Ceasr Milon came up in topic today during a group discussion

smkie

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#1
ANd I tried to explain why I don't believe in his methods but am at a loss for back up links to prove the point. So I thought I would start this thread to see If I can gather up information from the best sources I know, which is you all. If you have something to put in the pot for me to take with me next time, it is just so hard to explain in a few minutes or less. I would like for the greater good of all to explain why those methods can backfire.
 

smkie

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#3
I find it so hard when in a small group of people that don't know me to start with, to find the right words to express such a huge thing. Trust is everything to me, and in my relationships with dogs, it is the epic top of the top of the top. See....no words, yes he does get results. but for all the wrong reasons and it can never be what it could have been, for the right reasons. I can't think of how to explain what it is like to hand Pepper's leash to a baby boy just turned two, and know the baby walker dog that was once I believe trained by a leash popping, negative reinforcement person before me and had given up on humanity as a whole. SHe walked my grandson with the utmost duty and pride. My other grandson kept teasing her saying stop..and I am saying stop that...because she does on a dime. This run away door dodging dog that took an entire summer with tons of help from Victor and Mary, to blossom. SHe never tangles the leash in the legs, she never reacts to anything but her tiny charge, and she goes so very slow. This baby is her 4th baby <3 to help teach street rules to. After all they have to take her to the side of the road when those cars we listen for are coming and we have to hold so still. They don't know it is she, taking them.
I know I am preaching to the choir, but dang, we all know that so many dogs have died that didn't have to because imho they are just smarter than that and are never going to respond to anything less but absolute respect.
I am going to suggest that if anyone IS actually interested in not Loving that show and that man, to check out the training that is going on at KC PET PROJECT. IT's like stepping out of the dark ages.

Mostly they will think I am nuts. So thank you ever so much for the link, and I will give it a go in two weeks and see what happens. Even changing one mind will make it worth the effort.
 
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#4
show people a well trained dog and people will want to know how you do it. Tell them their "way" is wrong and they'll most likely see you and your dog as outsiders to pick apart whenever they can. It's how people are.
 

smkie

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#5
There is one episode where the two danes learn to get in the swimming pool that would have made my old boss roll over in his grave.
I think that was the last one I ever watched. I thought he had passed away but found out when I came home last night and looked it up that I was wrong, and these people said he has a new show coming out.

I worked with one dog that took a long tme of respecting his space, and letting him come to me and it did eventually turn out as I had hoped. Never a growl or a bite when the leash was first put on. I never pushed. I sat on an upturned feed bucket and sang lullybyes looking at the concrete inches from the door, and not at him after feeding time and would pick up my bucket and walk away day after day. Of course, that doenst' make good tv does it. Months, but when it was right it was right, and that bond was set.

THat dog liked the song Scarlet Ribbons and each time eased up just a little more. I truly believe if I had rushed him even a little, it would have been an epic fail.

I sent out the links. Will see. The first time "their way" I thought you meant the dog's way and I thought it was brilliant. That is why I wrote what I wrote which when I went back made no sense, you meant the people's way. With Pepper and so many others I have had the pleasure to work with, it really was their way or no way.
 
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Snark

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#6
I dunno... maybe ask them what their worst, most phobic fear is, like snakes or spiders, then ask them to imagine a person who doesn't speak their language, comes up and decides to 'cure' them of their fear by immersing them in snakes or spiders. He won't let them out until they stop fighting, crying, screaming, etc. Are they cured or just too traumatized to move? Then ask them how it's any better when Cesar does that to a dog who's afraid of wood floors, swimming pools, etc.
 

smkie

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#7
exactly!
My old boss had three rules for a puppy...which really applies to all since all are puppies at heart. Always make sure they are having 50 percent of the fun, Always leave them wanting more, and Never give a cue you don't inforce. Training sessions were short, fun and repetitive, each lesson building on the one before , If the dog isn't having fun, were to put the dog away and find out what YOU were doing wrong. THat is how I grew up, and I am grateful for that education.
 
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