Cesar Milan - cult?

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#1
Not so much here, but elsewhere I've noticed the type of people who used to shriek "use NILIF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" every time someone asked a training question have now become obsessively attached to this guy. Not to knock either method/guy, but why do some people have to treat *everything* like a fashion trend?
 

Gempress

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#2
Admittedly, I've never watched much of Cesar. But the things I have seen haven't really impressed me. He does have a good knowledge of dogs, but hardly the "dog whisperer" he's billed as. All the stuff I've seen just seems..."well, duh!" to me.

For example, if the dog is too hyper...take it for walks! Tada, miracle! Or if the dog shreds the mail coming through the mail slot....correct the dog when it tries to shred, and reward it when it ignore the mail! Tada, another miracle! See what I mean? Nothing miraculous, just common sense.

I compare him to those Nanny 911 and Supernanny shows. These parents say their children are uncontrollable. The nanny just starts using time-outs, enforcing the parents' position as the authority figure, and not tolorating misbehavior. And the parents go on camera and call her a "miracle worker." :rolleyes: It's just common sense, not much more.
 

RD

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#3
Exactly, Gempress. Miracle worker? Maybe to people who can't tell a dog from a kangaroo. I almost always agree with what he says but it is not a miraculous fix, it's common sense.

I will never treat the way I train my dogs as a fashion trend. I do what works, and yes on occasion I try something new (you don't know what works until you try it!) but no way am I going to recommend something that is a waste of time, just because a ton of people are doing it.
 

lapdog

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#4
There's always something to be learned every day. I am impressed with some of the subtlties I've learned from just a few shows, like eye contact, posture, etc. Things like that can make or break your training.
 
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#5
Yes, all those people are simply showing common sense - something many people don't have. IMO it's more about teaching the owner or parent owner/parent what to do than it is teaching the child or dog what to do.
 

Mordy

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#6
NILIF has been around much longer than just since Cesar has become popular...
 

Angelique

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#7
Mordy said:
NILIF has been around much longer than just since Cesar has become popular...
And old school Koehler, which contains some of the same basic principles as NILIF, has been around even longer! :D

I think Cesar is great. His book arrives tomorrow...I can't wait.
 

Brattina88

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#9
gaddylovesdogs said:
Yes, all those people are simply showing common sense - something many people don't have. IMO it's more about teaching the owner or parent owner/parent what to do than it is teaching the child or dog what to do.
I agree!



I'm curious to know if you guys like Dr. Phil ??? ;)
 

BigDog2191

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#11
Actually, yeah most the times he's dealing with someone who just needs common sense.

But I'm thorougly impressed with how he handles very aggressive dogs. He rehabilitated a highly-aggressive male Jindo. And with an interesting tactic I hope to try one day... not on my dog though :D
 
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#13
I do watch his show occasionally, just to see how some people behave with their dogs, not so much for what Cesar can offer me, but mostly how he interacts with the owners.....he's very perseptive of their emotional needs they are trying to fulfill through dog ownership, most don't understand the concept of being the Alpha...which I find distrubing that so many people have dogs and don't have a clue on how to train them....
 

rottnpagan

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#14
I can't stand him, I think he's doing things that stupid people are going to try and end up losing their face over.

I pump out NILIF. ALWAYS. And you'll never see me yelling, 'Watch Cesar! Alpha roll him!' Never, ever.
 

Mordy

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#15
I must say I was less than impressed when I heard that many of the dogs "rehabilitated" by Cesar worked well for him, but fell back into their old ways at home with the owner.
 

Angelique

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#16
rottnpagan said:
I can't stand him, I think he's doing things that stupid people are going to try and end up losing their face over.

I pump out NILIF. ALWAYS. And you'll never see me yelling, 'Watch Cesar! Alpha roll him!' Never, ever.
Soooo, how do we get rid of the stupid people? :D

Actually, I enjoy sitting in a semi-darkened room, wearing my personally autographed by Cesar t-shirt, lighting candles, and slowly swaying back and forth with a glazed over look on my face, chanting "Ce-sar, Ce-sar, Ce-sar"...as one of his episodes plays softly in the background.

Dig up the old thread Bridey started about Cesar and his "Methods straight from hell" a few months ago, if you want to know how I REALLY feel. :cool:
 

IliamnasQuest

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#17
I haven't had much opportunity to view his shows but I've seen a bit (no cable TV out here in the boonies). I'm also concerned that people will attempt his methods without having any background in understanding behavior - and they will get hurt. When they have to preface the show with things like "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME" then you know that the measures are extreme in a sense and could result in some huge problems.

I also understand that what we see on TV is just a tiny bit of the actual handling he does with these dogs. He does a lot of "off-camera" work and that of course will make a huge difference. What he's doing is kind of a "quick fix" and it works for the moment, but without consistent work it doesn't last.

I can walk into a training class and take the dog with the worst behavior and within a very short time have them watching me, walking calmly by my side and listening - with NO corrective collar. It's partly a learned ability and partly a natural ability. My timing is great, I know how to work with a dog's temperament and natural dominance level, and I know how to be dominant without being forceful. This is another area where I have a problem with Cesar. He uses quite a bit of correction and again that's because he's doing a quick fix for the sake of the television cameras.

The concepts of being "alpha" are very important, and they're a lifetime commitment. The only way I manage to live with five bitches in the house is that I MUST be the alpha bitch of the group. I control every aspect of their lives. Just tonight I was leaning over and hugging on my chows. All three of them were pushing against me and weaving through my legs and leaning on each other. I had my arms around the two oldest ones, squeezing them together - and yet just a few years ago these two were fighting to the point of injury to them and to me. This is the result of a true alpha status - dogs that can live together peacefully under consistent and yet fair rules.

Milan sets up his alpha status a bit rougher than I do. But that's primarily what he does. It's not a miracle, he's not a "whisperer", he's just a guy with a really dominant nature who has found a way to make some money by impressing people with little true knowledge of dog behavior.

Oh - and NILIF is a very valid thing. It SHOULD be used on most dogs, to some extent.
 

pup-man

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#18
I think he is good in what he does. Most people we see on his show have already been through another trainer of some sort and usualy calls Ceaser as a last resort.
 

Angelique

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#19
IliamnasQuest said:
he's not a "whisperer", he's just a guy with a really dominant nature who has found a way to make some money by impressing people with little true knowledge of dog behavior.
Actually, the term "whisperer" is a generally accepted term, used to describe someone who relates to an animal through understanding how they think and communicate, in the animals own language and forms of communication.

This is what Cesar does.

If you see what he is doing, as forced based old school training, then you don't "get it". Most of what he does is not "training", and involves clearly letting a dog know what he wants, rather than "shaping" behaviors.

Can I ask what training methods you use? :)
 

rottnpagan

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#20
Angelique said:
Soooo, how do we get rid of the stupid people? :D

Actually, I enjoy sitting in a semi-darkened room, wearing my personally autographed by Cesar t-shirt, lighting candles, and slowly swaying back and forth with a glazed over look on my face, chanting "Ce-sar, Ce-sar, Ce-sar"...as one of his episodes plays softly in the background.

Dig up the old thread Bridey started about Cesar and his "Methods straight from hell" a few months ago, if you want to know how I REALLY feel. :cool:
LMFAO!!!
 

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