is mostly mature. I think they should be screened before giving. I think whole cell is more dangerous, especially for younger, so I like older. I think they offer better immunity and life long, but they are with more risk in theory. But I'd say using chemical adjuvant to illicit immune response comes with it's own risk, but that's another story.
It keeps our very young safe and still reduces wild type variants in older child and adult populations. But this would require society to change, and who wants that? They want their stuff, they want their freedom, they want what they want.
No vaccine offers full protection life long and we need a better system than just keep adding shots to the young and old alike to "cover our bases"
anyway, i've probably hijacked enough, lets get those new babies here. They're more interesting anyway.
I just see a very concerted effort to create exactly this type of scenario among people where it's family members against family members, friends at school can no longer play, kids need to be separated on teams by vaccination status. They don't want co-workers to feel comfortable working next to the person they worked next to for the past 20 years. They want people to pressure everyone around them to "keep them safe".
I think it's sad and scary because there are 2 things that are absolutely true. You can be healthy without a vaccine, and some people, as rare as it may be, do have severe and life altering reactions. and yes people can have severe and life altering reactions to a disease if they aren't vaccinated and some even when they are. But regardless, there is risk everywhere and the choice to just get in a car is 10's to 100's to 1000's of times more dangerous than this issue. as far as i'm concerned, if you get in a car, you have no business talking about vaccination and risk from not. A completely man made and used to be hospital only disease in resistant C. diff is now seemingly infecting people outside of hospitals. Killing in the 10's of thousands every year, yet the narrative is to freak out over 200 cases of measles. A disease we used to laugh about on the brady bunch. The disease that was almost welcomed because there no shots, no nasty medicines and they could take 2 weeks off of school and play games.
I don't like where this is headed and I know enough to know I do not trust the gov't to keep my best interest at heart nor an industry that stands to make billions and billions more by pushing the narrative they are. People might think i'm anti-vaccine, but it's more, i'm anti-the way we do it.
I think new parents should stay home with kids, at least for a year at least 90% of the time. I think they all should be breastfed for at least 18 months, preferably 2 years. I think mom's need to quit eating crap, dad's too. I don't think most shots, or I will say all shots should not start till at least 18 months of age, preferably 2 years of age. Blood brain barrier is mostly intact, immune system has developed with the help of maternal antibodies protecting them in times of need. The nervous system is mostly mature. I think they should be screened before giving. I think whole cell is more dangerous, especially for younger, so I like older. I think they offer better immunity and life long, but they are with more risk in theory. But I'd say using chemical adjuvant to illicit immune response comes with it's own risk, but that's another story.
It keeps our very young safe and still reduces wild type variants in older child and adult populations. But this would require society to change, and who wants that? They want their stuff, they want their freedom, they want what they want.
No vaccine offers full protection life long and we need a better system than just keep adding shots to the young and old alike to "cover our bases"
anyway, i've probably hijacked enough, lets get those new babies here. They're more interesting anyway.
Pretty much reflects my views/thoughts...only I'm 30 and we have zero family near.
I wish this was possible. I wish the US would take a page out of other countries' books on maternity leave...so much.
IMG_02081.jpg by Falon Gray Markow, on Flickr
I think new parents should stay home with kids, at least for a year at least 90% of the time.
anyway, i've probably hijacked enough, lets get those new babies here. They're more interesting anyway.
anyway, i've probably hijacked enough, lets get those new babies here. They're more interesting anyway.
We are very blessed with Brian's job and the ability for me ti stay home the last 8 years and many years in the forseeable future. It has had great benefits for not only Hannah but me as well!
We decided todo Hannah's shots on schedule. I don't know yet if we will or won't with the new one.
I have my first appointment on the 15th but that's mostly just to go over medical history and family history, etc. I'm going to schedule a first trimester ultrasound with a local non profit that helps at risk women and also provides training opportunities for US techs.
We decided todo Hannah's shots on schedule. I don't know yet if we will or won't with the new one.
I have my first appointment on the 15th but that's mostly just to go over medical history and family history, etc. I'm going to schedule a first trimester ultrasound with a local non profit that helps at risk women and also provides training opportunities for US techs.
Honestly, we're likely going to be doing selective and spread out schedules for non-core vaccines for the munchkin himself. The vaccine schedule differences between the 80s and today are a bit mind boggling, though I have had some good discussions about the differences in manufacturing practices with several pediatricians. For sure we're putting off HepB and Chicken Pox vaccines for a bit. The doc we picked is well known for being very individualized with her vaccine schedules and that's what I really want - someone who looks at the individual situation when deciding what makes sense, discusses pros and cons, and then applies that info to real life.
The vaccine requirement for family is purely because of how close to birth they are visiting and the fact that munchkin is being born during peak flu season with people traveling a long distance to visit - everyone has been very understanding and no family discord has been created.
I, too, really wish that the US offered paid maternity (and paternity, too for that matter) leave like so many other first world countries. It's quite ridiculous to expect families to go back to work like nothing has changed so soon after birth!
The vaccine requirement for family is purely because of how close to birth they are visiting and the fact that munchkin is being born during peak flu season with people traveling a long distance to visit - everyone has been very understanding and no family discord has been created.
I, too, really wish that the US offered paid maternity (and paternity, too for that matter) leave like so many other first world countries. It's quite ridiculous to expect families to go back to work like nothing has changed so soon after birth!
